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Offlines240779
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: chutney]
    #19334094 - 12/27/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

chutney said:
Quote:

Da2ra said:
Anybody who goes about this needs to read a bunch of academic books on psychedelic drugs, in my opinion.




YES!

By far the best response in this thread.

You just gave me an idea. I will transcribe a list of all the books I own regarding psychedelic research and make a new thread where fellow trip lit fans can post their reading list (regarding psychedelics) and discuss the literature in general.

Anyways, Im down to contribute to whatever ideas your kicking around OP .... Ive got a few of my own too if you want to get together and collaborate.  PM me :smile:




:smile:

I'm already doing that with the link in my sig. And it's not just a list, but a list of everything I have in electronic form and which I'd be happy to share with anyone. I haven't updated my list in a while, and I have a bunch of things to add.

I appreciate someone crediting me with the best response in a thread. That means a lot to me.

rbalzer, I wouldn't bother with 'Food of the Gods' and 'The Spirit Molecule'. 'Spirit Molecule' is too theoretical and only about DMT. 'Food of the Gods', I remember being boring and there seemed to be plenty of text devoted to things like chocolate and sugar.

Book like these is far more pertinent:

The Psychedelic Future of the Mind: How Entheogens Are Enhancing Cognition, Boosting Intelligence, and Raising Values. Thomas B. Roberts

LSD: Doorway to the Numinous: The Groundbreaking Psychedelic Research Into Realms of the Human Unconscious by Stanislav Grof (Stanislav Grof has amazing literature!)

And I didn't just mean studies and stuff when I said 'academic.' Both. Engross yourself in an unofficial study of psychedelic drugs.

We should have a book pirating group (maybe start a personal forum on The Shroomery for it) so that we can get these books out there.


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Offlines240779
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: s240779]
    #19334117 - 12/27/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Don't forget lectures. Great lecture by Grof. I watched the beginning up to where he recounts his first LSD trip.


Implications of Psychedelic Research for Psychology & Psychiatry - Stanislav Grof, M.D., Ph.D.

Code:
http://vimeo.com/14191834



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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: s240779]
    #19334125 - 12/27/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The funny thing about psychedelics is that they are the opposite of academic for me :-)

they are a valuable life experience, as valuable as the best life experiences

trying to present them as academic can give a false picture of them
they dont work the same for everybody


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Offlines240779
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: lessismore]
    #19334129 - 12/27/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

'Academic' is a broad word. By 'academic' I meant a professional, organized written or verabl attempt at conveying information related to them.


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Offlinechutney
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19334135 - 12/27/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

chutney said:
Quote:

Da2ra said:
Anybody who goes about this needs to read a bunch of academic books on psychedelic drugs, in my opinion.




YES!

By far the best response in this thread.

You just gave me an idea. I will transcribe a list of all the books I own regarding psychedelic research and make a new thread where fellow trip lit fans can post their reading list (regarding psychedelics) and discuss the literature in general.

Anyways, Im down to contribute to whatever ideas your kicking around OP .... Ive got a few of my own too if you want to get together and collaborate.  PM me :smile:



Wow thanks dude! I'll have to do that so we can kick ideas around. I'd love to hear yours.




HighonToilet: Yes I have copies of all the books I mentioned. Why does that matter :lol:




Definitely do.

Im always down to discuss psychedelics with intelligent and well informed people. Ive had discussions with people on this subject for 12 hours on end without really tiring.

And I promise I'm more intelligent than I sound... trying to be concise cause I'm typing on a tablet. Haha.

But yeah I've been pondering an idea for a way to reach large numbers of people and provide them with accurate and up to date information regarding all things psychedelic. Quite frankly I'm surprised it hasn't been done already... not to be lame, but I dont want to mention it here for fear that somebody will steal my idea (not like its "my idea" necessarily anyways). But definitely PM me and we can talk. I prefer a more real-time discussion medium than private messaging back and forth.... I prefer an instant messenger of some sort so the conversation has a more natural flow to it. Im chad4214 on AIM if youve got it. But yeah definitely get in touch sometime.... I have dozens of books on the topic and spend loads of time actively researching it and seeking out new information. Id love to chat and pick your brain sometime.


