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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19361781 - 01/03/14 01:48 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.

Pesticides are not the only thing harmful to agriculture. Agriculture is also harmful because you constantly have to expand land, since you can only use the soil a number of times before it degrades to a certain point. You destroy the natural habitat of thousands of wild animals in the process of agriculture. Basically, unless you're using permaculture techniques, it is going to be harmful and unsustainable to the environment.
You failed to refute my main points...
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Loc: outer space
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19361787 - 01/03/14 01:51 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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I wasn't refuting your points. I was adding to them.
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healing
Strangest



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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19361947 - 01/03/14 02:54 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Humans evolved to be hunters and gatherers. Over the course of human history the ever increasing rate at which technology advances has made it possible for humans to have meat in quantities unavailable to our ancestors.
Our bodies have evolved to gorge on berries when we find them because they were not always easily available, so now that we have processed sugar we shove it down our fat, american faces all day long. Same thing.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: healing] 2
#19362372 - 01/03/14 08:05 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19362817 - 01/03/14 10:49 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
I know that wild game is most likely better for the environment. But it is only slightly more ethical IMO. Thats why I kind of began being vegatarian. We never really think about how the animal got killed
And wild game is a step up from factory farming. If I were to be eating meat, I would have to say that wild game is the better idea. But the mere idea of killing an animal for a meal when I don't have to is just unessacary
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: thelanzii]
#19362847 - 01/03/14 10:58 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.

Pesticides are not the only thing harmful to agriculture. Agriculture is also harmful because you constantly have to expand land, since you can only use the soil a number of times before it degrades to a certain point. You destroy the natural habitat of thousands of wild animals in the process of agriculture. Basically, unless you're using permaculture techniques, it is going to be harmful and unsustainable to the environment.
You failed to refute my main points...
its only harmful cuz the way we do it
if you were to live on your own land, you would need meat to live.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19362881 - 01/03/14 11:08 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
I know that wild game is most likely better for the environment. But it is only slightly more ethical IMO. Thats why I kind of began being vegatarian. We never really think about how the animal got killed
And wild game is a step up from factory farming. If I were to be eating meat, I would have to say that wild game is the better idea. But the mere idea of killing an animal for a meal when I don't have to is just unessacary
Animals that are factory farmed never experience natural lives. They live in torture conditions for their entire terrifying, agonizing existences. They are confined in tiny cages, crowded and abused, mutilated and fed unnatural foods. They often never see the sun or get to roam freely. Then they are brutally slaughtered.
Animals that are hunted live a completely wild, natural existence, in natural habits, under the sun, in the woods and fresh air, behaving naturally, mating and raising young, until the moment they are shot with a gun and bow and die.
To say that one is "only slightly more ethical" is absurd. Hunting is MUCH more ethical than factory farming, not only because of the quality of life a wild animal enjoys as opposed to a factory farmed animal, but also because hunting has a much lower environmental cost (hunting is eating local, no growth hormones, less greenhouse gas emissions etc)
