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kykeion
Cactophile



Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 181
Loc: High desert
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: Galidor4]
#19694849 - 03/14/14 10:59 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey Galidor4!
Nice to see another Colorado grower on here!
I've got a single B cappi in my collection. I think she was originally a cutting that was rooted when I bought her. I'm happy to hear you have had success acclimating your plants to the dry air here.
Most of my plant died back last summer when plant sitter failed to water her while I was out of town. Fortunately she survived and has been putting out new growth.
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FrostyC
Stranger


Registered: 05/19/12
Posts: 77
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: naum]
#19697101 - 03/14/14 09:22 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
naum said: As someone who just had to cut back several well-established trees and all of my well-established caapi due unseasonably cold weather (~23 F), you are mistaken. No doubt that some protection or even just the microenviroment of a specific plant can add a zone or two of protection, but 0 F and 10 F just are not going to happen with M. speciosa or B. caapi.
ferrel_human said his handled a freeze down to 19°F.
Different types of Kratom acclimate differently. It just all depends on how resilient a particular variety is. You can't possibly KNOW that it won't work. I have worked hard at hardening this Kratom tree, because our weather fluctuates from one extreme to another. It can snow one day, then we have 60°F day. Sometimes the temps only drop at night (this caused some leaf loss at first, but now it doesn't at all). When I first got it, anything below 60°F caused some wilting. Now I don't see any signs of wilting until it drops below 40°F. Life adapts. It will always try to find a way to live, even under inhospitable conditions. Just imagine if it becomes cold hardy & passes that adaptation to any offspring. Just imagine how much this would open up new zones for Kratom growing. I mean, it's worth a try right?
As I said, I am aware that it is unlikely it will survive, but it really is my only option & I am hopeful, but not disillusioned.
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naum



Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 4,069
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: FrostyC]
#19699920 - 03/15/14 12:18 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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And I contested his claim back then. First of all, the minimum temperature data for the past 10 years his locale shows no dip down to 19 F. Secondly, his tree is in a fairly protected position--and it was more protected when it was in pot--which is quite evident based on his pictures. That can add a zone of two worth of protection meaning that a 19 F (how long? wet?) as recorded by a weather station can actually be 29+ F at the tree.
Adaptation does not work the way you describe and it is a slow and painstaking process. There are a handful of cultivars in cultivation and I was growing every single one I could find a reference to until this past freeze. No one is working on breeding kratom as far as I'm aware and almost no one is getting it to flower reliably.
Sure, it's worth growing plants even in zones that do not favor them. I do however have a problem with people speading misinformation like kratom can survive a hard freeze of 10 F
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FrostyC
Stranger


Registered: 05/19/12
Posts: 77
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: naum]
#19701990 - 03/15/14 10:48 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
naum said: And I contested his claim back then. First of all, the minimum temperature data for the past 10 years his locale shows no dip down to 19 F. Secondly, his tree is in a fairly protected position--and it was more protected when it was in pot--which is quite evident based on his pictures. That can add a zone of two worth of protection meaning that a 19 F (how long? wet?) as recorded by a weather station can actually be 29+ F at the tree.
Adaptation does not work the way you describe and it is a slow and painstaking process. There are a handful of cultivars in cultivation and I was growing every single one I could find a reference to until this past freeze. No one is working on breeding kratom as far as I'm aware and almost no one is getting it to flower reliably.
Sure, it's worth growing plants even in zones that do not favor them. I do however have a problem with people speading misinformation like kratom can survive a hard freeze of 10 F
Yeah how long & how wet are the optimum questions to ask I guess. No one is spreading misinformation. No one said Kratom could handle a hard freeze of 10 F. Kratom CAN SURVIVE 10°F ambient temps (for a brief period). MY PLANT DID! This was NOT a wet freeze though. It lost some leaves & slowed the new leaves from growing a lot, but it survived about 8 hrs outside one night, because I forgot and left it out there all night. Is this spectacular news or something? I'm sure most plants can handle temps down to that cold FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD. We are talking about survival here, and you cannot definitively say that NO KRATOM PLANT WOULD EVER SURVIVE THIS. If you had 100 kratom trees & it went down to 10°F do you not think one would survive?
In horse racing terms (I am from KY ), you're betting on the favorite because the odds say he has the best chance of winning, but the long-shot has a bigger payoff.
Adaptation is the wrong word to use there. Thank you for that correction, you're right, adaptation DOES NOT work that way. "Conditioning" is closer to what I meant. Environmental changes have been known to kick-start evolutionary mutations in certain species, and is much safer than using something like colchicine to induce any mutation. I know the immediate offspring would not be THAT different. Hell, it may take an entire human lifetime or longer to force a GENETIC change like that. But it's worth a try, can't hurt, don't try this at home, your mileage may vary, results not typical. I got it man. Stop stepping on my optimism though. Sheesh!
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kellogg
economist...ist


Registered: 07/05/13
Posts: 49
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: Galidor4]
#19707197 - 03/17/14 03:11 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Sweet:) ive always wanted to grow N. Caapi but never did. This thread is making me want to again
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,849
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: naum]
#19707505 - 03/17/14 07:15 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
naum said: First of all, the minimum temperature data for the past 10 years his locale shows no dip down to 19 F.
Like temperature data from the news and internet? Those are just average and general temperature readings.

