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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda] 1
#19363066 - 01/03/14 11:50 AM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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All I see is that vegetarian elitism start to flare.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda] 1
#19363070 - 01/03/14 11:51 AM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Why would it? The research suggesting that meat eaters would be more aggressive was shown to be bunk anyway.
And indeed, I'm very intolerant when it comes to unfounded bullshit spewed by silly young people who don't know the first thing about the stuff they talk about. Come back with some credible content or just shut up. Every single one of your posts in this thread is so ludicrous that I seriously think you're just another troll.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363079 - 01/03/14 11:54 AM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Lol man i am kind of missing your point
I eat vegatarian for two years now and I am way healthier and happier than when I eat meat. I ate a lot of meat, white and red and pretty much only high quality. Not that trashy mcdonalds stuff haha
Your point is that not eating meat is bad for you?
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363103 - 01/03/14 12:03 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
It sounds like you're new to debating. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. If you're unwilling to back it up with anything, you're not likely to be taken seriously.
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: psi]
#19363109 - 01/03/14 12:05 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
It sounds like you're new to debating. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. If you're unwilling to back it up with anything, you're not likely to be taken seriously.
I just left him a nice rating with the link to burden of proof on Wiki right before you posted this .
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Tycoda
Stranger

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19363123 - 01/03/14 12:07 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: Lol man i am kind of missing your point
I eat vegatarian for two years now and I am way healthier and happier than when I eat meat. I ate a lot of meat, white and red and pretty much only high quality. Not that trashy mcdonalds stuff haha
Your point is that not eating meat is bad for you?
yup, that is the point i intended to communicate. i mean to insult no one, or to insult their way of life because i seriously respect their desire to act in a more ethical way. but simply to answer the question that you posed with the knowledge that i possess about the matter, there are a lot of factors for why vegans and vegetarians feel much better at first, but then at some point in the future their health takes a steep dive.
based on my knowledge, vegetarians will feel much better initially because the vegetables do have somewhat of a cleansing effect on the body, particularly if that person has eaten a lot of junk food. but eventually, the body is deprived of essential fats, proteins, and nutrients that just do not become utilized by the body in the same way when they come from beans, soy, etc.. this is not such a strange concept even, since it is fairly common knowledge that not all forms of the same nutrient are absorbed in the exact same manner by the body. why else do some supplements work meanwhile others do not?
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Tycoda
Stranger

