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Offlinegalacticaspiration
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straw sterolization methods
    #19331241 - 12/27/13 12:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So I've recently switched from PF tek to using rye, I haven't fruited anything from the rye yet but seriously every step has been way more of a pay off, much less effort, and eassssyyyyy to clone jar to jar. Anyways, for my substrate I chose straw to try my first round, my question is how do I have to sterilize it in my pressure cooker. I have a video torrent I found that told me to do it in a plastic tub with water @140-180f for 60min to 90min, essentially the same process but without pressure, and with hydrated lime to balance ph.

So to save myself a LOT of time, can I just sterilize the straw in my pressure cooker? its a 23qt so it has plenty of room, I just don't know if it is necessary for it to be in jars or not. Would it be possible to just have it sit in a metal strainer that fits in the pressure cooker and do everything else as I would?

Need input on this asap, introducing rye to straw by Saturday morning


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OfflineMr.T
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: galacticaspiration]
    #19331272 - 12/27/13 12:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A few suggestions that may clear things up a bit. Heating up water to 140-180 degrees for 60-90 minutes is not essentially the same thing as sterilization, it is pasteurization (heating at ~170F for an extended period of time).

Because water boils at 212F at sea level, it turns into vapor at that temperature, and can therefore no longer increase in heat. To reach sterilization temperatures (250F), pressure is required.

Anyway, you can sterilize straw in a pressure cooker, but it may be a better idea to do it in a filter patch bag instead of a metal strainer, because as soon as you open and expose the straw in the pressure cooker, airborne contaminants can become a problem.

Pasteurization of straw is more common as a bulk medium, as long as it is not supplemented with extra nutrients (which give contaminants an edge), alongside a higher grain:straw spawn ratio.


I hope this helps, and also that I am not giving any misinformation. Good luck. :thumbup:

T


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Edited by Mr.T (12/27/13 12:20 AM)


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Offlinegalacticaspiration
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: Mr.T]
    #19331340 - 12/27/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Clearly you can tell I have some learning to do still, but that's what this is all about.

I originally wanted to use straw with earthworm castings, the only reason I honestly found it interesting that most people I know say it can increase the potency. But I've yet to really find much to back it up, some swear by it, some say its really just an option that may risk contamination (as you mentioned). Is it really that beneficial?

Filter bag sounds very easy, and less mess as well. If I did so, would water level really matter? Or would I just want to steam them by putting them on a riser inside the cooker?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: galacticaspiration]
    #19331348 - 12/27/13 12:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

galacticaspiration said:
I originally wanted to use straw with earthworm castings, the only reason I honestly found it interesting that most people I know say it can increase the potency.




Potency is genetic for the most part. If you want potent mushies you better read up on agar and cloning and isolation.


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Offlinegalacticaspiration
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19331376 - 12/27/13 01:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I had a feeling, same goes for everything else living. I do have some agar, but I feel like its my final frontier in a sense. I haven't even built a glove box. Everything I do from inoculation to birthing is done in my bedroom, aside from pressure cooking obviously. So far I've only had one small contamination but that was with an experiment with pf. Thanks for the advice, ill brush up more on agar


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: galacticaspiration]
    #19331388 - 12/27/13 01:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Get an SAB as well. Is a must for working with sterile media.


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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19331502 - 12/27/13 02:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

galacticaspiration said:
I had a feeling, same goes for everything else living. I do have some agar, but I feel like its my final frontier in a sense. I haven't even built a glove box. Everything I do from inoculation to birthing is done in my bedroom, aside from pressure cooking obviously. So far I've only had one small contamination but that was with an experiment with pf. Thanks for the advice, ill brush up more on agar





i would go with the pasteurization for sure


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OfflineMr.T
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: galacticaspiration]
    #19332316 - 12/27/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

galacticaspiration said:


Filter bag sounds very easy, and less mess as well. If I did so, would water level really matter? Or would I just want to steam them by putting them on a riser inside the cooker?




