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Offlinemagnesium
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Drying mushrooms question
    #19330889 - 12/26/13 10:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I harvested 4 ounces around six weeks ago and did not get a chance to dry them all the way. Theyve been sitting out for 6 weeks (was out of town) and i can bend them but they dont quite snap. Should I put them back in the dryer? Would they be safe to eat? Thanks :smile:


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OfflinePaulsage
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: magnesium]
    #19330898 - 12/26/13 10:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i'd toss 'em in the dehydrator for a few hours and get 'em cracker dry...


--------------------
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Paulsage]
    #19330919 - 12/26/13 10:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:whathesaid:


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: cronicr]
    #19331192 - 12/26/13 11:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Is there a significant loss in potency if you dry it by letting it sit in open air??
This thought has been itching me for a while now.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: toddler273]
    #19331221 - 12/26/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yea I just went over this myself a couple days? Ago.  Psilocybin and psilocin deteriorate extremely fast in oxygen but is stable up to 300F. That's why the idea is to get them cracker dry THEN seal them in an airtight container. For longer storage throw some kind of desiccant into the container.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: magickspore]
    #19331227 - 12/27/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well that's a bummer.
Can I use my oven and keep the temp below 200??


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: toddler273]
    #19331231 - 12/27/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I vacuum seal mine once they are cracker dry.
:kenthumbup:


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Offlinemagickspore
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19331246 - 12/27/13 12:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I use a box fan then finish em off with a desiccant chamber.

I actually found this little contraption for absorbing moisture in like closets and basements and bathrooms for a dollar.
If it works right it will replace like 15.00 worth of desiccant with 1.00.


Edited by magickspore (12/27/13 12:12 AM)


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: magickspore]
    #19331295 - 12/27/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

magickspore said:
I use a box fan then finish em off with a desiccant chamber.

I actually found this little contraption for absorbing moisture in like closets and basements and bathrooms for a dollar.
If it works right it will replace like 15.00 worth of desiccant with 1.00.




Yeah but that will get old real fast if you start growing bulk. I would hate to have to use that if you just harvested several monos. Dehydrator FTW. Good idea to have a spare as well, just burned mine out over the holidays.


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Offlinemagickspore
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19331356 - 12/27/13 12:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lol yea it is by no means a permanent method as pasty said. With that said for 4 dollars, dollar for this thing and 3 for a tub, that I already have a bunch of laying around anyways.  when your just getting back into the hobby or just learning definitely could hold you off and would be worth the investment of a few dollars

Ps. I know the site says 15 but at a local store its only a buck each. And the desiccant inside is just like damprid or w.e. Just in a cool little container. I could totally make a tote with layers of shrooms built around it. Some chicken wire duct tape, bud, a knife and a MacGyver attitude. :wink:


Edited by magickspore (12/27/13 01:02 AM)


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OfflineStupendous-Yappi
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: toddler273]
    #19331393 - 12/27/13 01:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

toddler273 said:
Is there a significant loss in potency if you dry it by letting it sit in open air??
This thought has been itching me for a while now.



There isn't a significant loss when drying in open air. Psilocin deteriorates when exposed to oxygen, but it's not actually being exposed when it's still inside the mushroom. The blue bruising is what you see when it is exposed. Using a dehydrator will cause more loss in potency then air drying since Psilocybe and Psilocin both deteriorate with a lot of heat. I doubt it would be by enough for you to notice though.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Stupendous-Yappi] * 1
    #19331450 - 12/27/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:lolwut: :callingbullshit:

Quote:

Stupendous-Yappi said:
There isn't a significant loss when drying in open air. Psilocin deteriorates when exposed to oxygen, but it's not actually being exposed when it's still inside the mushroom.




True, the mushroom is just rotting. Probably does wonders for the potency

Quote:

Stupendous-Yappi said:
The blue bruising is what you see when it is exposed.




Never been proven. . .

Quote:

Stupendous-Yappi said:
Using a dehydrator will cause more loss in potency then air drying since Psilocybe and Psilocin both deteriorate with a lot of heat.




