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bombnigeria
Citizen of Earth



Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 29
Last seen: 10 years, 22 days
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Deleted *DELETED*
#19329291 - 12/26/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by bombnigeriaReason for deletion: k
-------------------- "Eff the haters, go live your life! β₯" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Edited by bombnigeria (12/27/13 03:20 AM)
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: bombnigeria]
#19329316 - 12/26/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bombnigeria said: If there was no such thing as consciousness, would the universe even exist? How would we know?
Nobody thought the rope a dope would work. But it did.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: bombnigeria]
#19329336 - 12/26/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bombnigeria said: If there was no such thing as consciousness, would the universe even exist? How would we know?
manifest from observing (quantum mechanics)
but without consciousness nothing would manifest everything would be an infinite stream of possibilities, located everywhere in space
... but that is just if you subscribe to consciousness being all there is (i.e. simulated reality)
to a child a cat is a natural thing, but to a physicist a cat is an enormously complicated system I like my cats real, just observe and enjoy else quantum mechanics say they are everywhere in space ;-) you and I are everywhere in space too
unless you subscribe to the copenhagen interpretation saying QM should only apply to small systems
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: bombnigeria]
#19329445 - 12/26/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bombnigeria said: If there was no such thing as consciousness, would the universe even exist? How would we know?
You seem to be saying the universe and consciousness are two different things.
What if there is only one thing, and to us there is normally an apparent difference in our minds.
To suggest that the two are fundamentally different things is a fragmentation. And fragmentation is not natural -- wherever one finds it on Earth, it was put there by us.
The universe and consciousness constitute one basic objective reality. It would not even be correct to say that each one needs the other to exist. Once you reach a certain point, one is unable to differentiate the two.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: bombnigeria] 1
#19329919 - 12/26/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bombnigeria said: If there was no such thing as consciousness, would the universe even exist? How would we know?
Yes. When you die the world keeps turning. It was existing long before you gained unconscious, and will long after. It doesn't care about you at all.
--------------------
You are not special
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
#19330023 - 12/26/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: quinn]
#19330057 - 12/26/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:

Yes so don't feel special. I on the other hand have Ben & Jerry's New York Super Duper Fudge and will soon be consuming the entire pint. Nothing more special in the universe than that stuff.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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bombnigeria
Citizen of Earth



Registered: 12/16/13
Posts: 29
Last seen: 10 years, 22 days
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
#19330172 - 12/26/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tymoteusz3 said:
Quote:
bombnigeria said: If there was no such thing as consciousness, would the universe even exist? How would we know?
Yes. When you die the world keeps turning. It was existing long before you gained unconscious, and will long after. It doesn't care about you at all. 
Okay. How do we know? How do you know the universe doesn't just exist in your mind?
I believe the universe does exist because it's easier, I'm just saying. And are you aware of the phaneron?
-------------------- "Eff the haters, go live your life! β₯" - Friedrich Nietzsche
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: bombnigeria]
#19330190 - 12/26/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bombnigeria said:
Quote:
tymoteusz3 said:
Quote:
bombnigeria said: If there was no such thing as consciousness, would the universe even exist? How would we know?
Yes. When you die the world keeps turning. It was existing long before you gained unconscious, and will long after. It doesn't care about you at all. 
Okay. How do we know? How do you know the universe doesn't just exist in your mind?
Because there is no evidence of that, and all evidence to the contrary.
--------------------
You are not special
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
#19330195 - 12/26/13 07:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tymoteusz3 said: Because there is no evidence of that, and all evidence to the contrary.
Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
What evidence is there that the world exists outside of your mind? How could you possibly gather said evidence, except by use of your perception?
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: bombnigeria]
#19330207 - 12/26/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Humans are not the center of existence itself, the universe doesn't revolve around you, get over yourself
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19330255 - 12/26/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't believe he said that humans are the center of existence. Humans are not necessarily the only conscious beings. He posed a very reasonable question: can the Universe exist without consciousness? The plain fact of the matter is that the only Universe we know is the one which exists in our senses.
As a wise man once said, "All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be."
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#19330280 - 12/26/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Quote:
quinn said:

