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topdog82
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Is eating meat healthier?
#19322524 - 12/24/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have been vegatarian for a while now. I can't remember how long now. Probably 1-2 years. I grew up in a vegatarian household though so it is a lot easier than it seems to be for others
Anyways. I can't help but feel like my muscles are generally pretty small. I see my brother in illinois every 3 months when we all head home for thanksgiving and holidays. We always get into little strength battles here and there and he has always won. Only recently when I have been really pushing my workouts in the past year have I beaten him in a show of strength. Ie we push against each other or wrestle. He is 21 and I am 19. But he drinks heavily, eats tons of meat (white and red), and never works out. I on the other hand eat nothing but healthy food, workout (dips, pushups, pullups, etc. yoga, run, bikram yoga, plank, wall sit, squats, gym once a week, but usually things that dont require a gym), meditate, and dont drink at all. I only vaporize weed, at that 4 times a week, kratom 3 times a week. Yes, I eat black beans, brown rice, quinoa, eggs occassionally, hemp protien shakes, flaxseed and cottage cheese.
It also seems like other peers my age who don't workout, and eat pretty heavy meats are stronger than me. They also drink and smoke A LOT more than me. They seem to be stronger as well
keep in mind, I feel GREAT! I feel physically fit, in shape, and content with life in general. I would say i am healthier. But carnivorous diets seem to yield more muscle. Even though I make sure to get proper protien intake
Am I just genetically low in testosterone or soemthing?
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Shroomism
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82] 1
#19322536 - 12/24/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well for one, if you are fully vegetarian, are you making sure you are doing it RIGHT and getting ALL the nutrients (B vitamins, iron, etc) and complete proteins you are missing from meat? A lot of vegetarians fuck that up hard.. although it sounds like you probably are.
It also sounds like the exercises you are doing are more cardio/toning oriented. Maybe try some lifting.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Shroomism]
#19322553 - 12/24/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Well for one, if you are fully vegetarian, are you making sure you are doing it RIGHT and getting ALL the nutrients (B vitamins, iron, etc) and complete proteins you are missing from meat? A lot of vegetarians fuck that up hard.. although it sounds like you probably are.
It also sounds like the exercises you are doing are more cardio/toning oriented. Maybe try some lifting.
I was thinking the same. Lots of cardio, and i am missing the lifting. But even people who DON'T lift get better results than me
Also, could you detail what complete protiens I could be missing? How could i do vegatarian right? Any tips would be appreciated
on a side note, my body has been getting pretty damn toned in the past year. And proportionally I have been beating my bro physically. I look in the mirror, and I have a perfect body. Not braggin or anything. Nice chest, decent arms, and abs are nice too. Not six pack tho
And I feel that fat people who simply eat a lot of meat are able to outsretgnth me
Makes me question the premise that vegatarianism is THAT much more healthy than carnivorous diet. Healthier maybe, but not THAT much healthier
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Spiderbaby
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Shroomism] 1
#19322555 - 12/24/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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How fat are your cousins? You could be stronger than them per kg body weight but they could simple weigh a lot more and so be stronger over all. Sounds likely if they have a shite diet and no exercise.
Why am I on this, time to fall asleep, it's Christmas morning, there's serious drinking to be done
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19322558 - 12/24/13 06:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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To answer your question.. eating meat isn't necessarily healthier. But meat contains COMPLETE proteins, and important vitamins/minerals. It can be difficult to substitute meat completely.. but it can be done if you are smart about it.
Although I must say, I've seen more "vegetarians" with health problems, due to not eating properly. Just because you don't eat meat, doesn't mean you are healthier. In fact if you don't eat meat, you have to take more extensive measures to make sure you are getting everything in your diet. That said, there are world class vegetarian body builders out there. Look into their diet.
There's nothing wrong with eating meat. It's what humans have done to survive since before human civilization. And up until about 50-100 years ago, being 100% vegetarian was pretty much impossible for 99% of the world. The only reason being vegetarian is easier in modern society, is because of grocery stores and the like, and being able to get food from anywhere in the world. Just some food for thought.
Although the differences between you and your brother could be totally metabolism or body chemistry related.
I can't really help with diet suggestions... I tried being vegetarian for a while.. for one it was too expensive for me.. for two my body craved meat too much after a while. But I do know you need to at least replace the iron (tons of leafy greens and legumes, tomatoes, olives, apricots, etc). You need to get all your B vitamins (VERY important) and you need complete proteins. Hemp seed is a perfect complete protein for human consumption so you got it right there. Or mixing beans and rice creates a complete protein.
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TopPmz
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19322573 - 12/24/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Vegetarianism isn't healthier at all, depending on what kind and how much meat the omnivore eats.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Shroomism]
#19322579 - 12/24/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: To answer your question.. eating meat isn't necessarily healthier. But meat contains COMPLETE proteins, and important vitamins/minerals. It can be difficult to substitute meat completely.. but it can be done if you are smart about it.
Although I must say, I've seen more "vegetarians" with health problems, due to not eating properly. Just because you don't eat meat, doesn't mean you are healthier. In fact if you don't eat meat, you have to take more extensive measures to make sure you are getting everything in your diet. That said, there are world class vegetarian body builders out there. Look into their diet.
There's nothing wrong with eating meat. It's what humans have done to survive since before human civilization. And up until about 50-100 years ago, being 100% vegetarian was pretty much impossible for 99% of the world. The only reason being vegetarian is easier in modern society, is because of grocery stores and the like, and being able to get food from anywhere in the world. Just some food for thought.
Although the differences between you and your brother could be totally metabolism or body chemistry related.
true true.
Also, maybe I simply don't eat enough. and my race has to be taken into account. I am indian, and my genes are probably shit for body building
I need to look into the bodybuilders diet, and check it out. once again, any extra help or advice is appreciated
It is more of an ethical/environemntal aspect than for health. I highly doubt that vegatarians are that much healthy than if you literally just ate "whole meats" ie. good quality chicken, unprocessed meats, unprocessed vegatables
The real modern day enemy is just unprocessed foods imo. Not meats (this statement is my opinion and should be taken in conetxt of health. Not environment)
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gman7104

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Spiderbaby]
#19322582 - 12/24/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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First of all, don't use others to compare your results of dieting. People have different genetics, especially when it comes to muscle growth. Some people just naturally put on more muscle.
Now like someone else said, it's ok to be on a vegetarian diet but you MUST take in all the essential nutrients.
Protein is the biggest one. Make sure you eat lots of Quinoa! It contains tons of protein and amino acids that are usually found in meat that vegetarians may lack.
I don't know what plant contains lots of creatine, which is the other essential for muscle growth, but you can take creatine supplements and you should notice a difference, just make sure you keep exercising and eating a proper balanced diet.
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Shroomism
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19322592 - 12/24/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I definitely hear you there and agree wholeheartedly.
http://vegetarianbodybuilder.com/115.html https://www.sunwarrior.com/news/build-muscles-as-a-vegan-or-vegetarian/
I believe the best results come from eating a healthy and DIVERSE diet - just like any diet , meat based or not.
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gman7104

