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OfflineLearyfan
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Nader got Bush elected bullshit
    #1933070 - 09/19/03 06:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Speaking of Nader inadvertently getting Bush elected, that's bullshit.

Ok, technically it's true, but I think it's a slant that the media ran with because they are controlled by the Democrats and Republicans and do not want to see a third party become increasingly popular.

So they came up with this slant on the situation to take the wind out of the sails of the third party movement.

I wonder if it worked? I guess we'll see 2004.






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Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1933079 - 09/19/03 06:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I have an Aunt who's totally PISSED about Nader. She thinks he should apologize for getting Bush elected.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: silversoul7]
    #1933089 - 09/19/03 06:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

See, mission accomplished. They got people to be pissed at Nader.

This will delay the acceptance of anyone who is halfway truthful. They won't have to debate subjects that both parties are afraid to.






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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1933095 - 09/19/03 06:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

While I admire Ralph Nader and his stances on the issues, I still can't help but wonder what might've happened if so many people hadn't voted for him. But then again, how can you blame a guy for running in an election? In fairness to the Republicans, I don't think they'd go around blaming Pat Buchanon if Bush lost.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinedomite
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1933104 - 09/19/03 06:26 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
Speaking of Nader inadvertently getting Bush elected, that's bullshit.
 




If it werent green I would vote liberatarian or even extremist...

wait...  can you vote for CPUSA?? :smirk: 


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1933176 - 09/19/03 06:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Nader did in the left.

Perot did in the right.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1933178 - 09/19/03 06:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

People shouldn't be complaining about Nader.

They should be questioning an electoral system that makes it so that if a larger segment of the population votes further left, it gives an advantage to the right.

Keep in mind, this can work both ways. By voting libertarian you are stealing votes from the republicans.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Phluck]
    #1933199 - 09/19/03 06:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
People shouldn't be complaining about Nader.



Debateable.

Quote:

They should be questioning an electoral system that makes it so that if a larger segment of the population votes further left, it gives an advantage to the right.



The system gives an advantage to neither side. It could just have easily have gone the other way. The only difference then would be which side was whining over an election which was run in accordance with existing election law.

Quote:

Keep in mind, this can work both ways. By voting libertarian you are stealing votes from the republicans.



It happened with Perot.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1933234 - 09/19/03 07:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'm donating money to the greens just in case :smile:


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OfflineMitchnast
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1933243 - 09/19/03 07:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

nader is a clever man with REAL integrity


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1933268 - 09/19/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

So we agree completely, then.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Phluck]
    #1933288 - 09/19/03 07:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Not completely.

I think the system worked as designed.

It could use some improvments, such as an instant runoff so no-one gets in with less than 50%


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineZahid
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Learyfan]
    #1933443 - 09/19/03 08:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Ralph Nader looks alot like Jack Kerouac.



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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: Phluck]
    #1933986 - 09/20/03 12:38 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Phluck said:
People shouldn't be complaining about Nader.

They should be questioning an electoral system that makes it so that if a larger segment of the population votes further left, it gives an advantage to the right.

Keep in mind, this can work both ways. By voting libertarian you are stealing votes from the republicans.




People SHOULD be complaining about Nader but they should ALSO be working to modernize the electoral system.

I had an argument with a friend about this before the 2000 election. He was spouting the old Nader line about how "there's no difference between the two parties." My argument at the time was that even if it means that only ONE fewer person dies needlessly, that is a difference. That is a significant and meaningful difference. If the past three years haven't taught you yet that there IS a difference, I don't know what will.

Nader got something like six or seven thousand votes in Florida alone. Without that swing Gore would have won the state, even WITH the "Old Jewish ladies voting for Buchanan in Dade Country" shenanigans that were going on.

Right now, the FIRST PRIORITY of the left in the US must be to remove Bush from office. If he pulls off this much bullshit in his first term, just imagine what he'll do when he doesn't have a re-election to worry about. There come times in life when you have to put your dreams aside for a moment and deal with REALITY in order to salvage it from becoming a nightmare. When your house is being rocked by a 7.3 earthquake, that's not the time to worry about renovating the interior--just save your fucking life first, and then worry about that shit.

Anybody who votes for Nader in the next election is a naive, misguided fool. I could understand why someone might have done it in 2000, but to do so in 2004 would be a sign of an obtuseness that defies comprehension.

As far as electoral systems go, I personally favor a proportional representation system for the legislature and instant runoffs for national presidential elections. But most Americans are so wedded to the idea that everything about their political system is perfection itself that I highly doubt there would be widespread support for reform.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1934081 - 09/20/03 01:37 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah Dems never go to war. :rolleyes:

Has anyone noticed that the Dems are not trying to change the system? They know it could turn out in their favor next time. Getting rid of the electoral college might prove pretty damn difficult since it would require a constitutional amendment.


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Offlinedomite
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: shakta]
    #1934323 - 09/20/03 03:14 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

"Yeah Dems never go to war."

exactly.
Sure, there is a difference between what will happen when a Democrat or a Republican wins the race, but nobody has any idea what that difference will be.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: domite]
    #1935325 - 09/20/03 01:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I harbor no illusions about any of the Democratic candidates being perfect, but I'm convinced by now that ANY one of them would be better than Bush. Even Al Sharpton(actually, that would make for some great entertainment over the next 4 years).


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlineshakta
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Re: Nader got Bush elected bullshit [Re: silversoul7]
    #1935354 - 09/20/03 01:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, especially when he takes more of our money to give as reperations. I so hope Dean gets the nomination.


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