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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Enlil]
    #19333112 - 12/27/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Joker Flash said:
I'd rather not have the cops spraying chemicals on people. While it will be a good tool for overdoses I feel like it won't be used in just that context. I'd rather have somebody with medical training apply medication than somebody who carries a baton to hit people with.

If the cops can make it to a scene in time, so can the emt's. The emt's are trained to deal with medical situations, while cops are law enforcement. They're polar opposites. While they say they're still public servants I don't believe that's the case, they have specific jobs and I believe this oversteps their bounds.





Fair enough :laugh: I keep thinking of Pulp Fiction...

Quote:

Enlil said:
Sounds like forced treatment to me.




Would you rather be given forced treatment or overdose and die? Obviously this is the extreme, I see what you're saying if police would simply abuse this and spray those not critically in danger.


Edited by KingKnowledge (12/27/13 01:59 PM)


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: something cool]
    #19333154 - 12/27/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

something cool said:
That's cool. They should also carry grapefruit juice boxes, in case they encounter the opposite scenario.



:ilold:  that shit was funny!


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19333169 - 12/27/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm all for forced treatment if it is proven necessary and effective, sure.


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Offlineniteman

Registered: 06/29/11
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19333347 - 12/27/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Joker Flash said:
Disgusting! Now they can enforce sobriety before they enforce "laws". Wouldn't want anything clouding your mind when the officer is speaking.

Remember it's for your own good





Are you a complete idiot or do you have a bad reading comprehension? The drug they are talking about is Naloxone and it is used to counteract opioids and heroin to treat an overdose. It saves peoples lives. My cousin overdosed on H and his girlfriend used the shit they kept in their house to save him until the EMS arrived. I just don't understand why some jackasses insist this is a negative thing when drug advocacy  and harm reduction groups have been pushing for this type of thing for years. But no next time I see you on the street dying from an overdose and slipping away ill just let you stay there and be high instead of helping you dude :rolleyes:


Edited by niteman (12/27/13 03:15 PM)


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OfflineDurin


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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Enlil]
    #19333408 - 12/27/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This gives me mixed feelings. I think it can be a good thing with a possibility for saving lives. Besides the fact that if you were ODing wouldn't you want someone to save your life? Cops on the other hand are notorious for their poor medical knowledge (shooting the mentally handicapped letting those with epilepsy die in the streets etc) and their abuse of new tools. Great caution should be used.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Enlil]
    #19333977 - 12/27/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Sounds like forced treatment to me.




Yes. Fortunately, it doesn't sound like rehab.


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InvisibleJoker Flash
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19333988 - 12/27/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Would you rather be given forced treatment or overdose and die? Obviously this is the extreme, I see what you're saying if police would simply abuse this and spray those not critically in danger.




I think I'd rather die. I know those are big words but that's how I feel. I'm pretty conservative about my dosing so if I was comatose it'd probably be my goal, not on accident.  I'm very "pro right-to-die," and nobody should have the power to tell somebody they should have to keep living, or that it's time for them to die. I'm the one who decides what goes into my body, and I'd like to keep it that way.

But of course that wouldn't matter because they wouldn't be able to tell, so they should administer it. I'm not trying to say if you fuck up your dosing it's "what you wanted," just saying my case specifically.

The drug definitely should be used, but not by somebody who wants to wake you up and coerce you into telling them where you get your drugs. It should be administered by medical staff who don't care nearly as much, it just shouldn't be provided to people who would use for their own gain.

What are your thoughts on the life and death situation?

Quote:

niteman said:
Quote:

Joker Flash said:
Disgusting! Now they can enforce sobriety before they enforce "laws". Wouldn't want anything clouding your mind when the officer is speaking.