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: gman7104]
#19322598 - 12/24/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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After completely reading your post, I think it's simply genetics. There is actually an enzyme that regulates how much muscle your body can put on at a time. Some people make less or more muscle than others.
If you feel happy and healthy, then your doing everything right.
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Moonshoe
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19322623 - 12/24/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was a vegetarian for two years. I personally have found I can not be strong, happy and healthy without meat.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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r00tuuu123
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19322632 - 12/24/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: I have been vegatarian for a while now. I can't remember how long now. Probably 1-2 years. I grew up in a vegatarian household though so it is a lot easier than it seems to be for others
Anyways. I can't help but feel like my muscles are generally pretty small. I see my brother in illinois every 3 months when we all head home for thanksgiving and holidays. We always get into little strength battles here and there and he has always won. Only recently when I have been really pushing my workouts in the past year have I beaten him in a show of strength. Ie we push against each other or wrestle. He is 21 and I am 19. But he drinks heavily, eats tons of meat (white and red), and never works out. I on the other hand eat nothing but healthy food, workout (dips, pushups, pullups, etc. yoga, run, bikram yoga, plank, wall sit, squats, gym once a week, but usually things that dont require a gym), meditate, and dont drink at all. I only vaporize weed, at that 4 times a week, kratom 3 times a week. Yes, I eat black beans, brown rice, quinoa, eggs occassionally, hemp protien shakes, flaxseed and cottage cheese.
It also seems like other peers my age who don't workout, and eat pretty heavy meats are stronger than me. They also drink and smoke A LOT more than me. They seem to be stronger as well
keep in mind, I feel GREAT! I feel physically fit, in shape, and content with life in general. I would say i am healthier. But carnivorous diets seem to yield more muscle. Even though I make sure to get proper protien intake
Am I just genetically low in testosterone or soemthing?
The one thing you are probably low on is creatine people who eat red meat will always be stronger than those who do not. Your body does produce it but the extra you get from Red meat will make a difference. That and interstitial fat will make you stronger.
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Gorlax



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: r00tuuu123]
#19322666 - 12/24/13 07:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I learned from a very intelligent professor something that makes a lot of sense but is hard to explain without the background knowledge of micro RNA's. It's thought that the more removed another species genetic code is from our own the less likely that mutations in there code can incorporate themselves into ours. This is why fish is considered one of the best/healthiest foods because they have ancient genetic codes that share no similar targets than ours. Compare this to cow meat that has similar codes. You really need a strong background in nucleic proteins to truly understand this concept...
but yes removing meats is good but you must supplement all the essentials you lose.
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thelanzii

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Gorlax]
#19322759 - 12/24/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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very possible to be strong and healthy on a no meat diet. you just gotta do it right. Strength has many more variables then just what you eat.This guys diet is from primarily fruits. He dls 415 for reps at 148
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r00tuuu123
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19322826 - 12/24/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said: very possible to be strong and healthy on a no meat diet. you just gotta do it right. Strength has many more variables then just what you eat.This guys diet is from primarily fruits. He dls 415 for reps at 148
Some what impressive for someone in the 148 lb weight class but he hitched every rep and in a lifting competition he would have been red lighted. So no I stick with my story. Guys form was good but the first rep should have been like he was ripping an empty bar.
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Edited by r00tuuu123 (12/24/13 07:44 PM)
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thelanzii

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: r00tuuu123]
#19322891 - 12/24/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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yea the form isnt on point but still thats like 2.5 times his weight for reps this dude is vegan as well definitely possible if done right
Edited by thelanzii (12/24/13 07:51 PM)
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topdog82
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19322893 - 12/24/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I have given it some thought. I have read all of your posts and its a pain to quote induviduals and type a long post out because I am super stoned and on my iphone rather than my comp
But so I understand it, I think i may need to try out fish and a little more eggs
and the post in regards to micro RNA, my uncle was explaining this to me as well. didnt understnad it fiully, but he gave me a basic rundown of the idea. He is in the biochem field
I need to double up on the quinoa also and in general eat more
Also, the best explanation for all of this is most likely genetics and lack of creatine
To clarify, I used to do all cardio and be thin and lanky. I stepped up my game and did more calesthenics. Never really been a big gym guy. I go there once a week with a buddy. But I don't like the environment really there. And now I am toned. But the issue is that others put in much less effort and yeild much better results. I will start taking craetine as well. I am guessing that red meat provides creatine that simply can't be found in white meat and fish
Thanks for the help ya'll
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thelanzii

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19322916 - 12/24/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: So I have given it some thought. I have read all of your posts and its a pain to quote induviduals and type a long post out because I am super stoned and on my iphone rather than my comp
But so I understand it, I think i may need to try out fish and a little more eggs
and the post in regards to micro RNA, my uncle was explaining this to me as well. didnt understnad it fiully, but he gave me a basic rundown of the idea. He is in the biochem field
I need to double up on the quinoa also and in general eat more
Also, the best explanation for all of this is most likely genetics and lack of creatine
To clarify, I used to do all cardio and be thin and lanky. I stepped up my game and did more calesthenics. Never really been a big gym guy. I go there once a week with a buddy. But I don't like the environment really there. And now I am toned. But the issue is that others put in much less effort and yeild much better results. I will start taking craetine as well. I am guessing that red meat provides creatine that simply can't be found in white meat and fish
Thanks for the help ya'll
Healthy levels of creatine can still be easily maintained at a healthy level if one is consuming adequate calories from whole foods on a no meat diet
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pwnasaurus
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19322919 - 12/24/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What you need to do is lift heavy if you want to gain weight. Doing mostly cardio and a little bit of calisthenics if you are a hard-gainer is going to do very little for your size.
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koods
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Gorlax]
#19322955 - 12/24/13 07:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Gorlax said: I learned from a very intelligent professor something that makes a lot of sense but is hard to explain without the background knowledge of micro RNA's. It's thought that the more removed another species genetic code is from our own the less likely that mutations in there code can incorporate themselves into ours. This is why fish is considered one of the best/healthiest foods because they have ancient genetic codes that share no similar targets than ours. Compare this to cow meat that has similar codes. You really need a strong background in nucleic proteins to truly understand this concept...
but yes removing meats is good but you must supplement all the essentials you lose.
I think you have taken the phrase "you are what you eat" at little too seriously.
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KingKnowledge
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koods]
#19322966 - 12/24/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There are ways to get complete protein sources without meat. It just is harder :/
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19323026 - 12/24/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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A little google search i find that vegatarians are generally pretty low in creatine
And when I get my own place in about a year or two I will build my own home gym. I dont like the local gym once again
And i sure as hell am not expecting to get the same results as red meat eater. I am guessing anmimal protien is better for muscle building hands down (this is my inference. Not scientifcally backed up at all)
The impetus behind posting this thread was that i just got into a push fight and for the first time since my bro started eating heavy meats in the midwest and I started eating vegatarian, I actually beat him
I wrote a list of everything health choice that we made that I am aware of: bro: drinks 3 nights a week, drinks coffee heavily, eats meats in almost every meal, doesnt work out, occassionally meditates, smokes weed once a week maybe me: phenibut/etizolam .5-1 a week, green tea (no coffee), vape 2-6 times a week, 2-5 2gram kratom doses a week, meditate 1-2 20 min sessions a day, excercise (see first post for details), eat pretty damn healthy vegatarian
My bro doesnt rly pay attention to health. meditates for his stress
I pay close attention to my health. The furthest I go in a week is a couple small kratom doses a week, and vaping in varying amounts a week
The only thing that he does in that huge list I made that would help his muscle growth is eat meat. And only recently (when I expanded my horizons past running), I have been able to beat him
meditating, running, vegatarian, teetotaler vs fairly heavy meat eater, and drinker who never excercises?
The meat eater wins? Rly put into context the situation and all the vegatarians who say that vegatarian diet is the obvious choice curl up into fetal position. It really doesnt make sense to put veggie diet on a pedastal
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st1llnox
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19323031 - 12/24/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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5 year vegetarian, naturally just really muscular but I gain fat easily also. I'd still rather be you than your brother on this one though.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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topdog82
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: st1llnox]
#19323568 - 12/24/13 10:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
st1llnox said: 5 year vegetarian, naturally just really muscular but I gain fat easily also. I'd still rather be you than your brother on this one though.
Lol u kinda crapped all over my genetics indirectly in that post. But thats ok lol. Its prolly a conbo of genetics in addition to too much emphasis on cardio
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st1llnox
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19325049 - 12/25/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
st1llnox said: 5 year vegetarian, naturally just really muscular but I gain fat easily also. I'd still rather be you than your brother on this one though.
Lol u kinda crapped all over my genetics indirectly in that post. But thats ok lol. Its prolly a conbo of genetics in addition to too much emphasis on cardio
Lol you crapped on mine and my psychology, so we're good man I've actually always wanted to be like naturally skinny but mainly because getting fat(ter) terrifies me 
I'd say you're doing well with how things are going. Maybe he'll be able to beat you arm wrestling, but he'll never be able to outrun you Quit looking at what you're not suited as well for and look at what you are 
I commend your vegetarianism too!!!
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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nicechrisman
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19325051 - 12/25/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think eating moderate amounts of meat is probably more healthy than eating none at all. By a moderate amount, I mean WAY less than most Westerners eat.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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st1llnox
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I think a little could go a long way, a lot could really hold you back, but that none (especially if done right) can be ideal.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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ify24
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: st1llnox]
#19325149 - 12/25/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I have been a vegeterain for 11 months and started eating meat again few days ago 
Why ? Well we all have a right to think what we want, and our thoughts and opinions and points of view can change over some time, so did mine.
Well I cuted out every kind of meat and fish at the end of January, and started to eat meat few days ago, and I never got sick or raised temperature or any kind of unhealthy sings (well that is if we don't count pukeing from alcohol and greening out )
And I didn't eat a lot of veggie food, I mostly ate egs and diary products (chees and milk mostly), well I ate things like salad and some fruits and potato, mushrooms on pizza without meat (not the magic ones ) and well, I didn't eat foods I should have, but didn't get sick.
Thats all I have to say, I don't want to say why I stopped eating meat 11 months ago or why I started eating meat a few days ago, becouse it does not matter.
Enjoy your life, do what you think is right
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st1llnox
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: ify24]
#19325355 - 12/25/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've tried quitting vegetarianism and failed 
Always ended up getting veggie dishes while out and about and whatnot.
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
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Raklor
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: st1llnox]
#19325411 - 12/25/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just become a flexitarian. 80%-90% of your diet will be vegan, but you'll still be open to occasional meat here and there. It's not something I do at the moment but I've heard it's a pretty decent way to eat if you're going for improved health and I'd like to give it a chance some time.
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st1llnox
dx'd PTSD/ADHD--please don't ask



