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Offlinefloatingnoodles
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Thinking about growing some khat?
    #19336334 - 12/28/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have researched khat for a bit and was considering giving it a go, but I have a few questions.

1) Are there any serious health hazards I should be aware of (in your opinion)? I have read quite a bit about it. Some of the health risks sound serious, but it seems most people chalk them off as insignificant, poorly researched, or propaganda related. What are your thoughts?

2) I read on one forum that this plant only becomes active after approximately 3 years. At which point they take cuttings and replant them (not sure why this step is necessary). This typically tacks on 2 more years. Is this all true?

3) This plant seems to be grown in very hot areas. Will it be able to survive cold weather and a couple snow storms if cuttings are planted outside?

4) My understanding is that this plant is legal in most countries, but the alkaloid it contains is not legal. Is this correct?
It seems to be a bit of a gray area.

Any experience from growers is appreciated. Thanks!


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Offlinehookahhead
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: floatingnoodles] * 1
    #19336522 - 12/28/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A few of us around here have this plant in our collection.  I raised mine from seed and it's a little over 18 months old.  Slow growing until about 6-8 months old, then takes off.  I've chewed a few leaves when I brought it in for the winter this year, believe I had a mild effect but could have been placebo.  The effects reportedly are not as pronounced as one would imagine and is often equated to a strong cup of coffee.  Beautiful plant non the less.



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Offlinefloatingnoodles
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: hookahhead]
    #19336903 - 12/28/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hookahhead said:
A few of us around here have this plant in our collection.  I raised mine from seed and it's a little over 18 months old.  Slow growing until about 6-8 months old, then takes off.  I've chewed a few leaves when I brought it in for the winter this year, believe I had a mild effect but could have been placebo.  The effects reportedly are not as pronounced as one would imagine and is often equated to a strong cup of coffee.  Beautiful plant non the less.







Thanks for the reply. Your plants look awesome :smile:.

Is that narrow leaf khat? I hear that's the most potent and provides a bit of intoxication as well as stimulation. I haven't read much about mixing it with other substances, so I don't know the safety profile, but I read something about steeping the leaves in a red wine. That might be an interesting way for you to see if it is currently active. I'm sure if you steeped a good amount of leaves for some time you would get some effects if the plant were even slightly active.

If the bit about 5 years until active is true, maybe I'll just try picking up a cutting on the marketplace. Although, I suppose I wouldn't mind waiting and growing from seed.

I think my attraction to plants like this is the idea of just sitting in my backyard and having something to chew/keep in my cheek. I don't chew tobacco, so it doesn't leave many options. I picked up some kratom for fresh leaves to chew and am now considering picking up some khat. Both of these don't taste the best, but that doesn't really bother me. It also looks like a pretty cool plant to add to my collection.

Thanks for your help!


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: floatingnoodles] * 1
    #19337976 - 12/28/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Khat tastes a lot better than kratom. It's definitely not as bitter and the new growth in Spring can be quite sweet.


Quote:

1) Are there any serious health hazards I should be aware of (in your opinion)? I have read quite a bit about it. Some of the health risks sound serious, but it seems most people chalk them off as insignificant, poorly researched, or propaganda related. What are your thoughts?




None that I can think of except if you have a weak heart it would probably be best not to use. The stories of adverse effects relate to the areas where this is traditionally used. It seems some people can get caught up in the high and devote their life to chasing it instead of working and looking after families. It's probably the only drug available there so of course there's a few habitual addicts around. All people I know who use it are responsible adults and maintain productive lifestyles.



Quote:

2) I read on one forum that this plant only becomes active after approximately 3 years. At which point they take cuttings and replant them (not sure why this step is necessary). This typically tacks on 2 more years. Is this all true?




More or less. The plant takes some time to develop enough alkaloids and also to grow enough to sustain harvesting the tips. They take cuttings at that age because once rooted they have the same alkaloid profile as the mother plant, a genetic replica aka. A clone. This saves time having to grow them from seed and wait until they're ready to use.



Quote:

3) This plant seems to be grown in very hot areas. Will it be able to survive cold weather and a couple snow storms if cuttings are planted outside?





They can handle frost and temps to 0c but not sure about snow. I don't think they'd cope too well with that.


Quote:

4) My understanding is that this plant is legal in most countries, but the alkaloid it contains is not legal. Is this correct?
It seems to be a bit of a gray area.





Yes. Depending on your local laws it's either totally outlawed or allowed to grow but not use. Or you can grow and use. You need to check this.


