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Zarotti
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Are psychedelics safer in large doses ?
#19327779 - 12/26/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I read this - Is it true?
I think psychedelics are safer in large doses(i'm not talking about thumbprint sizes though) as far as bad trips go. They override your ego's defenses in large enough doses. you can't think your having a bad trip because you can't think at all beacause there is no you. Terrance McKenna and Andrew Weil MD have said this also.
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Zarotti]
#19327786 - 12/26/13 06:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Perhaps, in a sense, but it doesn't mean a large dose is going to be smooth sailing.
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Smeagol
Poke my 3rd eye


Registered: 04/14/13
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19327865 - 12/26/13 07:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would say for certain people. Physically they are safe. Mentally it depends on the person. ive seen people basically lose their shit on a 3.5. I read a report somewhere that someone screwed up their math and ate to many shrooms. The only thing they remember is a dragon talking about how great shit was and they ate their own shit or something. They messed up the conversion from dry to wet or something. went to eat 1 and ended up eating 10g worth.
-------------------- The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but it is not paved with clarity.” -Terence "If you're not peaking what the fuck are you doing?" Dude on facebook
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Aopocetx
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Smeagol]
#19327874 - 12/26/13 07:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Smeagol said: I would say for certain people. Physically they are safe. Mentally it depends on the person. ive seen people basically lose their shit on a 3.5. I read a report somewhere that someone screwed up their math and ate to many shrooms. The only thing they remember is a dragon talking about how great shit was and they ate their own shit or something. They messed up the conversion from dry to wet or something. went to eat 1 and ended up eating 10g worth.
Haha a shit dragon! Awesome.
To the OP, I think in a way that's true but there's still potential for bad trips. For example clinging to 'who you are.' Either way you need to have a stable mind.
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blckmynnse8
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19327883 - 12/26/13 07:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Into The Woods said: Perhaps, in a sense, but it doesn't mean a large dose is going to be smooth sailing.
You just can't jump straight into it, that's for certain. Basically what begins to happen is all of this stuff comes bubbling to the surface that manifests in the form of things like muscle spasms, anxiety, and other unpleasant symptoms. You need to face and resolve issues of your past at a pace you can handle. Essentially you will need to bring yourself to the point where you are not afraid of dying, because the last gasps of your ego and lower animal instincts will throw everything they have at you. This can come in the form of horrific images and feeling like you are going to die.
It's like being inside a tornado of random images, sounds, etc...
THEN all of that comes to and end and you are in new territory. Beyond this point it isn't really for other people to tell you what to do or what you will experience because anything told to you on the temporal level by humans will be flawed.
This stuff used to scare me long ago, but after a graduated process it has been one of the greatest rewards.
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: blckmynnse8]
#19327929 - 12/26/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The gif in your signature really worked for that post, haha
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GoldenEye
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19328014 - 12/26/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's never the peak that's difficult. It's always the onset or the comedown. The shoulders. I think this is not dependent on dose. Whatever dose you have, it'll have to come on (stronger would be easier due to sheer speed of onset but also more terrifying due to this) and you'll have to come down.
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Aopocetx
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: GoldenEye]
#19328149 - 12/26/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenEye said: It's never the peak that's difficult. It's always the onset or the comedown. The shoulders. I think this is not dependent on dose. Whatever dose you have, it'll have to come on (stronger would be easier due to sheer speed of onset but also more terrifying due to this) and you'll have to come down.
I actually came here to post this. Yeah, on a large dose you might trip out so hard that only after you will be like "whoa." But when you start coming down a little is when you have the potential to start thinking negative thoughts, etc. I find that (this goes for any trip) if you notice yourself thinking about something bad, tell yourself that this is not the time to be thinking about it and move on to something positive. Whatever thought you focus on is gonna get intensified. It's different if you actually trip IN ORDER to solve those problems, however.
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19328503 - 12/26/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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In a sense but consider the comeup and comedown. I have gotten thoroughly fucked on the comedown of a level 5 trip before even though the peak was beyond words
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HarryL
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19328528 - 12/26/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You have to make it to ego death first... It's like a mountain.... Might be hard going up or down, but the peak is nice if you have enough oxygen! ie, even high doses, have some time you have to function before ego death might put you into a better place then you have to come back....
Serious... No dose is unsafe.... And one persons bad trip is another enlightenment.... Just a lot of people underestimate the power of mushrooms, trip when they shouldn't or where they shouldn't or mix drugs and end up with issues....
Set and setting.... If you don't want bad trips... Work in set and setting... Listen to your inner voice, the one telling you Don't Trip now, and trip responsibly
Just my 2 cents
Peace
-------------------- Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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Zarotti
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: HarryL]
#19328562 - 12/26/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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so the up- and comedowns can be the worst part of the trip...
DMT should eliminate these two things. I read a ton of DMT trip reports and they always get blasted into space right away.
btw: I have a TON of respect for psychedelics and never took more than 0,1 to 0.3 grams of shrooms.
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GoldenEye
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Zarotti]
#19329020 - 12/26/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That might be a little too respectful - not really, always do what feels comfortable.
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GoldenEye
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: GoldenEye]
#19329025 - 12/26/13 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Come ups and comedowns represent the challenges of letting go and integrating and embracing.
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allseeingike



