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InvisibleMushmitch
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Registered: 01/26/13
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No PC Rye lime soak.. UPDATED 1/18/14 * 1
    #19327591 - 12/26/13 03:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

12/26/13!


So I saw somewhere the idea of soaking rye in lime and it got me thinkin if we could get the RYE GRAIN hydrated with high ph water could it stand up to contams 

Plan is to use yellow oyster rye spawn

so I am trying out a sawdust lime soak, coffee lime soak and rye soak. gonna see what I can come up with ..

If anyone has any links or info to add on this pls do...

so I soaked coffee grounds for 24 hrs then pressed till field capacity. spawned 4 quarts to about 30 lbs of coffee.

I then accidentally spilled half of the contents on the ground for an out door experiment.

I picked up what I could and put it in a old dirty flower pot....  :laugh:
so I was left with 15 lbs of coffee in a fabric like bag and I have it sitting and colonizing.

Now I'm soaking only a few cups of rye grain in a very high ph water. I am going to soak it for about 17-24 hrs.
Then boil till hydrated, let cool and G2G with yellow oyster.

Also trying rye seed tonight just boiling in lime water then cooling and spawn. Will post with results and pics.


                first we have the rye grain...                                                                  then the rye seed.

soaked and boiled/drained. spawned with yellow oyster tonight                  only boiled/drained spawned 1 qt Yellow oyster to 3 jars


So here is my update..12/29/13





This is rye grain and seed only soaked/boiled in lime water. and coffee only soaked in lime water.. 3 DAYS OLD

The mycelium I used for these was partially fermented so I would expect better results..

Although I used a lot of spawn to this coffee 4Quarts to about 20 Quarts. This seems promising.

1/2/13
UPDATE

Sorry bad pic but mycelium has moved through the jar but is wispy due to too much moisture.
Rye grain seemed to stall going to try a again with lower ph.

Lime on coffee seemed to hold back cobweb and green mold long enough to colonize, will update if and when fruits. .
Still no contams on rye grain or seed.. going to try drying better after boil... doin new batch now

1/4/13


Mycelium has moved through the jar
but is too wet. No contams even tho
it may look like it :smile:


Here is the new rye seed. I allowed this to sit in open air after boiling/straining for 24 hours to let
it dry then I put it on a paper towel to absorb extra moisture.  I inoculated with same oyster spawn.
And here is a pic of the fruits from this mycelium . NOT FRUITS FROM EXPERIMENT.

UPDATE:1/8


only one jar showing growth so far.

Looks to be a success!!!!1/16


These pics were from 3 days ago. I'm gonna spawn to bag of straw!!


--------------------
All the kids will eat it up if its Packaged properly.


Edited by Mushmitch (01/18/14 03:21 PM)


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InvisibleMObeek
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Registered: 03/24/13
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: Mushmitch]
    #19327814 - 12/26/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Looking forward to your updates on how your experiment progresses.


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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: MObeek]
    #19328087 - 12/26/13 09:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What will you do after the soak?

Just put them in bags or in jars without pc?

:popcorn:


--------------------
I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: Ganzig]
    #19330212 - 12/26/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's what I'm curious about... are you planning on using this as an alternative to PC sterilization of grain spawn?


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisibleuncle_rico
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: Mushmitch]
    #19330214 - 12/26/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A hydrated Lime soak (high ph 'pasteurization')is great for bulk substrates.

Sterilize your grain spawn.


--------------------


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: uncle_rico]
    #19330262 - 12/26/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

uncle_rico said:
A hydrated Lime soak (high ph 'pasteurization')is great for bulk substrates.

Sterilize your grain spawn.




:whathesaid:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlineloggrower
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: Forrester]
    #19331390 - 12/27/13 01:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just sterilize when it comes to spawn... Sterilized substrate colonizes multiple times faster and more aggressively.

I did some cross comparison testing... Making fresh cut sawdust (From a cut log a few feet long and aged a month), spawning it in a quart jar with pearl spawn... No sterilization. No contamination, but the stuff takes AGES to thicken up. Not even sure it will thicken up properly!


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InvisibleMushmitch
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: loggrower]
    #19333074 - 12/27/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ok enough with your just use a PC and sterilize crap...

the point is to skip some steps because some people don't  have access to utilities where I live, we need to grow mushrooms naturally..

so yes plan is soak for 24 hours in 9+ ph water then boil in ph water till hydrated put in jars to cool and inoculate..

it just any experiment so if you don't have anything to add besides DONT DO IT then please move on.

im doing this with sawdust and coffee today soak time is going to be 8 hours first.


--------------------
All the kids will eat it up if its Packaged properly.


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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: loggrower]
    #19333142 - 12/27/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

loggrower said:
Sterilized substrate colonizes multiple times faster and more aggressively.






Strange. I have experienced the exact opposite of this. It may be true of
grains. :shrug:

What do you grow loggrower?