Registered: 11/27/12
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Loc: 913 KANSAS CITY 816
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Raklor]
#19325416 - 12/25/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Raklor said: Just become a flexitarian. 80%-90% of your diet will be vegan, but you'll still be open to occasional meat here and there. It's not something I do at the moment but I've heard it's a pretty decent way to eat if you're going for improved health and I'd like to give it a chance some time.
I've been thinking about going vegan and this sounds... swell!
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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ify24
Stranger

Registered: 11/24/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: st1llnox]
#19325426 - 12/25/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well yeah I took me 2 months to quit xD I got used to not eating meat, my brain didn't register meat as food, but as dead animal and like something that I should not eat.
And whenI thoght about quitting 2 months ago I couldn't really start to eat meat again right then, but only after 2 months 
Sry for my bad english
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Raklor]
#19325431 - 12/25/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Raklor said: Just become a flexitarian. 80%-90% of your diet will be vegan, but you'll still be open to occasional meat here and there. It's not something I do at the moment but I've heard it's a pretty decent way to eat if you're going for improved health and I'd like to give it a chance some time.
I was planning on sticking with my current diet which is vegatarian, and maybe 1-2 fish/chicken meals a week. at that GOOD quality fish and chicken. Once again, a little meat would probably go a long way
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Tycoda
Stranger
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19325688 - 12/25/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Eating meat is important for human beings. It provides essential protein, but also it counterbalances the cerebral impact of a fruits and veggies diet.
Whereas fruits and vegetables are packed with phytonutrients, which nourish the imagination and other similar cerebral functions, meat is packed with protein that provides a certain stability and surefootedness, which fruits and veggies do not provide on their own.
So while too many fruits and veggies leads to a consciousness that is seemingly detached and spacy, and too much meat leads to a consciousness that is sluggish and simple-minded, when the two food groups act in tandem with one another they produce a calm, poised mental state which is both imaginative and surefooted.
For this reason, in Chinese terminology, certain food groups are referred to as "yin" and "yang". Yin, which is negative, provides too little grounding in reality when it is present in excess, meanwhile yang, which is positive, provides too little imagination to give the cerebellum a chance to breathe and expand. The two must be balanced to make use of the brain's full capacity for unfolding its true potential.
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st1llnox
dx'd PTSD/ADHD--please don't ask



Registered: 11/27/12
Posts: 7,312
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19325697 - 12/25/13 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: Eating meat is important for human beings. It provides essential protein, but also it counterbalances the cerebral impact of a fruits and veggies diet.
Whereas fruits and vegetables are packed with phytonutrients, which nourish the imagination and other similar cerebral functions, meat is packed with protein that provides a certain stability and surefootedness, which fruits and veggies do not provide on their own.
So while too many fruits and veggies leads to a consciousness that is seemingly detached and spacy, and too much meat leads to a consciousness that is sluggish and simple-minded, when the two food groups act in tandem with one another they produce a calm, poised mental state which is both imaginative and surefooted.
For this reason, in Chinese terminology, certain food groups are referred to as "yin" and "yang". Yin, which is negative, provides too little grounding in reality when it is present in excess, meanwhile yang, which is positive, provides too little imagination to give the cerebellum a chance to breathe and expand. The two must be balanced to make use of the brain's full capacity for unfolding its true potential.
Only on a damned hallucinogen forum
-------------------- Back, bitches. st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet? st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here
  
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Tycoda
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19325700 - 12/25/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I do not understand what you are implying. Can you please clarify the meaning of your face-palm gesture?
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: st1llnox]
#19325705 - 12/25/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Eating meat is healthier for the ego and apathy.. I am currently not doing so, but plan on stopping... I would only eat an animal to devour it, to become it. Cut its throat and drink its blood. It is like a buzz, though you cannot really live of it.... you will not truly be living anymore..
Edited by Icyus (12/25/13 02:07 PM)
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Tycoda
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Icyus]
#19325731 - 12/25/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said: Eating meat is healthier for the ego and apathy..
Yes, meat does nourish the confidence and presence of the ego. This is helpful for a number of reasons, and even so for psychedelic users, since without a well-formed ego, the consciousness cannot properly utilize any of the knowledge or wisdom that it obtains.
However, naturally, a pure meat diet will do no good because it will give the ego more power than it deserves, to the exclusion of the external reality which keeps the ego in check.
To some extent, apathy can be beneficial if it is counterbalanced with empathy. Combined, they create dispassion, which is a very helpful state in the modern time, one which allows somebody to experience compassion without becoming saddened or burdened by it, as is often the case nowadays.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19325741 - 12/25/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hehe.. if you do decide to drop your ego, you will get a super ego..that you may accept or not.. never totally leaving though.. like coke without the dellusionality..
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Tycoda
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Icyus]
#19325744 - 12/25/13 02:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said: I would only eat an animal to devour it, to become it. Cut its throat and drink its blood. It is like a buzz, though you cannot really live of it.... you will not truly be living anymore..
Sadly, this is the current state of affairs that we are stuck in... the meat that we harvest is tainted by fear and negative emotions, which has a barbarianism-inducing effect on the psyche. As you described it, it is like a buzz.
But i do not know whether it is worse to suffer this psychic damage, or whether it is worse to abstain from meat entirely. I reckon that it is imperative to obtain a balance between the two, since eating leafy vegetables and fruits will offset barbarism, yet too much fruits and vegetables impart little self-esteem or fortitude.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda] 1
#19325762 - 12/25/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It must be done gradually. There will also be a burden to overcome, and one might argue which is the worse pick, but it renders peace and bliss, not just in pleasure. In the end you might chose to end you life and connection to these people, though I am awaiting such a fate for now.. helping a bit doesnt hurt..
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Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19325795 - 12/25/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1741-7015-11-63.pdf
Quote:
Abstract
Background: Recently, some US cohorts have shown a moderate association between red and processed meat consumption and mortality supporting the results of previous studies among vegetarians. The aim of this study was to examine the association of red meat, processed meat, and poultry consumption with the risk of early death in the European Prospective Investigation into Cancer and Nutrition (EPIC).
Methods: Included in the analysis were 448,568 men and women without prevalent cancer, stroke, or myocardial infarction, and with complete information on diet, smoking, physical activity and body mass index, who were between 35 and 69 years old at baseline. Cox proportional hazards regression was used to examine the association of meat consumption with all-cause and cause-specific mortality. Results: As of June 2009, 26,344 deaths were observed. After multivariate adjustment, a high consumption of red meat was related to higher all-cause mortality (hazard ratio (HR) = 1.14, 95% confidence interval (CI) 1.01 to 1.28, 160+ versus 10 to 19.9 g/day), and the association was stronger for processed meat (HR = 1.44, 95% CI 1.24 to 1.66, 160+ versus 10 to 19.9 g/day). After correction for measurement error, higher all-cause mortality remained significant only for processed meat (HR = 1.18, 95% CI 1.11 to 1.25, per 50 g/d). We estimated that 3.3% (95% CI 1.5% to 5.0%) of deaths could be prevented if all participants had a processed meat consumption of less than 20 g/day. Significant associations with processed meat intake were observed for cardiovascular diseases, cancer, and ‘ other causes of death ’ . The consumption of poultry was not related to all-cause mortality. ( Whats with the cause specific mortality? )
Conclusions: The results of our analysis support a moderate positive association between processed meat consumption and mortality, in particular due to cardiovascular diseases, but also to cancer. Keywords: diet, meat, mortality, cohort, Europe, cardiovascular, cancer
There are more studies out there. look for them, post them
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shpngld
veteran lurker


Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 88
Loc: London, UK
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Impulze]
#19326633 - 12/25/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with gorlax..
Tycoda's opinion resoante with me too...
As I whole, ithink, its about balance /once again/..
I do not support everyday meat /any/ consumption,but all in all it depends on your life style...I need meat cuz I am phisicaoly very active..ten hrs on foot at least...everyday... I do not eat pork,prefer lamb and beef, cooked by me......
I find fish as really valuable /imo/ as a food but the recent events as fukushima daiichi disaster makes me avid the ocean sea food.. All in all imo its too individual /beliefs and lifestyle/...
Just do not overindulge and exercise...
-------------------- As above, so below. As within, so without. As we think, so we are. As we are, so we see. Enjoy yourself, its later than you think.- chinese proverb ----------------- Shroomery is closest to my anahata chakra, than everything/anything/anyone else thedeadwalkk said: Shroomery, you're the best; If you had a dick, I would deepthroat that shit and finger your butthole at the same time.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: shpngld]
#19358877 - 01/02/14 02:38 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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So i have been gaining noticable muscle. I feel very strong yet supple. Prolly the yoga
Anyways, i have decided to go for meat in balance. Maybe 1-2 times a week and only unprovessed good quality meats. Which meats would be the healthiest? Pork and beef r kind of nasty (no offense to others). Im guessing red meats in general dont sit well with me. Even when i ate a lot of meat for about 3-4 years, pork and beef always made me feel unhealthy in large amounts.
Salmon, chicken, and turkey seem to be the way to go. If i cud afford it, i would do moose or venison. Any other siggestions. I also have doubled up on eggs and quinoa. A little meat here and there once again could go a long way
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Tycoda
Stranger
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19358903 - 01/02/14 02:42 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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careful about eating salmon because of mercury poisoning. Chicken and turkey are a good way to go, and so is eating liver if you can stomach it. i eat liver very often because it is cheap, healthy, and easy to prepare - and if i get it sliced thin then it is pretty tasty imo, too.
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ShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19358917 - 01/02/14 02:47 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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I need my red meat for my protien I need my strength man.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
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My best advice, for healths sake would be to eat what you kill.. go hunting, go fishing, and eat plants and mushrooms.. you will be healthy..
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eternalworm
Shroomer


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 36
Loc: Eugene, Oregon, USA
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Icyus]
#19358955 - 01/02/14 02:54 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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My advice... eat paleo. It's delicious, healthy and you can or don't have to eat meat.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: eternalworm]
#19358973 - 01/02/14 02:58 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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I dint get exactly wat paleo is? I thought i was just natural meats and veggies
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19359027 - 01/02/14 03:06 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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IMHO the best foods are vegetables, fruits and meats, and the best meats are bison, elk, venison, turkey and freshwater fish. If you do eat ocean fish make sure you eat atlantic not pacific because of fukushima radiation.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19359072 - 01/02/14 03:17 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Growing an extra pair of eyes never hurt anyone..
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theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
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Quote:
ShiVersblood said: I need my red meat for my protien I need my strength man.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19360985 - 01/02/14 10:03 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: IMHO the best foods are vegetables, fruits and meats, and the best meats are bison, elk, venison, turkey and freshwater fish. If you do eat ocean fish make sure you eat atlantic not pacific because of fukushima radiation.
Thank you! I will check all of em out. Lol i am assuming bison, elk, venison are all expensive
Fruits, veggies, chicken, freshwater fish, turkey, should be a fairly sustainable diet. I really wanna try venison. I have heard good things about em
The idea of killing an animal when I dont have to is a little disturbing, but its watever. I might as well kill the least conscious ones (tukeys, chickens, fish)
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Aedan



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19361394 - 01/02/14 11:48 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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I'm going to go with the less popular opinion and say you should stick with the vegetarian diet. Not eating meat is a lot healthier and easier than most people realize or are willing to admit. You may even live longer with a reduced risk of heart disease and cancer. While meat has the benefit of being nutrient dense and convenient most of the crap you will find at the super market is factory farmed and loaded with hormones, antibiotics and preservatives. Also nutritionally speaking there is nothing special you will find in meat. Everything you need can be sourced in abundance elsewhere.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Aedan]
#19361503 - 01/03/14 12:14 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Eating meat is ruining the planet. Eating meat is not necessary. For those interested here is a great place to start http://www.youtube.com/user/durianriders
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii] 1
#19361653 - 01/03/14 01:00 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said: Eating meat is ruining the planet.
What makes you think that agriculture is not destructive to the planet?
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lunarpiscean
princess



Registered: 11/12/12
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19361668 - 01/03/14 01:03 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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i think having an all meat diet puts your body into ketosis which burns a shit ton of calories
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deucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,594
Loc: UK
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Shroomism]
#19361689 - 01/03/14 01:10 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: I definitely hear you there and agree wholeheartedly.
http://vegetarianbodybuilder.com/115.html https://www.sunwarrior.com/news/build-muscles-as-a-vegan-or-vegetarian/
I believe the best results come from eating a healthy and DIVERSE diet - just like any diet , meat based or not.
Just heard on the radio of a couple, who are in there 60's, that have run 366 consecutive marathons on a raw vegan diet! link
The mind boggles.
-------------------- whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows... it's a bugger to cycle in. even though I'm feeling good Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19361712 - 01/03/14 01:20 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.
Edited by thelanzii (01/03/14 01:28 AM)
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Loc: outer space
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii] 1
#19361770 - 01/03/14 01:44 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said: The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.

Pesticides are not the only thing harmful to agriculture. Agriculture is also harmful because you constantly have to expand land, since you can only use the soil a number of times before it degrades to a certain point. You destroy the natural habitat of thousands of wild animals in the process of agriculture. Basically, unless you're using permaculture techniques, it is going to be harmful and unsustainable to the environment.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19361781 - 01/03/14 01:48 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.