They do not start to break down from heat until past 300f. Most dehydrators go up to 165f :shrug:


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #19331490 - 12/27/13 02:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:smbfacepalm:


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: cronicr]
    #19331545 - 12/27/13 02:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
:smbfacepalm:




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InvisibleNecroMyce
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Stromrider]
    #19331583 - 12/27/13 03:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you dont want to worry about $ or potency loss, you can pick up some epsom salt, bake that in the oven then just add that drying chamber. or take your heat off your dehydrator and then put the epsom salt in the bottom of the dehydrator


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: NecroMyce]
    #19332731 - 12/27/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the responses everybody. Is the best way to store them in air tight mason jars? All my jars are full so I've been using ziploc bags. That doesn't work well at all.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: magnesium]
    #19332875 - 12/27/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

magnesium said:
Thanks for the responses everybody. Is the best way to store them in air tight mason jars? All my jars are full so I've been using ziploc bags. That doesn't work well at all.




Mason jars with a desiccant pack.  I use the ones that come with sushi seaweed.  I've noticed no loss in potency after both weeks and months.  My friends don't seem to notice either.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19333403 - 12/27/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
True, the mushroom is just rotting. Probably does wonders for the potency



This is a non-sequitur. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. Are you saying when people fan dry with a desiccant that the mushroom will rot? A dehydrator also exposes the mushroom to air.



Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
They do not start to break down from heat until past 300f. Most dehydrators go up to 165f :shrug:



I've been searching but can't find were you get the 300*F from. Have a reference?
What I've read so far doesn't match the assertion that break down won't start till 300*F.[1][2]


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Stupendous-Yappi]
    #19334193 - 12/27/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Stupendous-Yappi said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
True, the mushroom is just rotting. Probably does wonders for the potency



This is a non-sequitur. I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. Are you saying when people fan dry with a desiccant that the mushroom will rot? A dehydrator also exposes the mushroom to air.




True they are exposed to air during dehydration, but not for near as long:shrug:

Quote:

Stupendous-Yappi said:
I've been searching but can't find were you get the 300*F from. Have a reference?
What I've read so far doesn't match the assertion that break down won't start till 300*F.[1][2]




https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/psilocybin/psilocybin_chemistry.shtml


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Pastywhyte] * 1
    #19334601 - 12/27/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

this is the third thread iv seen on this subject in the last couple of days. just use a dehydrator, if you are worried about the heat affecting potency get one with an adjustable heat control. I just got one at Walmart for like $50.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19334608 - 12/27/13 09:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Freeze dry, but purge with argon gas then vac pack and retain 100% psilocybin psilocin and baeocystin opposed to only psilocybin and trace psilocin.

You could keep struggling to find a potent strain/best substrate or you just stop destroying 80-90% of the actives contained in your product by drying in oxygen while the water content is in a liquid phase!

My converted chest freezer handles 4lbs in less than a week.

Try it on a small scale and see the difference. Just toss fresh mushrooms in a frost free freezer on it's highest setting, check daily. The frozen water will be dried by sublimation. Replace air with dry argon gas and vacuum speeds up the process to hours.

They even retain more of it's fresh shape :wink: :thumbup:


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19334628 - 12/27/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Anhydrous magnesium sulphate in a tupperware bin with a layer of paper towel on top for me.

Dry cool, dry quick. IMO you want stems to bend, but not crack. Same as curing buds.


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Edited by Quexl (12/27/13 09:41 PM)


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Quexl]
    #19334714 - 12/27/13 10:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Quexl said:
Anhydrous magnesium sulphate in a tupperware bin with a layer of paper towel on top for me.

Dry cool, dry quick. IMO you want stems to bend, but not crack. Same as curing buds.



Maybe if you are eating them right away.... But if that's the case why are you drying them in the first place... For long term storage they need to be cracker dry or they will mold


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: Knate420]
    #19334751 - 12/27/13 10:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

as long as they are cracker dry they can be stored in the freezer for long periods of time. iv stored them for almost a year in the freezer and they were fine.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19334900 - 12/27/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

GO TO HOMEDEOPT OR LOWES. GET DAMPRID IN THE PAINT DEPARTEMT. PUT IN A SHOT GLASS, PUT SHOT GLASS AND SHROOMS IN A AIR TIGHT TUB. TUFFAWARE OR SIMILAR WORKS GREAT!!!

easy. cracker dry in no time.

just fan dry future shrooms b4 u put them in there. when there at the point yours are now chunk them in.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: evileye001]
    #19335184 - 12/28/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

evileye001 said:
GO TO HOMEDEOPT OR LOWES. GET DAMPRID IN THE PAINT DEPARTEMT. PUT IN A SHOT GLASS, PUT SHOT GLASS AND SHROOMS IN A AIR TIGHT TUB. TUFFAWARE OR SIMILAR WORKS GREAT!!!

easy. cracker dry in no time.

just fan dry future shrooms b4 u put them in there. when there at the point yours are now chunk them in.