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Offlinefloatingnoodles
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: karode13]
    #19338062 - 12/28/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

karode13 said:
Khat tastes a lot better than kratom. It's definitely not as bitter and the new growth in Spring can be quite sweet.


Quote:

1) Are there any serious health hazards I should be aware of (in your opinion)? I have read quite a bit about it. Some of the health risks sound serious, but it seems most people chalk them off as insignificant, poorly researched, or propaganda related. What are your thoughts?




None that I can think of except if you have a weak heart it would probably be best not to use. The stories of adverse effects relate to the areas where this is traditionally used. It seems some people can get caught up in the high and devote their life to chasing it instead of working and looking after families. It's probably the only drug available there so of course there's a few habitual addicts around. All people I know who use it are responsible adults and maintain productive lifestyles.



Quote:

2) I read on one forum that this plant only becomes active after approximately 3 years. At which point they take cuttings and replant them (not sure why this step is necessary). This typically tacks on 2 more years. Is this all true?




More or less. The plant takes some time to develop enough alkaloids and also to grow enough to sustain harvesting the tips. They take cuttings at that age because once rooted they have the same alkaloid profile as the mother plant, a genetic replica aka. A clone. This saves time having to grow them from seed and wait until they're ready to use.



Quote:

3) This plant seems to be grown in very hot areas. Will it be able to survive cold weather and a couple snow storms if cuttings are planted outside?




.
They can handle frost and temps to 0c but not sure about snow. I don't think they'd cope too well wit that.


Quote:

4) My understanding is that this plant is legal in most countries, but the alkaloid it contains is not legal. Is this correct?
It seems to be a bit of a gray area.





Yes. Depending on your local laws it's either totally outlawed or allowed to grow but not use. Or you can grow and use. You need to check this.



Thanks for the detailed reply

1) Many said it was less addictive than coffee, tobbacco and alcohol, so it doesn't seem like it would be too addictive if used responsibly.

2) Ah that makes sense. This forum made it seem like you HAD to take cuttings before consumption (which I didn't understand why you couldn't just eat from the mother plant), but now I understand they were just trying to clone plants.

3) Good to know. I'll have to keep it potted and indoors.

4)I have done some research and I was unable to find any information for my area. Thus, I assume I won't run into any trouble.


I think I'll try to find a mature cutting on the marketplace. I'm interested in the narrow leaf variety because it is said to be the most potent, thus allowing for a lower amount of leaf to be chewed. Am I correct in the assumption that narrow leaf is the most potent? I've pulled most of my knowledge from online forums. Despite being so popular in several countries, Khat doesn't seem to have nearly the online following/information that kava/kratom have.

Thanks again.


Edited by floatingnoodles (12/28/13 06:08 PM)


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: floatingnoodles]
    #19339089 - 12/28/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's a beautiful plant and kinda tastes funny. I don't think it will survive much frost if any.


--------------------
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it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlinesemaphore
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: nicechrisman] * 1
    #19339279 - 12/28/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



That is mine, it just seeded so have a few seedlings going and i took cuttings so have those rooting as well.

Close up off base as you can see multiple other plants coming out as well.



Edited by semaphore (12/28/13 10:29 PM)


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19339339 - 12/28/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
It's a beautiful plant and kinda tastes funny. I don't think it will survive much frost if any.





They do survive light frosts. Probably not young plants, of course, but older ones take it with no problems. The new growth may get scorched but the older leaves below don't get fazed.


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: floatingnoodles]
    #19340319 - 12/29/13 05:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I had a couple plants many moons ago.  But they ended up drying out over the winter.  It was random and I was a newb.


Edited by Corporal Kielbasa (12/30/13 12:47 AM)


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OfflineMrdbrewer
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19340347 - 12/29/13 05:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Im not too sure but if youre in the uk it could e illegal but i dont know if tis just one of those drugs of caution or like coca plants where they are actually illegal


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: Mrdbrewer]
    #19340422 - 12/29/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nearly but not quite illegal here yet.

Government's response to the advice on khat provided by the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs.

Quote:

The Government has now laid the draft legislation before Parliament for the control of khat to come into force across the UK in early 2014.




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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #19340483 - 12/29/13 06:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What a stupid thing to make illegal. I really don't see the abuse potential other than it being a cultural phenomenon among some ethnic groups.


--------------------
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it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

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Offlinefloatingnoodles
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19341159 - 12/29/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

karode13 said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
It's a beautiful plant and kinda tastes funny. I don't think it will survive much frost if any.





They do survive light frosts. Probably not young plants, of course, but older ones take it with no problems. The new growth may get scorched but the older leaves below don't get fazed.