Pesticides are not the only thing harmful to agriculture. Agriculture is also harmful because you constantly have to expand land, since you can only use the soil a number of times before it degrades to a certain point. You destroy the natural habitat of thousands of wild animals in the process of agriculture. Basically, unless you're using permaculture techniques, it is going to be harmful and unsustainable to the environment.
You failed to refute my main points...
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19361787 - 01/03/14 01:51 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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I wasn't refuting your points. I was adding to them.
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healing
Strangest



Registered: 02/22/11
Posts: 6,565
Loc: the universe, the milky w...
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19361947 - 01/03/14 02:54 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Humans evolved to be hunters and gatherers. Over the course of human history the ever increasing rate at which technology advances has made it possible for humans to have meat in quantities unavailable to our ancestors.
Our bodies have evolved to gorge on berries when we find them because they were not always easily available, so now that we have processed sugar we shove it down our fat, american faces all day long. Same thing.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: healing] 2
#19362372 - 01/03/14 08:05 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19362817 - 01/03/14 10:49 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
I know that wild game is most likely better for the environment. But it is only slightly more ethical IMO. Thats why I kind of began being vegatarian. We never really think about how the animal got killed
And wild game is a step up from factory farming. If I were to be eating meat, I would have to say that wild game is the better idea. But the mere idea of killing an animal for a meal when I don't have to is just unessacary
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 4 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19362847 - 01/03/14 10:58 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.

Pesticides are not the only thing harmful to agriculture. Agriculture is also harmful because you constantly have to expand land, since you can only use the soil a number of times before it degrades to a certain point. You destroy the natural habitat of thousands of wild animals in the process of agriculture. Basically, unless you're using permaculture techniques, it is going to be harmful and unsustainable to the environment.
You failed to refute my main points...
its only harmful cuz the way we do it
if you were to live on your own land, you would need meat to live.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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Moonshoe
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19362881 - 01/03/14 11:08 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
I know that wild game is most likely better for the environment. But it is only slightly more ethical IMO. Thats why I kind of began being vegatarian. We never really think about how the animal got killed
And wild game is a step up from factory farming. If I were to be eating meat, I would have to say that wild game is the better idea. But the mere idea of killing an animal for a meal when I don't have to is just unessacary
Animals that are factory farmed never experience natural lives. They live in torture conditions for their entire terrifying, agonizing existences. They are confined in tiny cages, crowded and abused, mutilated and fed unnatural foods. They often never see the sun or get to roam freely. Then they are brutally slaughtered.
Animals that are hunted live a completely wild, natural existence, in natural habits, under the sun, in the woods and fresh air, behaving naturally, mating and raising young, until the moment they are shot with a gun and bow and die.
To say that one is "only slightly more ethical" is absurd. Hunting is MUCH more ethical than factory farming, not only because of the quality of life a wild animal enjoys as opposed to a factory farmed animal, but also because hunting has a much lower environmental cost (hunting is eating local, no growth hormones, less greenhouse gas emissions etc)
In other words hunting is both much more humane and much more environmental.
However being vegetarian is a compassionate choice if done correctly. Some vegetarian foods are highly environmentally destructive. For example, many vegetarians replace meat with soy, but soy is often a genetically modified, pesiticide and fertilizer intensive monoculture that is grown on deforested rainforest land.
Eating soy is actually more environmentally destructive and results in the deaths of more animals than eating grass fed beef. This is because grass fed beef is raised in pasture, which can support many forms of life, while monocultures like soy allow only a single lifeform (soy) to exist, and chemical poisons are used to kill every single rodent and insect.
In otherwords, sometimes eating vegan or vegetarian kills more animals and destroys more wildlife than eating meat, but it takes some research to know.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19362938 - 01/03/14 11:22 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan by causing the human to deprive themselves of essential nutrient sources that are never as well-absorbed or in adequate quantities in the vegetarian / vegan alternatives...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19362946 - 01/03/14 11:24 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
I know that wild game is most likely better for the environment. But it is only slightly more ethical IMO. Thats why I kind of began being vegatarian. We never really think about how the animal got killed
And wild game is a step up from factory farming. If I were to be eating meat, I would have to say that wild game is the better idea. But the mere idea of killing an animal for a meal when I don't have to is just unessacary
Animals that are factory farmed never experience natural lives. They live in torture conditions for their entire terrifying, agonizing existences. They are confined in tiny cages, crowded and abused, mutilated and fed unnatural foods. They often never see the sun or get to roam freely. Then they are brutally slaughtered.
Animals that are hunted live a completely wild, natural existence, in natural habits, under the sun, in the woods and fresh air, behaving naturally, mating and raising young, until the moment they are shot with a gun and bow and die.
To say that one is "only slightly more ethical" is absurd. Hunting is MUCH more ethical than factory farming, not only because of the quality of life a wild animal enjoys as opposed to a factory farmed animal, but also because hunting has a much lower environmental cost (hunting is eating local, no growth hormones, less greenhouse gas emissions etc)
In other words hunting is both much more humane and much more environmental.
However being vegetarian is a compassionate choice if done correctly. Some vegetarian foods are highly environmentally destructive. For example, many vegetarians replace meat with soy, but soy is often a genetically modified, pesiticide and fertilizer intensive monoculture that is grown on deforested rainforest land.
Eating soy is actually more environmentally destructive and results in the deaths of more animals than eating grass fed beef. This is because grass fed beef is raised in pasture, which can support many forms of life, while monocultures like soy allow only a single lifeform (soy) to exist, and chemical poisons are used to kill every single rodent and insect.
In otherwords, sometimes eating vegan or vegetarian kills more animals and destroys more wildlife than eating meat, but it takes some research to know.
damn thats actually really true. If you actually compare the lives of elk or bison that are hunted they are not that bad. In that sense, wild game is much more ethical lol

Also, I read about that somewhere too. I kind of cut soy from my diet entirely too
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: k00laid]
#19362951 - 01/03/14 11:25 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
k00laid said:
Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.

Pesticides are not the only thing harmful to agriculture. Agriculture is also harmful because you constantly have to expand land, since you can only use the soil a number of times before it degrades to a certain point. You destroy the natural habitat of thousands of wild animals in the process of agriculture. Basically, unless you're using permaculture techniques, it is going to be harmful and unsustainable to the environment.
You failed to refute my main points...
its only harmful cuz the way we do it
if you were to live on your own land, you would need meat to live.
werd
If I were a native american I would be killing bison left and right
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topdog82
Death Spirit