In other words hunting is both much more humane and much more environmental.
However being vegetarian is a compassionate choice if done correctly. Some vegetarian foods are highly environmentally destructive. For example, many vegetarians replace meat with soy, but soy is often a genetically modified, pesiticide and fertilizer intensive monoculture that is grown on deforested rainforest land.
Eating soy is actually more environmentally destructive and results in the deaths of more animals than eating grass fed beef. This is because grass fed beef is raised in pasture, which can support many forms of life, while monocultures like soy allow only a single lifeform (soy) to exist, and chemical poisons are used to kill every single rodent and insect.
In otherwords, sometimes eating vegan or vegetarian kills more animals and destroys more wildlife than eating meat, but it takes some research to know.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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Tycoda
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19362938 - 01/03/14 11:22 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan by causing the human to deprive themselves of essential nutrient sources that are never as well-absorbed or in adequate quantities in the vegetarian / vegan alternatives...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19362946 - 01/03/14 11:24 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said: Its important to realize that eating factory farmed pork, beef and chicken or ocean caught fish or shrimp is highly environmentally destructive, totally inhuman, probably unhealthy and very unsustainable.
However eating wild game such as hunted elk, bison, deer, moose or grassfed beef is much healthier, more ethical and less ecologically harmful.
I know that wild game is most likely better for the environment. But it is only slightly more ethical IMO. Thats why I kind of began being vegatarian. We never really think about how the animal got killed
And wild game is a step up from factory farming. If I were to be eating meat, I would have to say that wild game is the better idea. But the mere idea of killing an animal for a meal when I don't have to is just unessacary
Animals that are factory farmed never experience natural lives. They live in torture conditions for their entire terrifying, agonizing existences. They are confined in tiny cages, crowded and abused, mutilated and fed unnatural foods. They often never see the sun or get to roam freely. Then they are brutally slaughtered.
Animals that are hunted live a completely wild, natural existence, in natural habits, under the sun, in the woods and fresh air, behaving naturally, mating and raising young, until the moment they are shot with a gun and bow and die.
To say that one is "only slightly more ethical" is absurd. Hunting is MUCH more ethical than factory farming, not only because of the quality of life a wild animal enjoys as opposed to a factory farmed animal, but also because hunting has a much lower environmental cost (hunting is eating local, no growth hormones, less greenhouse gas emissions etc)
In other words hunting is both much more humane and much more environmental.
However being vegetarian is a compassionate choice if done correctly. Some vegetarian foods are highly environmentally destructive. For example, many vegetarians replace meat with soy, but soy is often a genetically modified, pesiticide and fertilizer intensive monoculture that is grown on deforested rainforest land.
Eating soy is actually more environmentally destructive and results in the deaths of more animals than eating grass fed beef. This is because grass fed beef is raised in pasture, which can support many forms of life, while monocultures like soy allow only a single lifeform (soy) to exist, and chemical poisons are used to kill every single rodent and insect.
In otherwords, sometimes eating vegan or vegetarian kills more animals and destroys more wildlife than eating meat, but it takes some research to know.
damn thats actually really true. If you actually compare the lives of elk or bison that are hunted they are not that bad. In that sense, wild game is much more ethical lol