Thanks. I'll be keeping it indoors.


Quote:

semaphore said:


That is mine, it just seeded so have a few seedlings going and i took cuttings so have those rooting as well.

Close up off base as you can see multiple other plants coming out as well.





Your plants look great :smile:. Do you find your khat to be pretty active?



Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:
I had a couple plants many moons ago.  But they ended up drying out over the winter.



Sorry to hear that :frown:



Quote:

Mostly_Harmless said:
Nearly but not quite illegal here yet.

Government's response to the advice on khat provided by the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs.

Quote:

The Government has now laid the draft legislation before Parliament for the control of khat to come into force across the UK in early 2014.






Thanks for the heads up. Regardless, I'm not in the UK.

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
What a stupid thing to make illegal. I really don't see the abuse potential other than it being a cultural phenomenon among some ethnic groups.




Agreed. It sounds like there is very little research and a lot of politics involved in the decision :frown:


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: floatingnoodles]
    #19342219 - 12/29/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)


here is mine. She is alot older and in the ground now. They pretty easy to grow. This one has survived this years cold temps. More to come but its a survivor


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Posts: 11,017
Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #19342234 - 12/29/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:

here is mine. She is alot older and in the ground now. They pretty easy to grow. This one has survived this years cold temps. More to come but its a survivor




Awesome!


Edited by KBG1977 (12/29/13 07:10 PM)


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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: floatingnoodles]
    #19346451 - 12/30/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

floatingnoodles said:
1) Are there any serious health hazards I should be aware of (in your opinion)? I have read quite a bit about it. Some of the health risks sound serious, but it seems most people chalk them off as insignificant, poorly researched, or propaganda related. What are your thoughts?



I think much of it is propaganda rooted in deluded paternalistic religious superiority and furthered by medical sensationalism. I think only serious routine use--which is not attainable without a commercial operation--poses significant health risks and even then only likely to people with pre-existing heart conditions. Of course there is some secondary risk of people doing stupid things like driving on dangerous developing world roads after many hours awake fueled by Catha consumption. That is actually a big problem in Eastern Africa.

Cathinones are very similar to amphetamines, but keep in mind that chewing khat is more mild than taking an amphetamine. It's like chewing coca leaves vs. railing cocaine. I will add the caveat that in refined form cathinones by all accounts are more addictive than amphetamines. Nevertheless, I'd say that the chance of khat abuse outside of the few countries where it is widely cultivated and consumed is exceedingly low.

Quote:

2) I read on one forum that this plant only becomes active after approximately 3 years. At which point they take cuttings and replant them (not sure why this step is necessary). This typically tacks on 2 more years. Is this all true?



The plant is definitely active before 3 years though not suited to commercial production/harvesting practices until that time. There are many myths revolving around cultivation. Commercial khat farmers maintained for a very long time that khat did not go to seed. Many thought that khat seed was not very viable. The few that did know that khat produced viable seed said that the plants would be worthless for use. The Western hobby community has been dispelling many of these myths though it has perpetuated some of them.

Quote:

3) This plant seems to be grown in very hot areas. Will it be able to survive cold weather and a couple snow storms if cuttings are planted outside?



Not all areas that it is grown in are very hot, but it will not tolerate much more than a light frost. I have seen plants thrive in relatively cool Mediterranean style climates which are free of heavy frosts. Fortunately they can be overwintered inside as a houseplant without too much trouble.

Quote:

4) My understanding is that this plant is legal in most countries, but the alkaloid it contains is not legal. Is this correct?
It seems to be a bit of a gray area.



The plant is legal in many countries. It's legal status is a bit of a gray area in the US. The plant is not specifically scheduled but make no mistake the DEA considers it a de facto container of cathninone and thus illegal. They hassled nurseries that were still selling the plant in the late 1990s. At least one US state has made the plant itself illegal.


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OfflinetheMallacht
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #19347094 - 12/30/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:

here is mine. She is alot older and in the ground now. They pretty easy to grow. This one has survived this years cold temps. More to come but its a survivor




Is this from that bunch of cuttings that I sent you years ago?


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: theMallacht]
    #19347144 - 12/30/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This is th kbg strain:lol: I got it from him years ago. Ig a lot bigger now.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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OfflinetheMallacht
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Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: ferrel_human]
    #19347271 - 12/30/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, looks nice. It looks a lot like mine.


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InvisibleKBG1977
Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 11,017
Re: Thinking about growing some khat? [Re: theMallacht]
    #19348342 - 12/30/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So it was my strain,didn't know if you caught that the first time around:grin:


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