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19362964 - 01/03/14 11:27 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
how would you say that lol?
why would being vegatarian have an unpleasant affect?
Look at moonshoe's description of how animals are raised in factory farms. its disgusting. Accumilating that much cruelty and suffering in an animal, then killing it and eating it...
Sounds like a bad idea to me
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Mescalean
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19362982 - 01/03/14 11:32 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Just tried ostrich the other day. Fucking delicious and lean
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19362993 - 01/03/14 11:35 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: I wasn't refuting your points. I was adding to them.
You were in fact missing his points entirely. Excessive consumption of meat is ruining the planet because it's an incredibly inefficient way of getting protein into your body. Meat production doesn't come in place of agriculture; it comes on top of it and only adds inefficiencies to the food production system.
In addition, consumption of meat isn't necessary, but eating a healthy truly vegan diet is really cumbersome and in fact a bit risky. It makes more sense to consume eggs and dairy, and then you might as well eat the leftover cows and steers and old-aged hens and roosters as well.
As to the issue laid out in the OP: OP, consider that you may actually be the normal one in terms of physical form, while your brother is probably just up there with the overweight and/or pumped up Americans that somehow make up the stereotype these days. It's perfectly healthy for an adult male to weight 150-160lbs.
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19363009 - 01/03/14 11:38 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
how would you say that lol?
why would being vegatarian have an unpleasant affect?
Look at moonshoe's description of how animals are raised in factory farms. its disgusting. Accumilating that much cruelty and suffering in an animal, then killing it and eating it...
Sounds like a bad idea to me
there is plenty of evidence to corroborate the claim that vegetarianism has many disastrous effects on the human body. your own research can confirm that.
although of course, eating meat that comes from an animal who lived in horrible living conditions is not ideal, either... but the way out of that mess is not to deprive ourselves, since the more that human beings deteriorate in their health, the less we are able to make any lasting change toward the better.
so it is a difficult ethical situation that requires some reason and forethought, rather than snap decisions based on gut feeling.
do you eat the meat that is available to us in order to make yourself healthy and then do something about the problem, or do you eat no meat so that your health deteriorates meanwhile the problem still exists?
evidently it is not a simple black and white issue.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363018 - 01/03/14 11:39 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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I have actually heard many sources claim that vegetarians suffer substantially lower rates of illness and disease, and have longer average lifespans.
However I know from personal experience when I do not eat meat I lose muscle mass and weight and feel perpetually hungry with meat cravings.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363024 - 01/03/14 11:41 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Tycoda said: there is plenty of evidence to corroborate the claim that vegetarianism has many disastrous effects on the human body. your own research can confirm that.
I'll gladly sit back eating tofu while you present us that evidence. Go ahead then. You're the ones making claims here.
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Mescalean
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19363029 - 01/03/14 11:42 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: I have actually heard many sources claim that vegetarians suffer substantially lower rates of illness and disease, and have longer average lifespans.
However I know from personal experience when I do not eat meat I lose muscle mass and weight and feel perpetually hungry with meat cravings.
Muscle mass is my reason for slamming down meat. That and its fucking tastey with all the seasonings you can add
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koraks]
#19363039 - 01/03/14 11:44 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
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Tycoda said: there is plenty of evidence to corroborate the claim that vegetarianism has many disastrous effects on the human body. your own research can confirm that.
I'll gladly sit back eating tofu while you present us that evidence. Go ahead then. You're the ones making claims here.
it makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not - in fact you should not simply take my word for it, anyway, since this is entirely useless to you. if somebody has a sincere desire to find out the truth of the matter, they will. and if they do not, then they will disregard the evidence even if i presented it to them.
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koraks
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Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda] 1
#19363054 - 01/03/14 11:47 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Man, honestly, you're so full of shit. Really. Go away.
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koraks]
#19363062 - 01/03/14 11:48 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
Edited by Tycoda (01/03/14 11:54 AM)
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Mescalean
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda] 1
#19363066 - 01/03/14 11:50 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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All I see is that vegetarian elitism start to flare.
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koraks
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda] 1
#19363070 - 01/03/14 11:51 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Why would it? The research suggesting that meat eaters would be more aggressive was shown to be bunk anyway.
And indeed, I'm very intolerant when it comes to unfounded bullshit spewed by silly young people who don't know the first thing about the stuff they talk about. Come back with some credible content or just shut up. Every single one of your posts in this thread is so ludicrous that I seriously think you're just another troll.
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topdog82
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363079 - 01/03/14 11:54 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Lol man i am kind of missing your point
I eat vegatarian for two years now and I am way healthier and happier than when I eat meat. I ate a lot of meat, white and red and pretty much only high quality. Not that trashy mcdonalds stuff haha
Your point is that not eating meat is bad for you?
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psi
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363103 - 01/03/14 12:03 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
It sounds like you're new to debating. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. If you're unwilling to back it up with anything, you're not likely to be taken seriously.
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pwnasaurus
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: psi]
#19363109 - 01/03/14 12:05 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
It sounds like you're new to debating. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. If you're unwilling to back it up with anything, you're not likely to be taken seriously.
I just left him a nice rating with the link to burden of proof on Wiki right before you posted this .
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19363123 - 01/03/14 12:07 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: Lol man i am kind of missing your point
I eat vegatarian for two years now and I am way healthier and happier than when I eat meat. I ate a lot of meat, white and red and pretty much only high quality. Not that trashy mcdonalds stuff haha
Your point is that not eating meat is bad for you?
yup, that is the point i intended to communicate. i mean to insult no one, or to insult their way of life because i seriously respect their desire to act in a more ethical way. but simply to answer the question that you posed with the knowledge that i possess about the matter, there are a lot of factors for why vegans and vegetarians feel much better at first, but then at some point in the future their health takes a steep dive.
based on my knowledge, vegetarians will feel much better initially because the vegetables do have somewhat of a cleansing effect on the body, particularly if that person has eaten a lot of junk food. but eventually, the body is deprived of essential fats, proteins, and nutrients that just do not become utilized by the body in the same way when they come from beans, soy, etc.. this is not such a strange concept even, since it is fairly common knowledge that not all forms of the same nutrient are absorbed in the exact same manner by the body. why else do some supplements work meanwhile others do not?
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19363136 - 01/03/14 12:11 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
It sounds like you're new to debating. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. If you're unwilling to back it up with anything, you're not likely to be taken seriously.
I just left him a nice rating with the link to burden of proof on Wiki right before you posted this .
that's okay, because topdog is the one who possesses a genuine desire to know about the truth. i do not ask anybody to believe me, or agree with me, or debate with me, since all of that is utterly useless. if what i say spurs somebody to wonder about the validity of what i claim, and they discover that it is true, then they will be benefited by it. if they discover that parts of it are inaccurate since i am not a perfect human being, then they will disregard those parts that should rightfully be disregarded. then, if they are vengeful, they will take action against me - or they will be understanding, and realize that i am just a human being like them who is trying to help.
if you take action or change your lifestyle drastically based on what one person says on an internet forum, then you do not have enough of a free will or self-esteem.
this is not a court of law, and there is no gravel to be pounded once a victor is decided.
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topdog82
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363147 - 01/03/14 12:14 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said:
Quote:
topdog82 said: Lol man i am kind of missing your point
I eat vegatarian for two years now and I am way healthier and happier than when I eat meat. I ate a lot of meat, white and red and pretty much only high quality. Not that trashy mcdonalds stuff haha
Your point is that not eating meat is bad for you?
yup, that is the point i intended to communicate. i mean to insult no one, or to insult their way of life because i seriously respect their desire to act in a more ethical way. but simply to answer the question that you posed with the knowledge that i possess about the matter, there are a lot of factors for why vegans and vegetarians feel much better at first, but then at some point in the future their health takes a steep dive.
based on my knowledge, vegetarians will feel much better initially because the vegetables do have somewhat of a cleansing effect on the body, particularly if that person has eaten a lot of junk food. but eventually, the body is deprived of essential fats, proteins, and nutrients that just do not become utilized by the body in the same way when they come from beans, soy, etc.. this is not such a strange concept even, since it is fairly common knowledge that not all forms of the same nutrient are absorbed in the exact same manner by the body. why else do some supplements work meanwhile others do not?
But the science says otherwise?
And yeah I do recognize that there are some essential parts of meat that you miss in a vegatarian diet
Hence why I have been supplementing with qinoa, and going for a couple super healthy meat meals every once in a while since I posted this thread. Ie fish and white meat twice a week
And I am not saying I am a living testament to vegatarian diet being the superior way of eating. It annoys me when people act that way. If I wanted to get super serious about building muscle I would kind of have to eat meats. Red meats at that. I am definately lacking the natural sources of creatine so body building on a veggie diet is a radical idea. But people do it I guess
But I feel that the somewhat toned and supple body and great posture that I am maintaining is great and I could do this forever imo
Also, factory farming kind of scares me. The videos that people have showed me are really disturbing. I dont really want to cause that kind of harm to other animals. When will this cleansing effect backfire on me?
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363151 - 01/03/14 12:15 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
 Like the others said, you're new to the whole make-a-claim-and-present-evidence thing. Moreover, you seem to just fail at logic. You cannot prove if a certain diet is healthy, you can only try to prove it is unhealthy and if you can't find ways in which it is, you can chose to accept the view that the diet is healthy (in science mumbojumbo: you accept the null hypothesis). So far, no research has been able to show any way in which a vegetarian diet is unhealthy per se - unless you leave out essential elements. But that leaving out of essential elements is just as likely or possible in a vegetarian diet as it is in an omnivorous one.
I'm very open to any evidence that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy per se. I know it isn't there, but I encourage you to look for it. Not to satisfy my own curiosity (I'm on top of that myself, thankyouverymuch), but in the (probably vain) hope that you'll actually learn something yourself and maybe, one day, we can actually have an intelligent conversation about this.
Quote:
Tycoda said: based on my knowledge, vegetarians will feel much better initially because the vegetables do have somewhat of a cleansing effect on the body, particularly if that person has eaten a lot of junk food.
Which only shows (yet again) how incomplete your knowledge is. I don't feel attacked for any diet or belief you may think I adhere to - that's not where my acrid responses come from. They come from the sort of idiotic, pseudo-scientific and mock-spiritual claims you keep making based on a really dim understanding (or rather, lack thereof) of the matter you're talking about and you show no sign whatsoever of you acknowledging that you know fuck all about this. Which really is the case. Face it already.
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19363179 - 01/03/14 12:22 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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you have a point, koraks. i did not focus on the actual topic question, but took the fearful route instead... i did not see it at the time, but you have shown it to me. for that i apologize, for i meant no harm to anybody.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363199 - 01/03/14 12:27 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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topdog82 said: And yeah I do recognize that there are some essential parts of meat that you miss in a vegatarian diet
Such as? Let's hear it? Mind you, we're talking vegetarian here, not vegan, right?
Quote:
Also, factory farming kind of scares me.
Quite right, too. Apart from the ethical aspects, there are several reasons to do away with that. In the long run, factory farming constitutes a major health threat to humanity as a whole. That's reason enough to reduce the density and the use of antibiotics.
Quote:
Tycoda said: you have a point, koraks. i did not focus on the actual topic question, but took the fearful route instead... i did not see it at the time, but you have shown it to me. for that i apologize, for i meant no harm to anybody.
Well, I appreciate your response, regardless if it was genuine or not, but I'd rather that you just stood up for your beliefs and researched them and came back to us with what you had found out. Go ahead and make your claims, but be specific and if possible, present some evidence or sources that underlie your theories. In case you hadn't noticed: in matters like these, I don't really care about the people involved in the debate - I care about the content. So very nice of you to apologize, but there's no need. Feed us information instead.
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koraks]
#19363305 - 01/03/14 12:57 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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i will endeavour to do that, out of respect to you guys. it happened simultaneously in another thread about global warming, but it suddenly came to my attention that i am sitting here in my living room, just a simple guy of 23, campaigning about two issues that are bigger than my consciousness like i am joan of arc, lol... and in retrospect, i don't want to be a crusader. the hours suck, and i don't have the training for it. so i will endeavour not to make that mistake again, and i ask you to please forgive me for my error.
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Tycoda
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363352 - 01/03/14 01:08 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Articles to corroborate the potential dangers of vegetarainism and veganism:
http://www.humantruth.info/vegetarianism.html
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/vegpage.html
Here, i did manage to pull up some apparently trustworthy sources about the risks of these diets. obviously this is not an easy task on the internet, but i avoided any article that seemed like it was biased one way or the other from the get-go.
it also seems that there may be ways to offset the danger, or mitigate it somewhat at least, so imo that is good news. so perhaps the bottom line is do not throw yourself into vegetarianism or veganism as it exists as a fad, and do not discredit the importance of meat altogether. nature selected our diets for us, so imo we tinker with nature's design at our own risk. but obviously everybody has to take that risk based on their own decision.
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lighthouse09
Stranger thats mr. stranger