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: pwnasaurus]
#19363136 - 01/03/14 12:11 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
pwnasaurus said:
Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
It sounds like you're new to debating. If you make a claim, the burden of proof is on you. If you're unwilling to back it up with anything, you're not likely to be taken seriously.
I just left him a nice rating with the link to burden of proof on Wiki right before you posted this .
that's okay, because topdog is the one who possesses a genuine desire to know about the truth. i do not ask anybody to believe me, or agree with me, or debate with me, since all of that is utterly useless. if what i say spurs somebody to wonder about the validity of what i claim, and they discover that it is true, then they will be benefited by it. if they discover that parts of it are inaccurate since i am not a perfect human being, then they will disregard those parts that should rightfully be disregarded. then, if they are vengeful, they will take action against me - or they will be understanding, and realize that i am just a human being like them who is trying to help.
if you take action or change your lifestyle drastically based on what one person says on an internet forum, then you do not have enough of a free will or self-esteem.
this is not a court of law, and there is no gravel to be pounded once a victor is decided.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363147 - 01/03/14 12:14 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said:
Quote:
topdog82 said: Lol man i am kind of missing your point
I eat vegatarian for two years now and I am way healthier and happier than when I eat meat. I ate a lot of meat, white and red and pretty much only high quality. Not that trashy mcdonalds stuff haha
Your point is that not eating meat is bad for you?
yup, that is the point i intended to communicate. i mean to insult no one, or to insult their way of life because i seriously respect their desire to act in a more ethical way. but simply to answer the question that you posed with the knowledge that i possess about the matter, there are a lot of factors for why vegans and vegetarians feel much better at first, but then at some point in the future their health takes a steep dive.
based on my knowledge, vegetarians will feel much better initially because the vegetables do have somewhat of a cleansing effect on the body, particularly if that person has eaten a lot of junk food. but eventually, the body is deprived of essential fats, proteins, and nutrients that just do not become utilized by the body in the same way when they come from beans, soy, etc.. this is not such a strange concept even, since it is fairly common knowledge that not all forms of the same nutrient are absorbed in the exact same manner by the body. why else do some supplements work meanwhile others do not?
But the science says otherwise?
And yeah I do recognize that there are some essential parts of meat that you miss in a vegatarian diet
Hence why I have been supplementing with qinoa, and going for a couple super healthy meat meals every once in a while since I posted this thread. Ie fish and white meat twice a week
And I am not saying I am a living testament to vegatarian diet being the superior way of eating. It annoys me when people act that way. If I wanted to get super serious about building muscle I would kind of have to eat meats. Red meats at that. I am definately lacking the natural sources of creatine so body building on a veggie diet is a radical idea. But people do it I guess
But I feel that the somewhat toned and supple body and great posture that I am maintaining is great and I could do this forever imo
Also, factory farming kind of scares me. The videos that people have showed me are really disturbing. I dont really want to cause that kind of harm to other animals. When will this cleansing effect backfire on me?
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363151 - 01/03/14 12:15 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
 Like the others said, you're new to the whole make-a-claim-and-present-evidence thing. Moreover, you seem to just fail at logic. You cannot prove if a certain diet is healthy, you can only try to prove it is unhealthy and if you can't find ways in which it is, you can chose to accept the view that the diet is healthy (in science mumbojumbo: you accept the null hypothesis). So far, no research has been able to show any way in which a vegetarian diet is unhealthy per se - unless you leave out essential elements. But that leaving out of essential elements is just as likely or possible in a vegetarian diet as it is in an omnivorous one.
I'm very open to any evidence that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy per se. I know it isn't there, but I encourage you to look for it. Not to satisfy my own curiosity (I'm on top of that myself, thankyouverymuch), but in the (probably vain) hope that you'll actually learn something yourself and maybe, one day, we can actually have an intelligent conversation about this.
Quote:
Tycoda said: based on my knowledge, vegetarians will feel much better initially because the vegetables do have somewhat of a cleansing effect on the body, particularly if that person has eaten a lot of junk food.
Which only shows (yet again) how incomplete your knowledge is. I don't feel attacked for any diet or belief you may think I adhere to - that's not where my acrid responses come from. They come from the sort of idiotic, pseudo-scientific and mock-spiritual claims you keep making based on a really dim understanding (or rather, lack thereof) of the matter you're talking about and you show no sign whatsoever of you acknowledging that you know fuck all about this. Which really is the case. Face it already.
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Tycoda
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19363179 - 01/03/14 12:22 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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you have a point, koraks. i did not focus on the actual topic question, but took the fearful route instead... i did not see it at the time, but you have shown it to me. for that i apologize, for i meant no harm to anybody.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363199 - 01/03/14 12:27 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said: And yeah I do recognize that there are some essential parts of meat that you miss in a vegatarian diet
Such as? Let's hear it? Mind you, we're talking vegetarian here, not vegan, right?
Quote:
Also, factory farming kind of scares me.
Quite right, too. Apart from the ethical aspects, there are several reasons to do away with that. In the long run, factory farming constitutes a major health threat to humanity as a whole. That's reason enough to reduce the density and the use of antibiotics.
Quote:
Tycoda said: you have a point, koraks. i did not focus on the actual topic question, but took the fearful route instead... i did not see it at the time, but you have shown it to me. for that i apologize, for i meant no harm to anybody.
Well, I appreciate your response, regardless if it was genuine or not, but I'd rather that you just stood up for your beliefs and researched them and came back to us with what you had found out. Go ahead and make your claims, but be specific and if possible, present some evidence or sources that underlie your theories. In case you hadn't noticed: in matters like these, I don't really care about the people involved in the debate - I care about the content. So very nice of you to apologize, but there's no need. Feed us information instead.
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Tycoda
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koraks]
#19363305 - 01/03/14 12:57 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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i will endeavour to do that, out of respect to you guys. it happened simultaneously in another thread about global warming, but it suddenly came to my attention that i am sitting here in my living room, just a simple guy of 23, campaigning about two issues that are bigger than my consciousness like i am joan of arc, lol... and in retrospect, i don't want to be a crusader. the hours suck, and i don't have the training for it. so i will endeavour not to make that mistake again, and i ask you to please forgive me for my error.
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Tycoda
Stranger

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Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363352 - 01/03/14 01:08 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Articles to corroborate the potential dangers of vegetarainism and veganism:
http://www.humantruth.info/vegetarianism.html
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/vegpage.html
Here, i did manage to pull up some apparently trustworthy sources about the risks of these diets. obviously this is not an easy task on the internet, but i avoided any article that seemed like it was biased one way or the other from the get-go.
it also seems that there may be ways to offset the danger, or mitigate it somewhat at least, so imo that is good news. so perhaps the bottom line is do not throw yourself into vegetarianism or veganism as it exists as a fad, and do not discredit the importance of meat altogether. nature selected our diets for us, so imo we tinker with nature's design at our own risk. but obviously everybody has to take that risk based on their own decision.
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lighthouse09
Stranger thats mr. stranger