Filter bags are really easy to use, and are very cheap (.50c/bag). Water level in the pressure cooker is not significant, not much water is lost through the release valve, but I usually use ~3/4¨-1¨ water, you just don´t want it to run dry. If you use any type of bags in a pressure cooker, you should space them with jar lids or something similar to allow the steam to evenly heat the bag, and to prevent possible melting (won´t happen with adequate bags).

edit: definitely build yourself a Still Air Box. Super necessary.

T


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Edited by Mr.T (12/27/13 09:44 AM)


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Offlineinvitro


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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: Mr.T]
    #19332527 - 12/27/13 10:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Pasteurize because you don't want to kill off the beneficial microbes that survive above 170F, these will prevent the bad one from colonizing and won't interfere with the good mycelium.  PCing the straw is not recommended.


Edited by invitro (12/27/13 10:50 AM)


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: invitro]
    #19332668 - 12/27/13 11:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

invitro said:
PCing the straw is not recommended.



Don't sterilize your straw unless you can spawn it in a sterile environment, and keep that way until full colonization.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12702122

I recently begun experiments with straw.  I pay less for a huge bale of straw than one brick of coir.  The above prep method does work, and is a great place to get the basic idea of how to pasteurize straw.  I shoot for staying above 145 and less than 165, and use a large cooler similar to that one.  I had no issue keeping it hot for 2 hours at all.  I have been using this cooler method for coir for the last few months.

Good luck!


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19333229 - 12/27/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

u can use 5 gallon buckets from home depot too instead of those tupperware bins...save those for ur monos :smile:
pre soak ur straw in water and dish soap before pasteurizing to get water content right.  if u want to load into jars and pasteurize via franks tek then u will have to pay close attention to how small ur straw is cut, otherwise its a bitch to get into the jars and have them packed consistently enough to measure the core.  u don't want gaping holes of air in the straw jars, which large pieces of straw inevitably lead to.


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19333338 - 12/27/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
I have been using this cooler method



I really did not specify, because I must have forgotten to mention.....I am using a large igloo cooler to maintain temps.  That plastic bucket does not suit me.  You fill a cooler with gallons of near-boiling water, it is amazing how long it will hold that heat.

I wish I had specified it in my last post.


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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19333998 - 12/27/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

whippy..i have only used straw for oysters, i want to try it with cubes.  my worry is that the straw is always too were after cooling down from pasteurization,  even if i wait overnight.  its not dripping when picked up, maybe a drop or two when squeezed, but it still seems way more wet than a coir/hpoo substrate.  is that just the nature of the straw?  and do u have any threads/pics of ur straw uses?


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19334461 - 12/27/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
whippy..i have only used straw for oysters, i want to try it with cubes.  my worry is that the straw is always too were after cooling down from pasteurization,  even if i wait overnight.  its not dripping when picked up, maybe a drop or two when squeezed, but it still seems way more wet than a coir/hpoo substrate.  is that just the nature of the straw?  and do u have any threads/pics of ur straw uses?



I am in my second experiment with straw, and I agree it seems too wet.  The last batch I pulled from 150f water, and strained.  After an hour, it was at some points still too hot to handle.  I shook it out as best I could and mixed what I guess to be about 2 quarts of straw to 1qt spawn.  That was almost 2 weeks ago, and the block of spawn is almost 100%.  It did seem wet.  My first experiement failed (what I think) due to the inclusion of peat (I was drunk and added the casing layer at spawn).  My second attempt is showing no signs of slowing up either.  it is almost complete....Have not cased yet.  I will report back hopefully with photos.


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Offlinegalacticaspiration
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19335301 - 12/28/13 01:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

this is starting to sound more complicated than I had originally planned on.