Registered: 03/16/13
Posts: 699
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363368 - 01/03/14 01:11 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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i was a healthy vegetarian for 5 years and was incredibly healthy i still eat alot of veggie stuff but i gave up because i was starving (homeless kindof) and only had meat in the food that day so i could not eat or eat meat?. now i eat to much meat again but in the same i would kill an animal and eat it and have. That is survival however we have no need for that anymore because we are to good at growing good food and the places the animals are raised are disgusting for most meat natural cows do exist my cousin gets a half a cow to split a couple times a year rom a farmer anyone could do this just talk to some farmers nearbye or learn to hunt we have way to many deer already and they are pretty healthy.
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<--This fuckin guy
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Tycoda
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/13
Posts: 108
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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that would be an amazing life to me, being able to hunt and only kill what i required to live. but i also look forward to the day when we can grow meat in a lab... hell i don't even care if it tastes kind of crappy so long as it does the job that meat is supposed to do.
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plektheplek



Registered: 06/18/11
Posts: 3,287
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363776 - 01/03/14 02:58 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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I was a vegetarian for 2 years give or take and I got TERRIBLY sick for a huge portion of that time because I was stubborn and wouldn't eat some meat
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: plektheplek]
#19363823 - 01/03/14 03:09 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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More likely is because you weren't getting all your required nutrients. Meat is not the only way to get them.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363832 - 01/03/14 03:12 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan by causing the human to deprive themselves of essential nutrient sources that are never as well-absorbed or in adequate quantities in the vegetarian / vegan alternatives...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
Not true Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan by causing the human to deprive themselves of essential nutrient sources that are never as well-absorbed or in adequate quantities in the vegetarian / vegan alternatives...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
Not true at all about nutrient deprivation. Fruits and vegetables all ya need. So all these supplements stores must only be selling to vegans right?? I can post a guy that has his blood checked for last the 12 years posts them online and is in the best shape of his life.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363917 - 01/03/14 03:28 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: Articles to corroborate the potential dangers of vegetarainism and veganism:
http://www.humantruth.info/vegetarianism.html
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/vegpage.html
Here, i did manage to pull up some apparently trustworthy sources about the risks of these diets. obviously this is not an easy task on the internet, but i avoided any article that seemed like it was biased one way or the other from the get-go.
it also seems that there may be ways to offset the danger, or mitigate it somewhat at least, so imo that is good news. so perhaps the bottom line is do not throw yourself into vegetarianism or veganism as it exists as a fad, and do not discredit the importance of meat altogether. nature selected our diets for us, so imo we tinker with nature's design at our own risk. but obviously everybody has to take that risk based on their own decision.
Take a look at our teeth.  We were ment to consume fruits and vegetables. There is a reason eskimos only live to thirty
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: plektheplek]
#19364693 - 01/03/14 05:46 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: Articles to corroborate the potential dangers of vegetarainism and veganism:
http://www.humantruth.info/vegetarianism.html
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/vegpage.html
Here, i did manage to pull up some apparently trustworthy sources about the risks of these diets. obviously this is not an easy task on the internet, but i avoided any article that seemed like it was biased one way or the other from the get-go.
it also seems that there may be ways to offset the danger, or mitigate it somewhat at least, so imo that is good news. so perhaps the bottom line is do not throw yourself into vegetarianism or veganism as it exists as a fad, and do not discredit the importance of meat altogether. nature selected our diets for us, so imo we tinker with nature's design at our own risk. but obviously everybody has to take that risk based on their own decision.
Take a look at our teeth.  We were ment to consume fruits and vegetables. There is a reason eskimos only live to thirty
Could you please send me the link for that picture?
also, Quote:
plektheplek said: I was a vegetarian for 2 years give or take and I got TERRIBLY sick for a huge portion of that time because I was stubborn and wouldn't eat some meat
so about 1-13 years old I was vegatarian. Grew up with vegatarian parents. But they didnt mind if I ate meat. Its a personal choice. About 13-17.5 I ate meats heavily. And 17.5-19 years I have been vegatarian
These are all approx numbers. But the healthiest I have felt was recently. abbout 13-17.5 years of age I was fairly out of shape even though I worked out. I definately felt less healthy and energetic. However I felt more energetic than 1-13 years of age. 1-13 years old was probably the most unhealthy period in my life. And that was because I wasn't doing vegatarian right
You have to supply your body with real food. It sounds like an obvious idea. But at the time this was a radical concept for me lol. If you are a vegatarian and eating processed veggie food that is honestly worse than eating meats that are processed
So in my experience (which is fairly limited), vegatarian, when done right, is better than a meat heavy diet. But the reason for posting this thread is that I feel like pescatarian diet would b best. Freshwater fish here and there would be a great addition
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lighthouse09
Stranger thats mr. stranger



Registered: 03/16/13
Posts: 699
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19365952 - 01/03/14 09:39 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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I actually never got sick once being a vegetarian for five years i did get sick when i started meat again i mostly ate chicken until st patty's day i tried some corned beef and everyone else was fine but i had the worst sickness and constant vomit for like 14 hours after. OP. Vegetarian is a much healthier diet as long as you eat the right foods which isn't hard, I was also small even after i ate meat it took me till my metabolism slowed down like 6 years later to finally gain weight and mass .
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<--This fuckin guy
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 4 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19366178 - 01/03/14 10:37 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: Could you please send me the link for that picture?
i didnt read this thread really at all.
but dude.
the source is in the bottom right of the pic.
come on now.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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Dr.Tooty
Eye see you.