Remember it's for your own good





Are you a complete idiot or do you have a bad reading comprehension? The drug they are talking about is Naloxone and it is used to counteract opioids and heroin to treat an overdose. It saves peoples lives. My cousin overdosed on H and his girlfriend used the shit they kept in their house to save him until the EMS arrived. I just don't understand why some jackasses insist this is a negative thing when drug advocacy  and harm reduction groups have been pushing for this type of thing for years. But no next time I see you on the street dying from an overdose and slipping away ill just let you stay there and be high instead of helping you dude :rolleyes:




I could ask you the same question you asked me. I'm all for the EMTs having it but I don't think cops should have it. You said the EMTs arrived and saved your cousin, and that's what they're there for. I'm glad he made it. But the last thing he needed was somebody interrogating him while he came back, to try and arrest his friends.

I never once attacked the drug itself, but the ways law enforcement could, and probably will, use it. Of course this is just a product of my paranoid mind but we'll find out from anecdotes in the years to come.


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Offlinedownlowfunk
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19334614 - 12/27/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

downlowfunk said:
Street Prices
OxyContin $1.00 per mg,  Suboxone $2.50 per mg.

They make the claim they are combating opiates when in reality they are profiting off opiates.



haha, wow. Is that really the real figure for the prices?

That's some funny shit. Not really, but its the same with the DUI industry. So many people make SOO much money off of that shit. It's straight-up criminal.




Yeah a 8 mg Suboxone pill goes for $20 on the streets.  I wonder how much the police will charge for their naloxone.  Who will pay? The city, or state? The Dosee?  This is very interesting. 

The police will be stacking that loot.  In Opioids we trust.


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OfflineRitual
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19334629 - 12/27/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Heroin dose's are not measured in some lab with FDA oversight.  You can't say someone overdosing did it to themselves on purpose.





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InvisibleJoker Flash
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Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 334
Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Ritual]
    #19334640 - 12/27/13 09:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Shit thought I had that in my rant :lol: Must've taken it out!

Different form, different cutting agents, different roa... Lots of variables


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OfflineRitual
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: downlowfunk]
    #19334666 - 12/27/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

downlowfunk said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

downlowfunk said:
Street Prices
OxyContin $1.00 per mg,  Suboxone $2.50 per mg.

They make the claim they are combating opiates when in reality they are profiting off opiates.



haha, wow. Is that really the real figure for the prices?

That's some funny shit. Not really, but its the same with the DUI industry. So many people make SOO much money off of that shit. It's straight-up criminal.




Yeah a 8 mg Suboxone pill goes for $20 on the streets.  I wonder how much the police will charge for their naloxone.  Who will pay? The city, or state? The Dosee?  This is very interesting. 

The police will be stacking that loot.  In Opioids we trust.




Naloxone is super cheap.


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Offlineniteman

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1,050
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19335154 - 12/28/13 12:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I feel bad for calling you an idiot but it seemed like you didnt know wtf you were talking about. I still disagree but i see where you are coming from if they were to abuses it like pigs abuse every ounce of their power. I feel strongly about it as several people i know have lost their lives to hydromorphone overdose its really hard i just wish there were more street medics or something. Its sad that people have to die like that one day they are with us and the next you get the news


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InvisibleJoker Flash
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Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 334
Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: niteman]
    #19336293 - 12/28/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No problem! Let's agree to disagree.

I think there should be more people out there helping, but I don't know if cops would even help all that much. I've lost friends too, but I've lost more to arrests.

And I have to admit my first post was a very shitty post. It wasn't thought out well, and was just plain shitty. I stand by it but I could have put more into it.


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OfflineOrgasmicBanana
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19336461 - 12/28/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In the 3 separate overdoses I've witnessed, there wasn't a single ambulance, or a moment where a single cop was concerned about the life of the person laying motionless on the ground. Give them that shit in a can they'll probably spray it at protesters or get it mixed up with their gun on accident and shoot some junkie in the face.


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Offlineniteman

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1,050
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: OrgasmicBanana]
    #19336765 - 12/28/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah I think we can all agree that cops are complete assholes


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: niteman]
    #19336781 - 12/28/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why can't there be a checks and balances system for the police?

They are out of fucking control and have been for years. Not that the general population gives a shit


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Offlineniteman

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1,050
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19336810 - 12/28/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Why can't there be a checks and balances system for the police?