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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Zarotti]
#19329220 - 12/26/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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in my experience it gets so intense and horrible that it cant possibly get anyworse and you realize that theres nothing you can do about it except let go and "die" but dont think it will come easily or quick be prepared to experience something so bad it makes hell seem like disneyland. and expect it to last at least all of eternity before you let go and it becomes everything
but yeah basically it gets to be so much of a bad trip that its not bad anymore because there is nothing for you to hold on to
as far as physical safety they are supposed to be safe in just about any dose ( no deaths from it) but be wary taking large doses of anything and always make sure you know exactly what you have
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: allseeingike]
#19329432 - 12/26/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
allseeingike said: in my experience it gets so intense and horrible that it cant possibly get anyworse and you realize that theres nothing you can do about it except let go and "die" but dont think it will come easily or quick be prepared to experience something so bad it makes hell seem like disneyland. and expect it to last at least all of eternity before you let go and it becomes everything
but yeah basically it gets to be so much of a bad trip that its not bad anymore because there is nothing for you to hold on to
as far as physical safety they are supposed to be safe in just about any dose ( no deaths from it) but be wary taking large doses of anything and always make sure you know exactly what you have
Yeah this describes my ayahuasca experiences to a T. Honestly that struggle is where the most valuable experience comes. Not in the visuals or crazy thoughts, but in learning to let go and accept your fate
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GreySatyr
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Most are physically safe in large doses but not all. The most common ones duh as DMT, psilocybin, LSD are all physically safe. Mescaline is also physically safe but not as safe as the others. There is some kind of index or chart on it floating around on the net. Basically mescaline is still really safe.
There's only like two psychedelics that I've ever heard of being physically dangerous.
Mentally, danger is subjective in the mind.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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Galaxytripper
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: GreySatyr]
#19329879 - 12/26/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think it's dangerous to talk about large and small doses. How are you measuring what you consider large or small? Weight? That's dangerous in itself. Never under-estimate mushrooms. The amount of psilocybin/psilocin can't necessarily be determined by weight. You may be judging things by dried weight from perhaps a consistent past experience: -Oh, one gram of this gets you to this level, two gets you here. It does not necessarily work like that, or even at all. The day you take two grams of cyanescens, and just one of those grams contains a shitload more of active ingredient than another gram, and what you thought was going to be nice gradual, pleasant trip, can quickly turn into an experience that completely freaks you out, even if you are experienced. I took a gram of cyanescens once, picked near a church in a park. (had planned to take three) Spiritual vibrations, I thought. Chewed by mouth, they would normally take about 40 minutes to even start kicking in. After just 15 minutes, the kitchen door frame began to take on an electric green radioactive glow. I began to grow really cold, and started to get the shakes. My stomach started to ripple, and I felt really bad, and in a really strange and foggy head space in a really short space of time. I thought: this is not right. I'm experienced but had not expected an onset either so quick, or of such power. I got freaked out and shook violently for 30 minutes. I had to grab a blanket and lie down on the sofa. That was bad. I began to envision death near. The good news was that after that, this really bad part of the trip gave way to the real trip, the warm and fuzzy, a wave of pure incredible brain bliss that left me speechless (in company) for about 5 hours, plus incredible visuals. On the one hand, there's always a tradeoff, bad taste, perhaps nausea, but something you're usually prepared to do to gain the other part of the equation, the trip, the whole purpose. However, don't judge mushrooms by weight. It may not mean a thing, (esp. if you're selling, -beware, you have some responsibility here) unless you've ground or dusted it all up, and it's all homogenized, and you've tried it, you don't know what the effect of even two small individual cyanescens can have. Last year, in a similar episode, but not a bad one, I took just two small cyans. Totally unexpectedly, they put me on my ear, and babbling incoherently like a baby, with the side of my face on the floor. So again, careful with those reliable weight calculations.
Edited by Galaxytripper (12/26/13 06:06 PM)
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GreySatyr
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Galaxytripper]
#19329928 - 12/26/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cubes are less potent than cyans.
Weight is the most reliable way to measure a dosage. It's really the only way unless its an extraction. Also, there is a general acceptance of what a large and small dose is in terms of weight.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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Galaxytripper
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Galaxytripper]
#19329961 - 12/26/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Weight measures the weight of the shrooms, not the psilocybin. Unless we have a way to measure that, we don't have a reliable way to to measure dosage.
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KingKnowledge
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Galaxytripper]
#19330038 - 12/26/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Most people will tell you that if you eat enough acid, its a lot easier to let go. However, I find that I can easily go into a relaxed mindset with even 1 hit.
Just a matter of personal opinion and how you react mentally to strong doses. In the sense that you're completely overwhelmed and brought into the trip quicker, yes, high doses are better for entering the psychedelic headspace I'd say
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GreySatyr
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Galaxytripper]
#19330180 - 12/26/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Galaxytripper said: Weight measures the weight of the shrooms, not the psilocybin. Unless we have a way to measure that, we don't have a reliable way to to measure dosage.
That's my point...
Weight is the most reliable way. Generally a certain species contains a certain amount of active ingredient, average that by weight and you have a fairly accurate dosage. It's more common to have weak shrooms than super powered fly to the moon shrooms.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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DennisWilson420



