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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19326006 - 12/25/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:


this is where the shaman is different from the saddhu, rather than making a show of subjugating the body's physicality, he/she will use the insight of the two minds to get beyond the limitation of ego.

what the saddhu is doing is not riding the elephant, but training a virtual elephant to ride the elephant. it is a ludicrously silly approach to liberation. It would make any shaman crack up with insane laughter - especially to see the acolytes taking the whole venture seriously.





Now you are using ego to mean two different things, once you claimed it as automation, then next you say it is the illusion of self. I'll have to look up what saddhu means, as I've never heard it before.




to get beyond the limitation of automation
one thing
ego
automation

(your automation is trying to pick my clarity apart, no?)




Automation to me is the autonomic system, like your heartbeat, if you mean something else then please clarify.

If you don't mean something else, then why call it the ego?

Am I trying to pick your clarity apart or am I trying to clear the murk from the water to achieve clarity?

I don't understand why you are calling the autonomous system the ego, when automation serves the purpose just fine. Then what are we to call the residual self-image in infinite regression?


Edited by teknix (12/25/13 03:57 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: teknix]
    #19326271 - 12/25/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

everything that you learn, which becomes automatic is the automation.
all the coordinated activities, including habits of speech, habits of thought, and even walking and going to the toilet become the automation of the self.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19326405 - 12/25/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Point taken, but what are we to call the residual self-image in infinite regression?

What confuses me is that you wrote "automation (ego)", sif it is to be considered the same?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19326479 - 12/25/13 06:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Are we talking about different things?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: teknix]
    #19326511 - 12/25/13 06:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Tell me if this makes sense to you:

You don't exist = false

You doesn't exist = true

Replacing "you" with "I".


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: teknix]
    #19326577 - 12/25/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Point taken, but what are we to call the residual self-image in infinite regression?

What confuses me is that you wrote "automation (ego)", sif it is to be considered the same?



yes the same thing

Quote:

teknix said:
Tell me if this makes sense to you:

You don't exist = false

You doesn't exist = true

Replacing "you" with "I".




only as a linguistic game.

what ever you think of is real.
you are real
these are closer to true


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19326602 - 12/25/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nah, there is something much deeper than a linguistic game going on here.

Truly consider what is this "I" pointing at?

That "I" is the residual self-image that I was calling the ego, that you are likely perceiving everything through as a filter or lens.

It doesn't really exist, even though you do exist.


Edited by teknix (12/25/13 07:29 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: teknix]
    #19326678 - 12/25/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Don't analyse it, look at it, internally. Overanalyzing and arrogance would prevent you from seeing what I'm talking about.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: teknix]
    #19326706 - 12/25/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

We're not looking for an "intellectual" understanding here, we are looking for the root of this "I", and what it is pointing at.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19327595 - 12/26/13 03:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

moving towards a nobler attitude than you had before?

but possibly sliding off topic in the process.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19328179 - 12/26/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know if it is off-topic if it is what the shaman see's, the awareness beyond the ego. How can you know what a shaman see's, if you don't see what he see's. A seeing is what he see's, an understanding is not necessary until after the seeing takes place, then the understanding can be attempted to be worked out.


Edited by teknix (12/26/13 10:06 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: teknix]
    #19333545 - 12/27/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I really liked this guy


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OfflineSycoNautix
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19333668 - 12/27/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
"Every one of us human beings has two minds.  One is totally ours, and it is like a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose.  The other mind is a foreign installation.  It brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness."  --Yaqui Shaman Don Juan






So pretty much the shaman acknowledges that he possesses a sort of bipolarity within.


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: the shaman sees two minds [Re: SycoNautix]
    #19333678 - 12/27/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You simplify things too much... you would see bipolarity in everything... and not only two minds... think of consciousness as a endless bag of coins... all two sides..


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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