Registered: 06/03/11
Posts: 2,003
Loc: Nowhere in particular.
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: k00laid]
#19366265 - 01/03/14 11:03 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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There's a lot in this thread i didn't read but my 2cents
I never got sick from a vegetarian diet. If I'm transitioning and have been eating a lot of meat i find that i get super gassy for a few days- but that's from the heavy increase of dietary fiber and dissipates within a few days.
I eat mainly fruits and veggies now, and with protein shakes am able to keep my weight up around 190lbs. If I don't take those shakes i miss out on a lot of energy which equates to work out time and my weight drops to about 170lbs.
-------------------- "I get up, I get down." Insect Forum
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Dr.Tooty]
#19369297 - 01/04/14 05:12 PM (10 years, 26 days ago) |
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Vegans should supplement b vitamins, iron , protein and creatine .
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Everything I post is fiction.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19369345 - 01/04/14 05:23 PM (10 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Vegans should supplement b vitamins, iron , protein and creatine .
As long as one is eating adequate calories from whole foods it is not necessary. B12 is the crucial one in my experience because it is filtered out of the water. Meat eaters should supplement b12 as well.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19380010 - 01/06/14 10:55 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Vegans should supplement b vitamins, iron , protein and creatine .
As long as one is eating adequate calories from whole foods it is not necessary. B12 is the crucial one in my experience because it is filtered out of the water. Meat eaters should supplement b12 as well.
But isnt supplementing kind of missing the point here? Supplements arent nearly as good as the original source? Ie eating fish is better than supplementing with omega 3's. Please correct me if i am wrong. This is what my physio tescher told me
Anyways, I have been staying home all break with the family. Meditating, doing lots of kratom and weed. In that time we have been eating out a lot, and I have got the chance to try duck. I ate chicken, turkey. I had grass fed beef. Pork. some fancy fish, and I tried venison last night at a buddies house Seems silly to mention i ate chicken and turkey but i havent had any meats in years now Anyways, duck is awesome. So is fish. Duck is like an upgraded better tasting chicken But at this point i have decided to be pescatarian. If i am going to kill animals it might as well be the healthiest meats and the stupidest animals (fish i would say are a lower level of conciousness than chickens) Quinoa i realized supplements protien and tyrosine and 5htp. Good stuff really I also thought i would update that i played footba with my brother and i was much more agile and physically capable. Obviously he could tackle me, but that didnt matter since i was more agile. In addition, heavy quinoa, eggs, veggies, fruits, and tryin some meats here and there have left me with even more muscle. My chest is something ladies could die for. Id post pics but i like the anonymity when posting on the shroomery. At this point i would say that i could definately overpower physically a lot of my non-vegatarian friends So here are my inquiries: 1) If anyone has any info on how to be pescatarian more sustainable please lemme kno. As moonshoe said, soy is not environmentally friendly. This is something people would know without some research. Are freshwater fish more environmentally friendly? Could i buy fish that lived full wild lives and not unethically slaughtered? And are there any tips tp avoid mercury? Any tips and knowledge is welcome 2) And what about eggs? Are eggs environmentally friendly? 3) would you people agree that killing a fish is less ethically questionable than land animals? EDIT: fuck i have been getting really big. I am tempted to post a pic. I think i have reached my peak. At this point i would have to take creatine and eat red meats and lift weights to get bigger. Truly amazing how much i can grow just with gym twice a week, tons of body weight excercises and intense yoga. Anyone out these who is tryna get super in shape, you can do it!
Edited by topdog82 (01/06/14 10:59 PM)
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19380221 - 01/06/14 11:49 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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you did not read my post. People who eat meat should supplement b12 as well as people who do not.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19380252 - 01/06/14 11:57 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said: you did not read my post. People who eat meat should supplement b12 as well as people who do not.
I did read your post. I already take a multivitamin which contains b12 every morning
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 6 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19380350 - 01/07/14 12:30 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said: you did not read my post. People who eat meat should supplement b12 as well as people who do not.
Why is that? There's plenty of B12 in meat sources. It's highest in oysters, clams, and other shellfish. B12 on the other hand, does not exist at all in plant sources.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19380357 - 01/07/14 12:33 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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I got some meat y'all can munch on.
*NSFW*
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theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: theRAPeutic]
#19380372 - 01/07/14 12:38 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Oh yeah, you wanna put it in your mouth? Let the juices flow over your tongue??
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19380614 - 01/07/14 01:46 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: you did not read my post. People who eat meat should supplement b12 as well as people who do not.
Why is that? There's plenty of B12 in meat sources. It's highest in oysters, clams, and other shellfish. B12 on the other hand, does not exist at all in plant sources.
highly deficient in the us
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19380713 - 01/07/14 02:31 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: Articles to corroborate the potential dangers of vegetarainism and veganism:
http://www.humantruth.info/vegetarianism.html
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/vegpage.html
Thanks for posting the articles, of which only one appears to be a peer-reviewed study. The other two are monographs which the authors did admittedly put some effort into, but they did not stand the test of peer review. More importantly, though, the risks with 'vegetarianism' pointed out in the articles only apply to a vegan diet (interestingly, only the peer-reviewed article is explicitly clear on this!) I asked you before to come up with support for your claim that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy, but it seems that you simply disregard the difference between both. In addition, even in a vegan diet, it's perfectly doable to supplement the deficient nutrients.
Now that you've actually done a teensy-weensy bit of research, are you starting to see how nonsensical your previous claim was that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy?
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koraks]
#19380718 - 01/07/14 02:34 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Regardless, vegetarians are weeping pussies who miss out on one of the greatest epicurean indulgences possible in life.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Vegetarians tend to have better health, less illness, and a most positive mental and emotional state, with a more spiritual mindset and mental clarity.
However, they also tend to be skinny, less muscular, less strong, not as good in a fight, and smaller.
I know because I have been both.
When I was vegetarian I felt more spiritual, like a Hindu or Buddhist.
However, I am a martial artist and a body builder, and for that I need meat and lots of it.
or
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Everything I post is fiction.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19382116 - 01/07/14 12:04 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Vegetarians tend to have better health, less illness, and a most positive mental and emotional state, with a more spiritual mindset and mental clarity.
However, they also tend to be skinny, less muscular, less strong, not as good in a fight, and smaller.
I know because I have been both.
When I was vegetarian I felt more spiritual, like a Hindu or Buddhist.
However, I am a martial artist and a body builder, and for that I need meat and lots of it.
or 
Broad generalization relying totally on an individuals dedication to training and type of training
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19382289 - 01/07/14 12:46 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Vegetarians tend to have better health, less illness, and a most positive mental and emotional state, with a more spiritual mindset and mental clarity.
However, they also tend to be skinny, less muscular, less strong, not as good in a fight, and smaller.
I know because I have been both.
When I was vegetarian I felt more spiritual, like a Hindu or Buddhist.
However, I am a martial artist and a body builder, and for that I need meat and lots of it.
or 
Broad generalization relying totally on an individuals dedication to training and type of training
Yes, but generally speaking vegetarianism and veganism goes along with a health conscious and ethical mindset, a compassion for other living things and perhaps a spiritual sentiment,
while eating meat provides lots of protein and creatine and iron and b vitamins and calories and fat that make it easier for the body to grow large and strong.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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