--------------------


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: lessismore]
    #19334157 - 12/27/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

free blogs are easy to make

takes 5mins, they get set up for you while you sign up iirc

then just paste all the information into the blog

then people can google and reply on your blog too , would be pretty nice
discussion section i.e.

write articles on a few subjects related to psychedelics i.e. with comment section enabled

LSD cures alcoholism in 19xx study
mushrooms treat PTSD and cluster headaches
common LSD and magic mushrooms myths
personal long term effects experiences (erowid survey link)
history of psychedelic use (shamanic/healing, hippie culture, consciousness expansion, today)
difference between various psychedelics? what do psychedelics mean? (not much difference..)
info on salvia divinorum for meditation/consciousness expansion , history of use
grow your own magic mushrooms in your closet? link to shroomery.org :-)


Edited by lessismore (12/27/13 07:25 PM)


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Offlines240779
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: s240779]
    #19334165 - 12/27/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Have you guys seen the documentary, Hofmann's Potion?


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Offlinechutney
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: s240779]
    #19334173 - 12/27/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

chutney said:
Quote:

Da2ra said:
Anybody who goes about this needs to read a bunch of academic books on psychedelic drugs, in my opinion.




YES!

By far the best response in this thread.

You just gave me an idea. I will transcribe a list of all the books I own regarding psychedelic research and make a new thread where fellow trip lit fans can post their reading list (regarding psychedelics) and discuss the literature in general.

Anyways, Im down to contribute to whatever ideas your kicking around OP .... Ive got a few of my own too if you want to get together and collaborate.  PM me :smile:




:smile:

I'm already doing that with the link in my sig. And it's not just a list, but a list of everything I have in electronic form and which I'd be happy to share with anyone. I haven't updated my list in a while, and I have a bunch of things to add.

I appreciate someone crediting me with the best response in a thread. That means a lot to me.

rbalzer, I wouldn't bother with 'Food of the Gods' and 'The Spirit Molecule'. 'Spirit Molecule' is too theoretical and only about DMT. 'Food of the Gods', I remember being boring and there seemed to be plenty of text devoted to things like chocolate and sugar.

Book like these is far more pertinent:

The Psychedelic Future of the Mind: How Entheogens Are Enhancing Cognition, Boosting Intelligence, and Raising Values. Thomas B. Roberts

LSD: Doorway to the Numinous: The Groundbreaking Psychedelic Research Into Realms of the Human Unconscious by Stanislav Grof (Stanislav Grof has amazing literature!)

And I didn't just mean studies and stuff when I said 'academic.' Both. Engross yourself in an unofficial study of psychedelic drugs.

We should have a book pirating group (maybe start a personal forum on The Shroomery for it) so that we can get these books out there.




No problem brother! Always great to see people encouraging others to read and seek out valuable information... there's not enough of that these days. As McKenna said "the first stop for any serious psychonaut should be the library. And its a LONG stop." If only more people would read extensively before getting into psychecelics, we wouldnt see nearly as many idiots jumping out windows when tripping, or getting into car wrecks when loaded, etc. 

And its funny you mention Thomas Roberts book "The Psychedelic Future of the Mind," I actually just purchased the Kindle edition on Amazon last night! How is that book? Im currently reading "Neuropsychedelia: The Revival of Hallucinogen Research since the Decade of the Brain" by Nicholas Langlitz. HIGHLY recommended.  Great overview of psychedelic research from the 1990s onward, and is written for a general audience in an easy to read and engrossing kind of way.


I would disagree about Food of the Gods. Great book for people who are interested in how drugs shape cultures ... drugs of all sorts (chocolate, coffee etc) have huge cultural impacts on societies and can even steer the society in one direction or another. I can see how somebody whos looking for information strictly about psychedelics would be turned off, and its not quite the most page-turning read but the information (and the depth of information it contains is staggering. Big pay off if you put in the energy too.


--------------------


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Offlines240779
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: chutney]
    #19334183 - 12/27/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: chutney]
    #19334185 - 12/27/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ive never read any psychedelic books except "my problem child" by Hofmann

set,setting,dose is a good thing to explain, then all psychedelics are pretty safe

but dunno where I learned that... I always consider that before tripping
maybe erowid?