QFT

Also get a dehydrator. PC, dehydrator, humidifier (optional). For long term interest.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19335414 - 12/28/13 02:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
this is the third thread iv seen on this subject in the last couple of days. just use a dehydrator, if you are worried about the heat affecting potency get one with an adjustable heat control. I just got one at Walmart for like $50.



How about just don't worry about potency loss from heat.

No need for an adjustable dehydrator.....you're gonna want to use it on high anyway.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19335454 - 12/28/13 03:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
Freeze dry, but purge with argon gas then vac pack and retain 100% psilocybin psilocin and baeocystin opposed to only psilocybin and trace psilocin.

You could keep struggling to find a potent strain/best substrate or you just stop destroying 80-90% of the actives contained in your product by drying in oxygen while the water content is in a liquid phase!

My converted chest freezer handles 4lbs in less than a week.

Try it on a small scale and see the difference. Just toss fresh mushrooms in a frost free freezer on it's highest setting, check daily. The frozen water will be dried by sublimation. Replace air with dry argon gas and vacuum speeds up the process to hours.

They even retain more of it's fresh shape :wink: :thumbup:




Willsolvem, what's all this then?  I have vacuum pack capability.  No argon, tho.  Can you elaborate on this process?

Also, based on what is the claim of destruction of 80% to 90% actives made?  Any references?


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19335856 - 12/28/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Compare the two charts for active content pre/post dehydration





A frost-free freezer operates by maintaining the chamber as dry as possible. To keep frost down the unit will heat its walls on occasion to melt any light frost and a fan agitates the warmish air to defrost other surfaces.

To freezer dry, use a good thermometer and set the lowest temp within a degree ( C )or two ( F ) of the freezing point. Be certain specimens to be dried are absent surface moisture. Place mushrooms or herbs on racks or screens to allow air flow. Dehydration is usually very complete in 24 or more hours depending on size of load.

What happens is specimens begin to dry as usual, maintaining intracellular equilibrium with internal water wicking its way to the dryer outer surface. The relatively high temperature precludes a rapid enough 10 calorie exchange to form ice internally and if ice should form on the surface it does little or no damage.

Freezer dried specimens retain color and flavors much nicer. Mushrooms maintain a little more size for weight than heat dried

You will find every research laboratory will always freeze dry specimens suspected of containing oxygen sensitive compounds so they can be retained for analysis that would otherwise be destroyed by conventional means of dehydration

psilocybin has a melting point around 185°C to 220°C. Heat from dehydrating is not an issue, the oxygen IS


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.


Edited by WillSolvem (12/28/13 07:34 AM)


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InvisibleJ. Jack Flash
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19335999 - 12/28/13 08:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

woah.  those charts, incomprehensible to me right now.  too early in the morning.  i'm gonna chart it later on and see what happens.

so i started reading about freeze drying.  do you vacuum pack the fruit and place it in the freezer?  or do all the freezing, then pack them in vacuum to dry?  or freeze them all the way dry then vacuum?  i'm buying something today to give this process a shot.  i think i'll try apples and, of course, mushrooms.

thanks, man.


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19336073 - 12/28/13 08:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

J. Jack Flash said:
woah.  those charts, incomprehensible to me right now.  too early in the morning.  i'm gonna chart it later on and see what happens.

so i started reading about freeze drying.  do you vacuum pack the fruit and place it in the freezer?  or do all the freezing, then pack them in vacuum to dry?  or freeze them all the way dry then vacuum?  i'm buying something today to give this process a shot.  i think i'll try apples and, of course, mushrooms.

thanks, man.




Apple's and other fruits will do well, remember to use thermometer and dial it in to ~32-30°f for optimal sublimation and pat-dry the apples with a paper towel after cutting to reduce surface ice from developing. :thumbup:

As long as you're freezer is frost free just lay fruits on a tray, place in freezer and wait, when they are done store in vacuum bags.

Freezing under vacuum speeds the process but requires some equipment and mechanical aptitude but worth the effort IMO

I dry under vacuum and when I release the vacuum instead of just letting air to enter the chamber I hook a line from a argon canister (with inline drier) and purge the chamber with argon before opening. Then I stick them in a vacuum pack, add dessicator but before sealing and drawing vacuum I place a line from the argon can as far in as possible and inflate the bag with the gas, squeeze, re inflate a couple times then seal/vacuum.

Obviously I'm a bit anal about oxygen contamination but for only just advancing my dehydration technique has improved the potency of the end product more than any strain isolation, substrate additive, growing conditions, quanitive analysis, ect. ever has!