Yes so don't feel special. I on the other hand have Ben & Jerry's New York Super Duper Fudge and will soon be consuming the entire pint. Nothing more special in the universe than that stuff.
agreed.. altho we have this icecream place which has gone viral in australia called messina.. they have salted caramel with white choc flakes and i can assure you it is more special
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: NetDiver]
#19330294 - 12/26/13 07:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
tymoteusz3 said: Because there is no evidence of that, and all evidence to the contrary.
Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
What evidence is there that the world exists outside of your mind? How could you possibly gather said evidence, except by use of your perception?
devil's advocate's advocate - how do you know you have a mind?
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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LittleDipster


Registered: 06/18/10
Posts: 4,141
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: NetDiver]
#19330311 - 12/26/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
tymoteusz3 said: Because there is no evidence of that, and all evidence to the contrary.
Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
What evidence is there that the world exists outside of your mind? How could you possibly gather said evidence, except by use of your perception?
theres like video cameras and stuff
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: quinn] 1
#19330324 - 12/26/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
quinn said:
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
tymoteusz3 said: Because there is no evidence of that, and all evidence to the contrary.
Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.
What evidence is there that the world exists outside of your mind? How could you possibly gather said evidence, except by use of your perception?
devil's advocate's advocate - how do you know you have a mind?
How do you know that you know that you don't know that you know or may not know what you think you know?
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: NetDiver]
#19330334 - 12/26/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: As a wise man once said, "All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be."
he was a tireless perv and chronic masturbator
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19330338 - 12/26/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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google
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: quinn]
#19330346 - 12/26/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i wasnt trying to be facetious though i genuinely think a lot of mind related ideas are bunk
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: quinn]
#19330352 - 12/26/13 08:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That was a real sentence
Albeit not a serious question
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19330361 - 12/26/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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questions, sentences, fuck i'm not even making sense to myself anymore
What am I doing in a PSP thread on acid anyway
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19330434 - 12/26/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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saving lives.. that's what we do here and dont you forget it
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: LittleDipster]
#19331493 - 12/27/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
LittleDipster said: theres like video cameras and stuff
The recording's existence and its contents can only be verified if someone looks at it, though. 
Quote:
quinn said: devil's advocate's advocate - how do you know you have a mind?
I don't really claim to have a mind, I'm only speaking in the commonly used sense of the word, meaning "sense perception/consciousness." If you want to look at the literal meaning of it, the very idea of "having a mind" is contradictory. What am I, if not my mind? And if I am my mind, then how can I have a mind?
Either way, those questions are less ontological and more related to defining personal identity. Call it "my mind" or call it "the raw sense data which makes up the world and is indistinguishable from the physical world," what I deny is simply a separation between mind and matter.
Edited by NetDiver (12/27/13 02:20 AM)
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quinn
some kinda love


Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 6,799
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: NetDiver]
#19333878 - 12/27/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i agree Samurai that fundamentally there is no separation between mind and matter.
and i feel fundamentally when most distinctions are scrutinized they become shapeless things.
in a context of talking personality, intentions, thoughts, ideas etc the concept of mind can be useful. when talking about physics and the way the observable world interacts, matter can be useful.
i feel if you explore from either point of departure the ideas will change, matter will become less firm say when you get into quantum mechanics, mind might seem much less obvious in the context of broader society.
i feel that the social aspect of mind is often neglected in related discussions and can lead to solipsistic or nihilistic perspectives. it's like 'here i am with this mind filled with sensory stuff' like some isolated capsule of experience.
while we are all separate and live within our own unique worlds, our worlds are also informed by those around us, the world collectively created by the people before us, a culture, a language, tools we use to navigate and transform not only the physical but social world. we are both biological beings and players in a collective game and without that game we would be nothing at all imo.
-------------------- dripping with fantasy
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teknix
πβπ
’ππ
π°π‘ πΌπ⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Does the universe continue on with or without us? [Re: bombnigeria]
#19333925 - 12/27/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wonder the post was deleted, it is a good question imo.
It questions the role of the observer and there have been multiple versions/interpretations of qm because of it.
IE; Copenhagen, Bohm and Many Worlds.
Edited by teknix (12/27/13 06:14 PM)
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