Stanislav grof Ive only heard good things about

sometimes it is easier to convince people if they know someone famous who have done it lol
rather than making them read a book about it, if they have read the book there would be no need for them to dive in likely
they can get there by their thoughts by reading the book, that is how books work ;-)

but if you present psychedelics as sacred/mystical, then people get more interested
especially when they hear a lot of people have done them, which is true (beatles,pink floyd,steve jobs,philosophers / scientists, shamans in the jungle, Dr. timothy leary, Dr. albert hofmann i.e.)

taketheredpill.blogspot.com ;-)


Edited by lessismore (12/27/13 07:43 PM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: lessismore]
    #19334214 - 12/27/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I tell people I know well, its mainly about fun. Just because it's religious for me doesn't mean it is for everybody, or even a majority of users.

But also trying to let them know that it can lead to mystical experiences, that have the potential to change how you perceive the universe.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19334232 - 12/27/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

They made me remember I am a soul in a body, not sure if there is anything more important to remember than that
remember who I am, same as always, eternal
now without worries ;-)

and also remember that we are all the same and always have been, just easy to forget
we dont look the same on the outside
but on the inside we are all the same


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Offlineplektheplek
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: lessismore]
    #19334257 - 12/27/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I guess it comes down to the question "is society ready for the widespread general use of psychedelics?" For every 10 people who trip with no problem there is going to be 1 psycho who goes fucking crazy and gives the drug a bad name


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Offlinechutney
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: s240779]
    #19334317 - 12/27/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Can I have a copy of Roberts' book? -> How To Break The DRM On Kindle eBooks So You Can Enjoy Them Anywhere




Quote:

Da2ra said:
Can I have a copy of Roberts' book? -> How To Break The DRM On Kindle eBooks So You Can Enjoy Them Anywhere




Give me a few mins.

Edit: see your PM


--------------------


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: plektheplek]
    #19334338 - 12/27/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

plektheplek said:
I guess it comes down to the question "is society ready for the widespread general use of psychedelics?" For every 10 people who trip with no problem there is going to be 1 psycho who goes fucking crazy and gives the drug a bad name




people are retarded and believe their psychotic actions are from drugs

shrooms have been used for thousands of years in other places with no regulations outside of age

you're more likely to jump off a bridge sober then while under the influence of a handful of mushrooms


Edited by Konyap (12/27/13 08:17 PM)


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19334376 - 12/27/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
The easiest to legalize seems like psilocybin to me (feel free to argue the case of which one you think would be easiest!)




MDMA is much more promising and will likely become "legal" or "accepted" before any of the classic psychedelics. It's one step, but there is progress being made.





Quote:

But I have no idea what I can do to help. I try to talk to people I know about psychedelics as much as I can. Trying to educate, or at least combat the MASSIVE amounts of misinformation.




I wouldn't quite go on ranting about psychedelics to people, even if the words are truthful and factual. But when the opportunity is there, when the topic/subject is brought up, I like to speak out in a sensible manner. Dispel any myths or false facts that are brought up. I like to go a bit into how these sorts of "things" have been used for millennia and only relatively recently has our society deemed them to be something "bad" .


Go into the basics of their pharmacology and mechanism of action. So many people have heard things like "mushrooms are poison and that's why you trip", or "LSD is stored in your spine and can come out again causing flash backs" , and all sorts of other ridiculous shit that people hear and don't take the time to actually think about. Explaining that the active component in mushrooms has similar structure to serotonin so it binds to the same receptors, that it's not a poison but actually closely related to our own neurotransmitters. Or explaining that LSD is actually metabolized in the body rather quickly, it can't linger or be stored anywhere in the body.

Talk about their therapeutic potential, and make mention of the current research being done with mdma, psilocybin, LSD, and Ibogaine.


Touch on the "risks" involved as well...about set & setting and why most "bad trips" occur is because of the setting the person is in, and/or the mind-set the person is in when they decide to trip. Explain that psychedelics are definitely not for everyone, there are lots of folks that simply should not partake, but with a proper (educated!) approach they are damn near harmless...and over all, they offer lots of creative and therapeutic potential.


Things kinda like that, and in that way/manner, is what I try to talk about. Keeping it sensible, factual, and easy for people to understand. Not letting myself get hyped by my emotions and spewing out ad hominem, because deep down psychedelics are a part of my life and I know what they have to offer, and how fucked it is to throw someone in a cage for such a thing, so sometimes some snide remarks want to come out, but that's not going to help the argument.... Just simply laying out facts, and dispelling falsities...and not sounding like a far out psychedelic fundamentalist :smirk: .