My basic plan is to get the straw pasteurized, and do it into a small circular laundry hamper with holes in it. I'd guess about 14'' tall, maybe the same at its "mouth". Put a layer of straw 2-3 inches, light layer of colonized rye (only within 3'' from the 'outer border' of the straw. I saw in my video that it can lead to drying out and ultimately possible contamination), straw, rye, and so on. Then keep it in my tub to allow it to colonize the straw some. Next, add more holes and see if I can't get it to fruit.

After I pasteurize however, and I need to strain the straw or basically expose it at all, what is the easiest way to keep it contaminant free without sealing myself in a 3x3 room all suited up?

if anyone has the time to basically explain this from pasteurization to early fruiting stages you would be my hero. I have a huge folder I downloaded with about 18 videos all by some guy that grows oyster mushrooms and shitake, the guy is honestly a badass but the last you'd expect to be neck deep in mycology. His videos are basic enough that anyone can understand them, but I feel like it missing some key information.

Any veteran straw users please help, I already have 5 fully colonized qt jars ready to go so im dragging my feet at this point, not fair to my ladies


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: galacticaspiration]
    #19335696 - 12/28/13 06:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

galactic...r the videos called "lets grow mushrooms"?
if so, that is Rogerrabbit (mainly referred to as "RR" here on threads), he is moderator on this forum and an awesome grower.  that tek u r speaking of with the laundry basket is done with oysters in the video right?
are you growing cubes or oysters?
i've never seen a laundry basket done with cubes, although it may work (i have seen trays on shelves where cubes grew above and below the tray, but it was in a self contained grow room)? i think it works well with oysters because they are so rapid and hungry, so they can tear up the straw in the basket before any con tams can grab hold (assuming u have pasteurized it effectively). they also like a little more fresh air than cubes, so all those baskets holes are like a playground for their primordia.
that said, u mention that u want to "keep it in ur tub" after layering spawn and sub, so maybe if u put it (the basket) in another tub incubator to colonize it will give the cube myc a leading edge. (but then u have to have a plan on how to keep up fruiting conditions with such a large container after its 100% colonized)
as far as letting the straw cool down, a strainer should be fine, or put in a pillow case and let drip dry overnight.
xtra holes might be unnecessary depending on how many there are to begin with in ur basket.
definitely pack the sub and spawn down as u layer it as best u can, and put a weight of some kind on top to help keep everything packed together and speed up colonization.  i've only done this with oysters in bags, like newspaper bags, packed down TIGHT, with slits like "X"'s up and down the sides, for the oyster clusters to emerge. the pic in my sig in my first oyster fruit, not the best humidity so it cracked a bit, but i was still proud none the less!

what whippy and i were talking about was that sometimes the straw seems a little on the wet side after pasteurization (compared to subs like coir and h poo), and trying to figure out if this was common, and if so, what a possible solution could be.
have u searched any straw teks from the search engine? i only remember one but it was a mono, and not with the best results (compared to coir/hpoo).  TMC has several pics of cubes with straw that is cased.


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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: galacticaspiration]
    #19335711 - 12/28/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

galacticaspiration said:
I have a video torrent I found that told me to .  .  .  .






:facepalm:


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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19335754 - 12/28/13 06:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

didn't even notice that

shame!

could have spent the $8.99 on the downloadable version instead of buying the laundry basket and just used bags!


--------------------
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MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlinegalacticaspiration
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19344376 - 12/30/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yes that's the exact video, he had a picture at the end of the "lets do straw 2.0" with a basket of cubes. However now its sounding like it may not work like I had hoped after all. My main worry now is that the jars I have fully colonized are just sitting, they've been ready a good week now


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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: galacticaspiration]
    #19344388 - 12/30/13 12:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i used an old jar just awhile ago, worked out fine and that was about four months old:cool:


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinegalacticaspiration
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Re: straw sterolization methods [Re: cronicr]
    #19344640 - 12/30/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

that's beautiful lol, obviously ill keep an eye out for moisture. That being said, time to read up more and approach this a 2nd time much more prepared. Thanks to all again for the input


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