Also, I read about that somewhere too. I kind of cut soy from my diet entirely too
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: k00laid]
#19362951 - 01/03/14 11:25 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
k00laid said:
Quote:
Nemmies said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Nemmies said: The production of meat is far more harmful, due to methane output and soil erosion. Pesticides are an unfortunate practice of agriculture but as a whole meat production is far more harmful, to ourselves and the planet. Not to mention that fact that you cannot produce meat without agriculture and the overwhelming large amount of water it takes to produce a pound of meat compared to other mediums of food.

Pesticides are not the only thing harmful to agriculture. Agriculture is also harmful because you constantly have to expand land, since you can only use the soil a number of times before it degrades to a certain point. You destroy the natural habitat of thousands of wild animals in the process of agriculture. Basically, unless you're using permaculture techniques, it is going to be harmful and unsustainable to the environment.
You failed to refute my main points...
its only harmful cuz the way we do it
if you were to live on your own land, you would need meat to live.
werd
If I were a native american I would be killing bison left and right
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topdog82
Death Spirit



Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 7,992
Loc: California
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19362964 - 01/03/14 11:27 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
how would you say that lol?
why would being vegatarian have an unpleasant affect?
Look at moonshoe's description of how animals are raised in factory farms. its disgusting. Accumilating that much cruelty and suffering in an animal, then killing it and eating it...
Sounds like a bad idea to me
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19362982 - 01/03/14 11:32 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Just tried ostrich the other day. Fucking delicious and lean
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Crystal G]
#19362993 - 01/03/14 11:35 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said: I wasn't refuting your points. I was adding to them.
You were in fact missing his points entirely. Excessive consumption of meat is ruining the planet because it's an incredibly inefficient way of getting protein into your body. Meat production doesn't come in place of agriculture; it comes on top of it and only adds inefficiencies to the food production system.
In addition, consumption of meat isn't necessary, but eating a healthy truly vegan diet is really cumbersome and in fact a bit risky. It makes more sense to consume eggs and dairy, and then you might as well eat the leftover cows and steers and old-aged hens and roosters as well.
As to the issue laid out in the OP: OP, consider that you may actually be the normal one in terms of physical form, while your brother is probably just up there with the overweight and/or pumped up Americans that somehow make up the stereotype these days. It's perfectly healthy for an adult male to weight 150-160lbs.
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Tycoda
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: topdog82]
#19363009 - 01/03/14 11:38 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
topdog82 said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: vegetarianism also slowly kills the human who becomes a vegetarian / vegan...
imo sometimes the most ethical course of action is to look at how a choice impacts ourselves first, and not just form our morals based on how some fabricated animal is affected, since everything that we create inside of ourselves we also create outside from ourselves.
how would you say that lol?
why would being vegatarian have an unpleasant affect?
Look at moonshoe's description of how animals are raised in factory farms. its disgusting. Accumilating that much cruelty and suffering in an animal, then killing it and eating it...
Sounds like a bad idea to me
there is plenty of evidence to corroborate the claim that vegetarianism has many disastrous effects on the human body. your own research can confirm that.
although of course, eating meat that comes from an animal who lived in horrible living conditions is not ideal, either... but the way out of that mess is not to deprive ourselves, since the more that human beings deteriorate in their health, the less we are able to make any lasting change toward the better.
so it is a difficult ethical situation that requires some reason and forethought, rather than snap decisions based on gut feeling.
do you eat the meat that is available to us in order to make yourself healthy and then do something about the problem, or do you eat no meat so that your health deteriorates meanwhile the problem still exists?
evidently it is not a simple black and white issue.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363018 - 01/03/14 11:39 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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I have actually heard many sources claim that vegetarians suffer substantially lower rates of illness and disease, and have longer average lifespans.
However I know from personal experience when I do not eat meat I lose muscle mass and weight and feel perpetually hungry with meat cravings.
--------------------
Everything I post is fiction.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda]
#19363024 - 01/03/14 11:41 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tycoda said: there is plenty of evidence to corroborate the claim that vegetarianism has many disastrous effects on the human body. your own research can confirm that.
I'll gladly sit back eating tofu while you present us that evidence. Go ahead then. You're the ones making claims here.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Moonshoe]
#19363029 - 01/03/14 11:42 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: I have actually heard many sources claim that vegetarians suffer substantially lower rates of illness and disease, and have longer average lifespans.
However I know from personal experience when I do not eat meat I lose muscle mass and weight and feel perpetually hungry with meat cravings.
Muscle mass is my reason for slamming down meat. That and its fucking tastey with all the seasonings you can add
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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Tycoda
Stranger

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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koraks]
#19363039 - 01/03/14 11:44 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said:
Quote:
Tycoda said: there is plenty of evidence to corroborate the claim that vegetarianism has many disastrous effects on the human body. your own research can confirm that.
I'll gladly sit back eating tofu while you present us that evidence. Go ahead then. You're the ones making claims here.
it makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not - in fact you should not simply take my word for it, anyway, since this is entirely useless to you. if somebody has a sincere desire to find out the truth of the matter, they will. and if they do not, then they will disregard the evidence even if i presented it to them.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: Tycoda] 1
#19363054 - 01/03/14 11:47 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Man, honestly, you're so full of shit. Really. Go away.
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Tycoda
Stranger

Registered: 12/23/13
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Re: Is eating meat healthier? [Re: koraks]
#19363062 - 01/03/14 11:48 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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your tofu has not made you into a kind or tolerant person.
additionally, you tell me to find proof for you because you want to be spoonfed, but will you present to me evidence that vegetarianism is healthy so that i can claim that it is bunk proof, or come up with another reason to discredit it? because this is all that you aspire to do.
Edited by Tycoda (01/03/14 11:54 AM)
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