Quote:

ALSO: please chime in with whether or not you think legalization would even be a good thing. Would you rather keep it untaxed/illegal? and why??




I think we need a different approach to what we have now, that's for sure.


First, before becoming outright legal and available, they will be used in clinical settings, which they should be.


As far as being legal and available outside of that.......Well, at the root of this all, is education, not even education in regards to the psychedelics/drugs themselves, but education and knowledge itself in general. The amount of ignorance out there is ridiculous. Trying to make a statement that any drug should be legal and available to adults can go right over a person's head, the thought that we should have freedom over our own conscious and what we put in our bodies never crosses most people's mind, and is easily overshadowed by "drugs are bad, mmkay" .


I think psychedelics (and all drugs) should be available to adults, but not in the ways that alcohol & tobacco are...I'm trying to think of a way that adults could acquire a psychedelic/drug from something essentially like a pharmacy. Something that would be controlled & regulated to a certain extent, but still openly available.


Or another approach I've pondered, for psychedelics specifically, would be allowing people to grow their own psychoactive plants/fungi/cacti, and allow consumption within their own homes or out of the public's "eye". So essentially decriminalization. Being tripped out of your gourd in public would still be illegal, selling/buying would still be illegal, being in possession of large amounts outside your home and transporting more than "personal" amounts would still be illegal...but growing and consumption would be legal. I can see that approach working out quite well.






-OM


.


--------------------


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: openmind]
    #19334539 - 12/27/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
The easiest to legalize seems like psilocybin to me (feel free to argue the case of which one you think would be easiest!)




MDMA is much more promising and will likely become "legal" or "accepted" before any of the classic psychedelics. It's one step, but there is progress being made.





Quote:

But I have no idea what I can do to help. I try to talk to people I know about psychedelics as much as I can. Trying to educate, or at least combat the MASSIVE amounts of misinformation.




I wouldn't quite go on ranting about psychedelics to people, even if the words are truthful and factual. But when the opportunity is there, when the topic/subject is brought up, I like to speak out in a sensible manner. Dispel any myths or false facts that are brought up. I like to go a bit into how these sorts of "things" have been used for millennia and only relatively recently has our society deemed them to be something "bad" .


Go into the basics of their pharmacology and mechanism of action. So many people have heard things like "mushrooms are poison and that's why you trip", or "LSD is stored in your spine and can come out again causing flash backs" , and all sorts of other ridiculous shit that people hear and don't take the time to actually think about. Explaining that the active component in mushrooms has similar structure to serotonin so it binds to the same receptors, that it's not a poison but actually closely related to our own neurotransmitters. Or explaining that LSD is actually metabolized in the body rather quickly, it can't linger or be stored anywhere in the body.

Talk about their therapeutic potential, and make mention of the current research being done with mdma, psilocybin, LSD, and Ibogaine.


Touch on the "risks" involved as well...about set & setting and why most "bad trips" occur is because of the setting the person is in, and/or the mind-set the person is in when they decide to trip. Explain that psychedelics are definitely not for everyone, there are lots of folks that simply should not partake, but with a proper (educated!) approach they are damn near harmless...and over all, they offer lots of creative and therapeutic potential.


Things kinda like that, and in that way/manner, is what I try to talk about. Keeping it sensible, factual, and easy for people to understand. Not letting myself get hyped by my emotions and spewing out ad hominem, because deep down psychedelics are a part of my life and I know what they have to offer, and how fucked it is to throw someone in a cage for such a thing, so sometimes some snide remarks want to come out, but that's not going to help the argument.... Just simply laying out facts, and dispelling falsities...and not sounding like a far out psychedelic fundamentalist :smirk: .





Quote:

ALSO: please chime in with whether or not you think legalization would even be a good thing. Would you rather keep it untaxed/illegal? and why??




I think we need a different approach to what we have now, that's for sure.


First, before becoming outright legal and available, they will be used in clinical settings, which they should be.


