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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
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Loc: straya
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: cez]
#19334675 - 12/27/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enlightenment might be obsoleted by your own ability and effort to get the most out of life anyway.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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Thecrimson
Stranger
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: circastes]
#19334820 - 12/27/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enlightenment isn't obtained, just felt momentarily. And know that the state of enlightenment is ineffable, it is literally unable to be described in words.
"The word enlightenment conjures up the idea of some superhuman accomplishment, and the ego likes to keep it that way, but it is simply your natural state of felt oneness with Being. It is a state of connectedness with something immeasurable and indestructible, something that, almost paradoxically, is essentially you and yet is much greater than you. It is finding your true nature beyond name and form."
My personal description of it is something like this... Picture a clean white wall. If you look at it, you don't know where on that wall to focus, since it's all that one wall. But if I make a mark on the wall, suddenly that's all you can focus on, something has manifested, there is now duality. Our thoughts are just like that mark on the wall, a possibility that has been chosen. A blank wall(a clear mind with no thoughts, notions, preconceptions, labels etc) is all possibility, like a graph with no points marked, it is oneness. Consciousness is like the canvas that a painting is painted on. The paint on the canvas being no different than thoughts. So in this way, you realize that thought is limiting, because it only highlights one thing out of nearly infinite possibilities. It is like the outer edge of a fractal, the leaf or outer branch of a tree...or another way I like to think about it, boulders in a stream keeping it from flowing as one unit. It is an obstruction to true/pure subjective and impartial thought.
Edited by Thecrimson (12/27/13 10:41 PM)
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Thecrimson]
#19334884 - 12/27/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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that's nice writing 
the marks, or thoughts in our case, fade away pretty quickly though. but that clean white wall remains. so are those marks really ever on the wall?
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Deviate]
#19335635 - 12/28/13 05:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Well I seek to not be in pain so I guess I'm not enlightened yet. I'll have to settle for my daily fix. It's coming on right now and I'm in a stellar mood so this is for you dear one. 
Its natural to seek not to be pain. This is called concupiscence in CHristianity and it is the desire for good. Humans innately desire to feel good.
concupiscence has been understood to be the tendency toward sin but the Catholic Church teaches that its actually simply the desire for good and this leads us to sin when we act with an ignorant understanding of what will really bring us good.
The more enlightened you are, the more you understood what will really bring you what you really want, which is enduring happiness, free from misery. So enlightenment is the end of misery caused by ignorance, certainly a goal worth striving for.
An enlightened being seeks to not be in pain either. Only an enlightened being does not think "when this pain is gone, then I will be happy". An enlightened being is very happy despite the pain and then when the pain is gone, he is even happier. So there is no seeking in the sense of looking toward the fiture for happiness, but there is seeking in the sense of goal oriented action.
seeking happiness is still seeking. Even so; "even the best intentions may sire the greatest horrors".. that, I was supprised for knowledge cristiqnity would hold.. but then again, the vampires ought to know their magick too, right?
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Icyus]
#19335935 - 12/28/13 08:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said: I cannot really put my finger on what it really is...
because that's what it is 
or so my finger says
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soldatheero
lastirishman


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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Icyus]
#19336381 - 12/28/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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A simple way of explaining enlightenment is to say it is the final state of consciousness in which the soul becomes reality and truth.
Enlightenment is when the soul experiences only it's own self completely independently of the phenomenal universe. Contrary to popular belief enlightened souls do not live in this world, instead when a human being becomes enlightened they actually lose consciousness of the physical universe. This is because the physical universe is discovered to be an illusion that is generated by ones own soul. The enlightened soul experiences only its own self.. which in truth is the real substance of reality.
This final experience of reality is not temporal, it is not an experience in time. This is because the experience of time is dependent upon the phenomenal universe of cause and effect and as stated, the god-realized soul does not experience the universe but only it's own self. It exists independently of time and space.
The Quote:
sole purpose of creation is for the soul to enjoy the infinite state of the Oversoul consciously. Although the soul eternally exists in and with the Oversoul in an inviolable unity, it cannot be conscious of this unity independently of creation, which is within the limitations of time. It must therefore evolve consciousness before it can realize its true status and nature as being identical with the infinite Oversoul, which is one without a second. The evolution of consciousness requires the duality of subject and object — the center of consciousness and the environment (that is, the world of forms).
The very reason enlightenment is FREEDOM is because the soul no longer has any times to the physical universe which is bound by law. To have desires bound up with the physical universe means to be bound by its laws.
The key to understanding this is you must first come to view reality as the self.. our existence is the substance of reality, we are reality itself.. how could we be separate?
-------------------- ..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
soldatheero said: The key to understanding this is you must first come to view reality as the self.. our existence is the substance of reality, we are reality itself.. how could we be separate?
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Chronic7]
#19336412 - 12/28/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If it is what I though it was.. this sense of flowing the aetherius, just simply being.. the almighty everything and nothing.. then I got out of this head and looked inwards, to the core.. cracking open the schell there were love and happiness, a lion of fire and then there was fears and suffering and pain and then nothing, as the manifestations of pain balckened into nothingness.. and then I started sensing variations in nothingness.. that not only was impossible to put into speach, but neither visualizable as the nothingness had been... Then I wonder.. where to put enlightenment in all this... is it past, present or future, I wonder... after many words I have heard, I am.. but then again.. how could someone who has never been enlightened know what they speak of.. what a fool I am.. asking the brush to paint a picture...
I used to be man.. then I was absolete. Then I was God and so I am indescribable... and now another wqy of indescibablility.. after countless variations... these words leave me in an other indescribable state.. I cannot speak too much profetic... furthermore, noone would be able to comprehend it...
these words are useless... how can I know? Maybe stop asking you guys would be a good start.. off asking the spirits then..
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Icyus]
#19338374 - 12/28/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's this really awesome experience that I've had and you haven't. Best experience possible. Words can't even describe it. It makes me feel superior to you and hopefully makes you feel like I have something that you want. Will you be my follower?
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Roger Wilco
Rusted Identifier

Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 970
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Quote:
nicechrisman said: It's this really awesome experience that I've had and you haven't. Best experience possible. Words can't even describe it. It makes me feel superior to you and hopefully makes you feel like I have something that you want. Will you be my follower?
Yes! Sounds great! I will follow! but only if you take my money distort my ability to create my own perspectives.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
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<<When someone trancends desire and suffering>>
indeed we are then.
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
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Quote:
Roger Wilco said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said: It's this really awesome experience that I've had and you haven't. Best experience possible. Words can't even describe it. It makes me feel superior to you and hopefully makes you feel like I have something that you want. Will you be my follower?
Yes! Sounds great! I will follow! but only if you take my money distort my ability to create my own perspectives.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
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enlightenment is the element of surprise
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Sse]
#19343537 - 12/29/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Thecrimson
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/13
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Sse]
#19344653 - 12/30/13 02:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's about removing all ideas about anything. Everything in our mind is separated into categories, this thread is in a category which is in a category which is on a forum which is on a website which is on the internet etc etc. It's almost like realizing the highest category possible. The category that encompasses everything. When you remove your focus from any one thing at a time you focus on everything. Like a said, a graph with no plots, when there are no coordinates marked, you realize the entire graph, it all becomes one. When you realize our minds are always focused on one thing or another, everything becomes that one graph.
Enlightenment is this experiencing the pointless graph. Look at this picture.. See the large part of the river on the right? This is the best way I can describe the thoughtless/perceptionless feeling. When I was fully one it felt like I had a fountain of ideas in my head, like nothing was being filitered. The 'river' of my mind was being allowed to flow completely freely without disruption of fragmentation of thoughts(where the river splits). Within that 1 main river flow contains everything, as the river split's it contains less and less. Just like as we think, we perceive less and less, we focus on subjects which then have subcategories within subcategories. The 1 main river flow is the pointless graph, the different veins are plots on the graph. There was something behind thoughts in our head, something separate from the 'thinker', it's where the thinker thinks.
I know it sounds weird, and doesn't seem to imply much, but there is where the inability to really describe it limits me. And I don't say it's indescribable to make it sound dramatic, I mean it is literally non-compatable with words, because words can't be applied to something without fragmenting it. This is where I bring science in, how can you expect science to explain what can't be put into words when science uses words?
As far as peace. Peace is just the natural flow of things, it's a system working flawlessly and as designed. It's the main river flowing freely and undisturbed. It is the way things are supposed to work. It's not that disharmony can't or doesn't happen, but it is disruptive. Therefore, since thoughts are the things that fragment the river, they disturb peace. 'Thoughts' being beliefs, preconceptions, ideas about things, labels etc. The thoughts that separate and categorize things.
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Quote:
nicechrisman said:
Quote:
Roger Wilco said:
Quote:
nicechrisman said: It's this really awesome experience that I've had and you haven't. Best experience possible. Words can't even describe it. It makes me feel superior to you and hopefully makes you feel like I have something that you want. Will you be my follower?
Yes! Sounds great! I will follow! but only if you take my money distort my ability to create my own perspectives.

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Thecrimson
Stranger
Registered: 10/21/13
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Thecrimson]
#19344974 - 12/30/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Haven't checked out Robert Wolfe before, thanks!
edit:
Got a good vibe from this guy
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Edited by Chronic7 (12/31/13 05:13 AM)
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Sammysong
Dreamer



Registered: 09/09/12
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Chronic7]
#19353854 - 01/01/14 07:01 AM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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The one who is trying to find out who he is, is a mere puppet. To him, he is a person; empowered by volition and in control of his destiny. In truth, he is an appearance in consciousness – and phenomena can have no freedom. He thinks he is living his life – not knowing that every choice and every act, he himself and all else, is governed by the hands of the totality.
In other words, he is ignorant to the fact that as such, he is being lived.
He believes that he can be enlightened. But he can’t – for he is nothing but a cluster of sensations. Visual, tactile and auditory phenomena are construed into a “body” by an act of conceptualizing, which is the functioning whereby objects are fabricated in the mind. Where there is nothing but fleeting sensations, “he” is conjured up by thought.
Colors, sensations and thoughts, which is all that he is, cannot be enlightened - only a person could, and there is none.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: what is enlightenment? [Re: Icyus]
#19353978 - 01/01/14 08:43 AM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said: That is quite the problem I posess then.. I have expereanced many stages of absoluteness and cannot know which would be enlightenment.. or if i havent expereanced it yet.. thus I ask help in defining it...
maybe when you stop defining everything
just relax, that is pretty pleasant in nature
but my word is as good as yours, nobody would know what enlightenment really is words are imperfect IMO
buddhists often say when you realize buddha-nature all suffering ends no problems, no suffering for if you control your thoughts you control it all
I wouldnt call it enlightenment myself, for there would be no reason to be on earth if you were fully enlightened likely maybe just fully realized being, but still growing
seems I am here because I cannot accept ;-) have a purpose I have to do
if you have realized yourself you would probably know who you are, why you are here same inside always
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