Play around with it, you will be impressed :thumbup:

I'll start a writeup for those who want pictures and step by step instructions


--------------------


AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.


Edited by WillSolvem (12/28/13 09:07 AM)


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19336135 - 12/28/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

How long does it take to dry a lb this way? Just curious  :munchies:


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19336256 - 12/28/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

far out, thanks again!  +5 for you whenever i get the priv.

:seriousthumbsup:

i do have a foodsaver and mason jar adapter, which i'll also goof around with.  i don't have argon, but there's a welding distributor near me.  suppose co2 would work as well?  thinking of constructing a kegerator anyway.  this might just advance that project's priority.

edit: fukinell, just took a temp reading of my freezer.  -9F.  had no idea it was so cold in there.  so if i raise that to just below the freezing point, everything in there is gonna melt, or just take forever to make ice.  gonna have to find a happy medium, or get another freezer.  hmmm.

edit edit: apologies for the overt threadjack.


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Edited by J. Jack Flash (12/28/13 09:53 AM)


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Offlinekaptanoblivious
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19336693 - 12/28/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
I'll start a writeup for those who want pictures and step by step instructions




That would be awesome 
:bigyesnod:


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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: J. Jack Flash]
    #19336694 - 12/28/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

death2u said:
How long does it take to dry a lb this way? Just curious  :munchies:




Depends on load, a lb in a regular freezer/fridge combo I would guess three days

Quote:

J. Jack Flash said:
far out, thanks again!  +5 for you whenever i get the priv.

:seriousthumbsup:

i do have a foodsaver and mason jar adapter, which i'll also goof around with.  i don't have argon, but there's a welding distributor near me.  suppose co2 would work as well?  thinking of constructing a kegerator anyway.  this might just advance that project's priority.

edit: fukinell, just took a temp reading of my freezer.  -9F.  had no idea it was so cold in there.  so if i raise that to just below the freezing point, everything in there is gonna melt, or just take forever to make ice.  gonna have to find a happy medium, or get another freezer.  hmmm.

edit edit: apologies for the overt threadjack.




Yea your ice cream is going to get a little soft and yea ice will take a little longer. You want to use an inert gas, argon is cheap if you have a tank, I bought mine on craigslist for $50. Like you said welding supply stores :thumbup:


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AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.


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OfflineGr13nMushDude
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Registered: 05/25/13
Posts: 76
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: kaptanoblivious]
    #19336855 - 12/28/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

kaptanoblivious said:
Quote:

WillSolvem said:
I'll start a writeup for those who want pictures and step by step instructions




That would be awesome 
:bigyesnod:



:whathesaid:


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OfflineTheMustardTiger
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Registered: 08/19/13
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Loc: Sunnyvale Trailer Park
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Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: WillSolvem]
    #19495495 - 01/30/14 08:47 AM (10 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

WillSolvem said:
Freeze dry, but purge with argon gas then vac pack and retain 100% psilocybin psilocin and baeocystin opposed to only psilocybin and trace psilocin.

You could keep struggling to find a potent strain/best substrate or you just stop destroying 80-90% of the actives contained in your product by drying in oxygen




Can anyone else confirm these numbers? I've been drying with a food dehydrator and have had no issues with potency; am I to understand that my fruits are capable of retaining 90 percent of active compounds? If I ate my fruits with an added 90 percent, i feel like that would be an overwhelming experience.


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus
Male


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Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,059
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Drying mushrooms question [Re: TheMustardTiger]
    #19496214 - 01/30/14 12:32 PM (10 years, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

MustardTiger66 said:
Quote:

WillSolvem said:
Freeze dry, but purge with argon gas then vac pack and retain 100% psilocybin psilocin and baeocystin opposed to only psilocybin and trace psilocin.

You could keep struggling to find a potent strain/best substrate or you just stop destroying 80-90% of the actives contained in your product by drying in oxygen




Can anyone else confirm these numbers? I've been drying with a food dehydrator and have had no issues with potency; am I to understand that my fruits are capable of retaining 90 percent of active compounds? If I ate my fruits with an added 90 percent, i feel like that would be an overwhelming experience.




I find this a little hard to believe.  I would say eating 7 to 8 grams of fresh shrooms is equal to about 1 gram dry in my experience.  I could try to do that math on that but I think realistically the number is much closer to 10% - 20%  I wonder if it's different for different species though.

I've air dried my shrooms in front of a fan for days and never had problems with potency either.


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