Registered: 03/16/13
Posts: 699
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363368 - 01/03/14 01:11 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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i was a healthy vegetarian for 5 years and was incredibly healthy i still eat alot of veggie stuff but i gave up because i was starving (homeless kindof) and only had meat in the food that day so i could not eat or eat meat?. now i eat to much meat again but in the same i would kill an animal and eat it and have. That is survival however we have no need for that anymore because we are to good at growing good food and the places the animals are raised are disgusting for most meat natural cows do exist my cousin gets a half a cow to split a couple times a year rom a farmer anyone could do this just talk to some farmers nearbye or learn to hunt we have way to many deer already and they are pretty healthy.
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<--This fuckin guy
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Tycoda
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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that would be an amazing life to me, being able to hunt and only kill what i required to live. but i also look forward to the day when we can grow meat in a lab... hell i don't even care if it tastes kind of crappy so long as it does the job that meat is supposed to do.
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plektheplek



Registered: 06/18/11
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363776 - 01/03/14 02:58 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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I was a vegetarian for 2 years give or take and I got TERRIBLY sick for a huge portion of that time because I was stubborn and wouldn't eat some meat
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pwnasaurus
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/08
Posts: 12,317
Loc: Canada
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: plektheplek]
#19363823 - 01/03/14 03:09 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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More likely is because you weren't getting all your required nutrients. Meat is not the only way to get them.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363832 - 01/03/14 03:12 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan by causing the human to deprive themselves of essential nutrient sources that are never as well-absorbed or in adequate quantities in the vegetarian / vegan alternatives...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
Not true Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan by causing the human to deprive themselves of essential nutrient sources that are never as well-absorbed or in adequate quantities in the vegetarian / vegan alternatives...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
Not true at all about nutrient deprivation. Fruits and vegetables all ya need. So all these supplements stores must only be selling to vegans right?? I can post a guy that has his blood checked for last the 12 years posts them online and is in the best shape of his life.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363917 - 01/03/14 03:28 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: Articles to corroborate the potential dangers of vegetarainism and veganism:
http://www.humantruth.info/vegetarianism.html
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/vegpage.html
Here, i did manage to pull up some apparently trustworthy sources about the risks of these diets. obviously this is not an easy task on the internet, but i avoided any article that seemed like it was biased one way or the other from the get-go.
it also seems that there may be ways to offset the danger, or mitigate it somewhat at least, so imo that is good news. so perhaps the bottom line is do not throw yourself into vegetarianism or veganism as it exists as a fad, and do not discredit the importance of meat altogether. nature selected our diets for us, so imo we tinker with nature's design at our own risk. but obviously everybody has to take that risk based on their own decision.
Take a look at our teeth.  We were ment to consume fruits and vegetables. There is a reason eskimos only live to thirty
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: plektheplek]
#19364693 - 01/03/14 05:46 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: Articles to corroborate the potential dangers of vegetarainism and veganism:
http://www.humantruth.info/vegetarianism.html
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psychology/health_psychology/vegpage.html
Here, i did manage to pull up some apparently trustworthy sources about the risks of these diets. obviously this is not an easy task on the internet, but i avoided any article that seemed like it was biased one way or the other from the get-go.
it also seems that there may be ways to offset the danger, or mitigate it somewhat at least, so imo that is good news. so perhaps the bottom line is do not throw yourself into vegetarianism or veganism as it exists as a fad, and do not discredit the importance of meat altogether. nature selected our diets for us, so imo we tinker with nature's design at our own risk. but obviously everybody has to take that risk based on their own decision.
Take a look at our teeth.  We were ment to consume fruits and vegetables. There is a reason eskimos only live to thirty
Could you please send me the link for that picture?
also, Quote:
plektheplek said: I was a vegetarian for 2 years give or take and I got TERRIBLY sick for a huge portion of that time because I was stubborn and wouldn't eat some meat
so about 1-13 years old I was vegatarian. Grew up with vegatarian parents. But they didnt mind if I ate meat. Its a personal choice. About 13-17.5 I ate meats heavily. And 17.5-19 years I have been vegatarian
These are all approx numbers. But the healthiest I have felt was recently. abbout 13-17.5 years of age I was fairly out of shape even though I worked out. I definately felt less healthy and energetic. However I felt more energetic than 1-13 years of age. 1-13 years old was probably the most unhealthy period in my life. And that was because I wasn't doing vegatarian right
You have to supply your body with real food. It sounds like an obvious idea. But at the time this was a radical concept for me lol. If you are a vegatarian and eating processed veggie food that is honestly worse than eating meats that are processed
So in my experience (which is fairly limited), vegatarian, when done right, is better than a meat heavy diet. But the reason for posting this thread is that I feel like pescatarian diet would b best. Freshwater fish here and there would be a great addition
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