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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: GoldenEye]
#19330442 - 12/26/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenEye said: It's never the peak that's difficult. It's always the onset or the comedown. The shoulders. I think this is not dependent on dose. Whatever dose you have, it'll have to come on (stronger would be easier due to sheer speed of onset but also more terrifying due to this) and you'll have to come down.
I agree with the peak being more pleasant than the come up, but the come down? I think that's the most pleasant part. In my experience, the comedown is filled with immense euphoria and giddiness. The onset is the only part that I feel sucks about a mushroom trip. I get nauseous and antsy.
The whole experience reminds me of when I first started going on rollercoasters. Waiting in line and coming up the roller coaster was always filled with nervousness and fear. The drop itself (the peak), would be intense, but intense to the point where I forgot to feel fear, and after the drop and the ride (the comedown) I felt a rush of excitement that made me want to do it again.
But it's subjective.
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GoldenEye
...



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I've had some of the best comedowns too.
All I was saying is that if there are problems, they are, for me at least, never on the peak.
If there are problems it is either a problem of letting go (onset) or integration (comedown) or embracing a new lesson or feeling (comedown).
Usually I have good trips and coming down is also very pleasant because you can start to do more and more things whilst still tapping into that psychedelic mindstate.
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setb
10th level beer nerd
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I think the onset is awesome, you get this overwhelming rush of euphoria that gets more and more intense until you peak.
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nooneman