They are out of fucking control and have been for years. Not that the general population gives a shit




Yeah it will not change unless people rise up and challenge the way things are. Its really discouraging to see people standing by when anyone's rights are being abused. Its hard to convince the average person with no run ins with the law though...


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19337211 - 12/28/13 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Joker Flash said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Would you rather be given forced treatment or overdose and die? Obviously this is the extreme, I see what you're saying if police would simply abuse this and spray those not critically in danger.




I think I'd rather die. I know those are big words but that's how I feel. I'm pretty conservative about my dosing so if I was comatose it'd probably be my goal, not on accident.  I'm very "pro right-to-die," and nobody should have the power to tell somebody they should have to keep living, or that it's time for them to die. I'm the one who decides what goes into my body, and I'd like to keep it that way.

But of course that wouldn't matter because they wouldn't be able to tell, so they should administer it. I'm not trying to say if you fuck up your dosing it's "what you wanted," just saying my case specifically.

The drug definitely should be used, but not by somebody who wants to wake you up and coerce you into telling them where you get your drugs. It should be administered by medical staff who don't care nearly as much, it just shouldn't be provided to people who would use for their own gain.

What are your thoughts on the life and death situation?




I agree that one should have the right to end their life if needed. However, I think on the majority, heroin overdoses are accidents, not creative ways of suicide. If you wanna jump off a bridge, and nobody can convince you otherwise, I'm not gonna say that's stupid. People make their own decisions, although I personally believe suicide is never the answer and only causes more trouble for loved ones still alive. But saving lives of people who are just down on their luck is probably a good thing.


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OfflineShroomyBudz
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19337978 - 12/28/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This thread almost scares me a little.. Why would cops solo out this tool and not abuse it? :rolleyes:


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InvisibleJoker Flash
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Re: NJ police may carry chemical to counteract heroin and other opioid drugs [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19338550 - 12/28/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Quote:

Joker Flash said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Would you rather be given forced treatment or overdose and die? Obviously this is the extreme, I see what you're saying if police would simply abuse this and spray those not critically in danger.




I think I'd rather die. I know those are big words but that's how I feel. I'm pretty conservative about my dosing so if I was comatose it'd probably be my goal, not on accident.  I'm very "pro right-to-die," and nobody should have the power to tell somebody they should have to keep living, or that it's time for them to die. I'm the one who decides what goes into my body, and I'd like to keep it that way.

But of course that wouldn't matter because they wouldn't be able to tell, so they should administer it. I'm not trying to say if you fuck up your dosing it's "what you wanted," just saying my case specifically.

The drug definitely should be used, but not by somebody who wants to wake you up and coerce you into telling them where you get your drugs. It should be administered by medical staff who don't care nearly as much, it just shouldn't be provided to people who would use for their own gain.

What are your thoughts on the life and death situation?




I agree that one should have the right to end their life if needed. However, I think on the majority, heroin overdoses are accidents, not creative ways of suicide. If you wanna jump off a bridge, and nobody can convince you otherwise, I'm not gonna say that's stupid. People make their own decisions, although I personally believe suicide is never the answer and only causes more trouble for loved ones still alive. But saving lives of people who are just down on their luck is probably a good thing.




I definitely agree that most heroin overdoses are accidents. Even with a moral right to die it isn't something that should be taken lightly at all. It is a social problem the way it stands now but if the right preparation and communication it could relieve a lot of suffering in the world. If it's your time to go it's your time to go.

I like your attitude, it's an opinionated live and let live approach; we'd all be the same without opinions.

Quote:

niteman said:
Quote:

rbalzer said:
Why can't there be a checks and balances system for the police?

They are out of fucking control and have been for years. Not that the general population gives a shit




Yeah it will not change unless people rise up and challenge the way things are. Its really discouraging to see people standing by when anyone's rights are being abused. Its hard to convince the average person with no run ins with the law though...




I really think a major reform of drug policy and public opinion needs to be undertaken and sought in order for any solution to be the right one. If the public doesn't give a damn about what happens to users, why would the cops?

Damned if you do damned if you don't.


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