As far as being legal and available outside of that.......Well, at the root of this all, is education, not even education in regards to the psychedelics/drugs themselves, but education and knowledge itself in general. The amount of ignorance out there is ridiculous. Trying to make a statement that any drug should be legal and available to adults can go right over a person's head, the thought that we should have freedom over our own conscious and what we put in our bodies never crosses most people's mind, and is easily overshadowed by "drugs are bad, mmkay" .


I think psychedelics (and all drugs) should be available to adults, but not in the ways that alcohol & tobacco are...I'm trying to think of a way that adults could acquire a psychedelic/drug from something essentially like a pharmacy. Something that would be controlled & regulated to a certain extent, but still openly available.


Or another approach I've pondered, for psychedelics specifically, would be allowing people to grow their own psychoactive plants/fungi/cacti, and allow consumption within their own homes or out of the public's "eye". So essentially decriminalization. Being tripped out of your gourd in public would still be illegal, selling/buying would still be illegal, being in possession of large amounts outside your home and transporting more than "personal" amounts would still be illegal...but growing and consumption would be legal. I can see that approach working out quite well.






-OM


.



I read that entire thing, because you sir know how to write posts.

I really liked the entire first half, the way you explained how you explain psychedelics to people. I think I'll have to take some notes from it.

On the other hand, if it's legal it might as well be full on legal, i think. A variety of options for obtaining them would hopefully spring up. Like some sort of club or religious thing you can become a part of that consumes mushrooms as a ritual or whatever you want to call it.

Along with the homegrown option, or being prescribed by a therapist or psychiatrist in the form of a psilocybin pill. (ideally) Along with the less quality option of buying it from hypothetical online vendors or in headshops.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Posts: 6,268
Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19334642 - 12/27/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

LSD and mushrooms cured my depression and it lasted 8 months last time I didnt use them for that period

before I was about 90% careless about myself, had gained 40% extra weight, was smoking weed everyday, eating fastfood everyday in large amounts etc.

it all stopped since then, without needing reminder trips

nature is reminder now

so it saddens me when other people are prescribed chemical treatments when the root cause is in the lifestyle/personal problems
mushrooms can cure depression in most cases I am pretty sure, and have long lasting effect

if it could cure me it could cure anybody, had been careless about myself for 10 years everyday, fastfood in large quantities everyday for 10 years, didnt eat other food
and coke everyday as the only beverage too for 10 years too

now I drink water mostly, and eat healthy/fast often :-)
all problems vanished..

hadnt seen my body for 10-15 years I think, was pretty weird seeing it again, thats how careless I was
lived 100% as my thoughts for 10 years or more


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OfflineFunkyBuddha
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: lessismore]
    #19334780 - 12/27/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well to be honest I think as individuals, creating pamphlets for local distribution would be the most viable and efficient way to go about it. Basically every two months or so, send around a pamphlet in your local area stating (with a reference list and using only extremely reliable studies) the positives and negatives, possible medical benefits and a short section with myths and truths at the end.

In my opinion the most important part is not one single word without serious scientific study to back it up and this could become a seriously useful and effective thing. We could create a wikispace page ( http://www.wikispaces.com/ ) which is basically an online document editing thing and it just gives everyone that has been approved access to a single document and people deemed responsible enough could add to this as they find information and once the information is ready it could be formatted into a nice pamphlet by someone and made free to download so people can access it online or print it and distribute it.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: What can we do as individuals to help end psilocybin prohibition??? [Re: lessismore]
    #19334809 - 12/27/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mio said:
LSD and mushrooms cured my depression and it lasted 8 months last time I didnt use them for that period

before I was about 90% careless about myself, had gained 40% extra weight, was smoking weed everyday, eating fastfood everyday in large amounts etc.

it all stopped since then, without needing reminder trips

nature is reminder now

so it saddens me when other people are prescribed chemical treatments when the root cause is in the lifestyle/personal problems
mushrooms can cure depression in most cases I am pretty sure, and have long lasting effect

if it could cure me it could cure anybody, had been careless about myself for 10 years everyday, fastfood in large quantities everyday for 10 years, didnt eat other food
and coke everyday as the only beverage too for 10 years too

now I drink water mostly, and eat healthy/fast often :-)
all problems vanished..

hadnt seen my body for 10-15 years I think, was pretty weird seeing it again, thats how careless I was
lived 100% as my thoughts for 10 years or more



I'm glad it worked for you too!

Mushrooms have cured my depression as well :awepreciation:


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