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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Zarotti]
#19331765 - 12/27/13 05:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No.
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happygolucky
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19331836 - 12/27/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said:
Quote:
GoldenEye said: It's never the peak that's difficult. It's always the onset or the comedown. The shoulders. I think this is not dependent on dose. Whatever dose you have, it'll have to come on (stronger would be easier due to sheer speed of onset but also more terrifying due to this) and you'll have to come down.
I actually came here to post this. Yeah, on a large dose you might trip out so hard that only after you will be like "whoa." But when you start coming down a little is when you have the potential to start thinking negative thoughts, etc. I find that (this goes for any trip) if you notice yourself thinking about something bad, tell yourself that this is not the time to be thinking about it and move on to something positive. Whatever thought you focus on is gonna get intensified. It's different if you actually trip IN ORDER to solve those problems, however.
That's how I felt the other night. I would be feeling so amazing, then if a bad thought or memory would start to come into my mind, I would quickly go back to what was positive. Good advice.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Zarotti]
#19331857 - 12/27/13 06:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Zarotti said: I read this - Is it true?
I think psychedelics are safer in large doses(i'm not talking about thumbprint sizes though) as far as bad trips go. They override your ego's defenses in large enough doses. you can't think your having a bad trip because you can't think at all beacause there is no you. Terrance McKenna and Andrew Weil MD have said this also.
Yes nothing safer than taking 1000ug of LSD and formatting the brain
if you dont mind taking a lifetime to integrate :-)
it wont be without suffering, but if it is worth it is up to you
personally I like 3 hits always of average hits, cant trip with less
take the red pill, 3+ hits of "high dose" LSD (hofmanns)
Edited by lessismore (12/27/13 06:18 AM)
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JacksonMetaller
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Quote:
DennisWilson420 said:
Quote:
GoldenEye said: It's never the peak that's difficult. It's always the onset or the comedown. The shoulders. I think this is not dependent on dose. Whatever dose you have, it'll have to come on (stronger would be easier due to sheer speed of onset but also more terrifying due to this) and you'll have to come down.
I agree with the peak being more pleasant than the come up, but the come down? I think that's the most pleasant part. In my experience, the comedown is filled with immense euphoria and giddiness. The onset is the only part that I feel sucks about a mushroom trip. I get nauseous and antsy.
The whole experience reminds me of when I first started going on rollercoasters. Waiting in line and coming up the roller coaster was always filled with nervousness and fear. The drop itself (the peak), would be intense, but intense to the point where I forgot to feel fear, and after the drop and the ride (the comedown) I felt a rush of excitement that made me want to do it again.
But it's subjective.
Most of the time. I have Totally lost my shit upon slipping out of a breakthrough. It's like coming down into a ten strip which is hardly a comedown but more of a completely scramble of your senses that are trying to piece reality back together
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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safer than what? LSD seems nonlethal at any reasonable dose (which will still be under a milligram - thousands of people have gone way beyond that (I think a waste of good LSD) but not suffered any physical harm), but not all psychedelics have this specific harmless characteristic, and most require much larger (bulkier) doses for any effect, sometimes introducing gut and neural chaos.
Also LSD has the fewest real physical side effects at any reasonable dose. (Most descriptions of Body Load are related more to the flood of sensations from a body usually ignored, than due to toxicity of any kind)
Next to LSD salvinorin-A also has no known lethal effects at any reasonable dosage and no particular innate body-load except for the psychonaut being mentally catapulted into a flood of sensations --- unlike LSD it is extremely rapid onsetting and very short acting and tastes awful.
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_ 🧠 _
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The Doobie Dude


Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 13,498
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: redgreenvines]
#19332357 - 12/27/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would agree I find lower doses to leave me questioning if I am tripping or not or if I am insane. At high doses I have completely given in and am at peace with everything.
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"There are a million reasons to drink and one just popped into my head. If a man can't drink when he's living how the Hell can he drink when he's dead?" - Irish Limerick I PLURed once because it was PLUR or die. - D.M.T.
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SkeletalSpore
♥$♄ґ◎◎мεя⑂♥



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Terrance McKenna said that people are taking too little of psychedelics and therefore resisting. If you take 5g of cuisines there's no way you can resist the drug and therefore you give in.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: SkeletalSpore]
#19332628 - 12/27/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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dont ask yourself if you should take 5g or a huge bongload of salvia
yourself will always try to talk you out of it, it doesnt like being destroyed
but your new self never regrets
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Notfromarkansas
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: lessismore]
#19332638 - 12/27/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No because that implys that they are dangerous at small doses which is ridiculous.
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: SkeletalSpore]
#19332838 - 12/27/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SkeletalSpore said: Terrance McKenna said that people are taking too little of psychedelics and therefore resisting. If you take 5g of cuisines there's no way you can resist the drug and therefore you give in.
Lol 5gs... Thatll get me real fucking silly and then some moments of nice introspection. Terrence McKenna wasn't exactly a heavy doser himself so I find that statement somewhat funny. The point of no resistance is far beyond that honestly. I've only reached it once during an extensive trip on ayahuasca. Even on a following journey where I took only slightly less my ego was battling for its life and that trip was still heavy enough to make 5gs look like child's play
Though the silent darkness may give some merit to the whole thing, still haven't tried that
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Zarotti
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wih safe I dont mean physical I mean psychological in terms of intense horror trips.
Yes I know the bad trips can be the most valueable but it not pleasant thinking about going to a place 9999x worse than hell. Damn I read so many trip reports and sweet baby jesus the things your read...
It seems like "letting yourself go" is one of he most important things when tripping.
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JacksonMetaller
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Re: Are psychedelics safer in large doses ? [Re: Zarotti]
#19336021 - 12/28/13 08:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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YeaQuote:
Zarotti said:
It seems like "letting yourself go" is one of he most important things when tripping.
Yes, tis ultimately the point of high doses and about the most important thing you'll ever gain from tripping.
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