You can't possibly disclaim this from "temperature data". Cold snaps can happen that don't get recorded. And thus, scheduled cold weather can also NOT happen.
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naum



Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 4,069
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: 1234go]
#19708091 - 03/17/14 11:19 AM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you know where to look, you can get the actual daily minimum (not daily average) and in fact the whole weather station log though that gets to be a pain. So, yes it is possible to make the claim that the none of temperature stations in his locale never experienced the temperature he reported. Cold snaps get recorded and reported.
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,849
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: naum]
#19709833 - 03/17/14 06:28 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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They can record every square inch of every square mile of every nook and cranny on earth? With precise timing and exact accuracy?
I'm not trying to antagonize, I definitely don't think I know it all. But that seems kinda stretched.
I've experienced many cold snaps that were never expected or reported by weather stations. And many warm days that were supposed to stay in the 50's.
So i'm just wondering how this makes sense. The stations are recording in that spot, and someones home say 15-20 miles away. Over the river and through the woods and down a cliff face can experience a colder/warmer temperature than a few temperature stations with some machines.
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Chemical Addiction



Registered: 08/16/11
Posts: 2,020
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: 1234go]
#19725985 - 03/20/14 09:52 PM (9 years, 10 months ago) |
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I missed this thread when lurking, posting to keep in threads.
Here's a current picture, I had to cut it back by about half when I moved earlier this month, is was getting long anyways.
Its losing some leaves because I forgot to water once last week, it will recover, my kratom lost all of its leaves I expect it to recover as well
-------------------- Vegetation has crawled for miles towards the cities. It is waiting. Once the city is dead, the vegetation will cover it, will climb over the stones, grip them, search them, make them burst with its long black pincers; it will blind the holes and let its green paws hang over everything. —Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea
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plant-paradise
Kawan


Registered: 04/17/12
Posts: 349
Loc: The World
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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my b-caapi grown from seed last year.
one day of no attention and direct sunburn 
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fortheloveofnature


Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 1,321
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just got 4 cuttings ! any suggestions or methods to root these guys ? i got a cuttings with 4 leaves on it should i cut them off or keep 2 on ?
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Galidor4
Beholder



Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 854
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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For caapi specifically, I wouldn't touch the plant until you know EXACTLY how not to kill it. Otherwise you're bound to miss something, being as they're so damn finicky, but that's just my experience.
Anyways, when I get unrooted caapi, I put them in dh2o with around 250-300ppm of GA-3. I let them soak in that for 24 hours in a jar. I then change the water every day until I see roots. Usually, they sprout leaves first. And it can take up to 6 weeks or even longer to get roots.
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FunkyBuddha
Mycophile


Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 280
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: Galidor4]
#20071868 - 06/02/14 12:07 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just got two B. Caapi plants (don't think I'm allowed to say where I bought from?) about 4 days ago, they arrived as root stockin pretty ordinary condition. Most definitely alive and well but the leaves were very wilted and as you can see very bruised. The top and bottom images are the 'cielo' plant 4 days after being potted and the middle two images are the 'Nuevo ola' plant 4 days after being potted.
They seem to be alive and semi-well but I'm not sure what else I can be doing to ensure their health, any tips?
Growing these makes me so excited for my future ethnobotanical garden, I'm going to attempt to set it up in a permaculture 'food forest' style environment so I'll just have to make sure I keep track of the plants so Christmas dinner isn't too exciting
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TheTortoise

Registered: 02/04/11
Posts: 322
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I received a beautiful lush caapi plant in a pot and put it in the ground not too long before things cooled down for winter. It froze back and I thought it was completely dead, just a few twigs. Then in spring it sprung forth a few shoots. Now its finally making some progress
here it is april 17

july 31

Edited by TheTortoise (07/31/14 07:48 PM)
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1234go
Ban Lotto Champion


Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 53,849
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Nice, very nice man. This gives me hope in putting mine in the ground, waitin' for spring.
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P.Zappatecorum
Lophophilus



Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 2,094
Loc: Cactaceae
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: Galidor4]
#21204996 - 01/30/15 11:32 PM (9 years, 9 hours ago) |
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Finally have something to add to this thread. Grew this plant from seed, had only 1/5 germinate, so I've been very slowly acclimating it to lest humidity, it has finally popped out of the dome and seems to be enjoying the fresh air.

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Galidor4
Beholder



Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 854
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: FunkyBuddha]
#21225560 - 02/04/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
FunkyBuddha said:

Just got two B. Caapi plants (don't think I'm allowed to say where I bought from?) about 4 days ago, they arrived as root stockin pretty ordinary condition. Most definitely alive and well but the leaves were very wilted and as you can see very bruised. The top and bottom images are the 'cielo' plant 4 days after being potted and the middle two images are the 'Nuevo ola' plant 4 days after being potted.
They seem to be alive and semi-well but I'm not sure what else I can be doing to ensure their health, any tips?
Growing these makes me so excited for my future ethnobotanical garden, I'm going to attempt to set it up in a permaculture 'food forest' style environment so I'll just have to make sure I keep track of the plants so Christmas dinner isn't too exciting 
I dunno, maybe someone else can verify, but those look hella dead
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Stonehenge
Alt Center


Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: Galidor4]
#21227010 - 02/04/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 11 months ago) |
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You didn't make it clear if they were rooted when you got them or not. Cuttings usually drop all leaves when rooting but if they survive they will put out new leaves and grow tips.
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Galidor4
Beholder



Registered: 10/10/11
Posts: 854
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: Stonehenge]
#21476133 - 03/29/15 08:06 PM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have a caapi, cielo I'm pretty sure, that I was able to acclimate to Colorado temperature and humidity but it seems that some of its' newer leaves are turning a slightly lighter green as opposed to the dark green of some of the older leaves. Does anyone know what could be doing that?
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drakenov
Wandering Dude


Registered: 04/05/10
Posts: 290
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: B. Caapi growers unite! [Re: Galidor4]
#21477267 - 03/30/15 02:05 AM (8 years, 9 months ago) |
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Have you fertilized it? probably lacking in nitrogen if you haven't.
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