Pasteurizing increases colonizing times for me. Back in the day when I was
playing with coffee grounds the sterilized grounds went at a snails pace
to colonize but the pasteurized coffee would colonize really quickly.

Pretty sure that is always true. I have a less then 5% contam rate and I
make a lot of straw bags for my business. Every week I go through about
half a bail of straw. Never sterilized. My fastest colonization time so far
has been 3 days.


I would like to see what you come up with OP.

:popcorn:


--------------------
I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this.


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Offlineforrest
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: Ganzig]
    #19333172 - 12/27/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

there is a ''eco'' wood treatment called PLATO (here in holland in the city Arnhem they use it), wich mainly consists of using huge (think truck size) autoclaves to pressurcook the wood for a long time, i think a few days, so that the polysaccharides ''carammelize'' and will be harder for fungi to digest, also the wood will not take up more that 18% moisture (if i remember correctly), wich will prevent molding or bacterial growth.

this could be true to a (very) small extent for pressurecooking sawdust/wood chips.


--------------------
My Trade List


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OfflineAnarchoV
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: forrest]
    #19333372 - 12/27/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/5190/Do-I-need-a-pressure-cooker-if-I-want-to-prepare-grains

I have heard of people using microwaves to nuke grains.


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Offlinedrake89
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Registered: 06/26/11
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: forrest]
    #19333575 - 12/27/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

forrest said:
there is a ''eco'' wood treatment called PLATO (here in holland in the city Arnhem they use it), wich mainly consists of using huge (think truck size) autoclaves to pressurcook the wood for a long time, i think a few days, so that the polysaccharides ''carammelize'' and will be harder for fungi to digest, also the wood will not take up more that 18% moisture (if i remember correctly), wich will prevent molding or bacterial growth.

this could be true to a (very) small extent for pressurecooking sawdust/wood chips.




very interesting!


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


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Invisible404
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: drake89]
    #19333577 - 12/27/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

why hydrated lyme and not pulverized lime?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: 404]
    #19333619 - 12/27/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

StateOfMind404 said:
why hydrated lyme and not pulverized lime?




they are different chemicals.


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


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Offlineloggrower
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: drake89]
    #19333997 - 12/27/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yep, if you over sterilize colonization will be slow. Quarts for 50 minutes at 15.5PSI does the job perfectly.


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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: loggrower]
    #19334103 - 12/27/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

loggrower said:
Sterilized substrate colonizes multiple times faster and more aggressively.





Quote:

loggrower said:
Yep, if you over sterilize colonization will be slow. Quarts for 50 minutes at 15.5PSI does the job perfectly.





You confound me sir.



Also, using a large 41.5 quart all american filled with 15 quart jars will not be sterile after 50mins. You need 90 mins.


--------------------
I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this.


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Invisible404
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: drake89]
    #19334241 - 12/27/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

StateOfMind404 said:
why hydrated lyme and not pulverized lime?




they are different chemicals.





yep, calcium hydroxide vs calcium carbonate.

so,


why calcium hydroxide and not calcium carbonate?

calcium carbonate (agricultural lime) increases ph, and if i'm thinking correctly, is why you use it in conjunction with coir because it is slightly acidic.

Calcium hydroxide is also a base, and used for the same purposes.


why one over the other? i have had good results with pulverized limestone


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: 404]
    #19334496 - 12/27/13 08:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

calcium carbonate is a weak base, calcium hydroxide is a strong base.


--------------------
Fiery Fungi (like us on faeboo)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: Ganzig]
    #19334843 - 12/27/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ganzig said:
Quote:

loggrower said:
Sterilized substrate colonizes multiple times faster and more aggressively.






Strange. I have experienced the exact opposite of this. It may be true of
grains. :shrug:





Gonna have to agree with Ganzig here.  I thought it was pretty well known that supplemented substrates take longer to colonize/fruit than pasteurized, unsupplemented.

Now if you're just talking about grain spawn, yeah I could see it colonizing more quickly when it's not fighting off contamination from being only pasteurized.  Is that what you meant LG?


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleAleon
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Re: Rye lime soak.. [Re: Forrester]
    #19335907 - 12/28/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Ganzig said:
Quote:

loggrower said:
Sterilized substrate colonizes multiple times faster and more aggressively.






Strange. I have experienced the exact opposite of this. It may be true of
grains. :shrug:





Gonna have to agree with Ganzig here.  I thought it was pretty well known that supplemented substrates take longer to colonize/fruit than pasteurized, unsupplemented.

Now if you're just talking about grain spawn, yeah I could see it colonizing more quickly when it's not fighting off contamination from being only pasteurized.  Is that what you meant LG?





This is not my experience.  I have been able to harvest mushrooms as quick as 12 days (though it usually takes 20 days with most strains) from inoculation with oysters on supplemented sawdust. And on average I harvest lions mane 17 days after inoculation.  I had never got these speeds when growing on pasteurized straw. For me usually 14-28 days colonizing on straw and 10 days fruiting them.


--------------------
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