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OfflineEllis Dee
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The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha
    #19316956 - 12/23/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The red pill truth is this...

You've been depressed. You know that feeling like there is no point or meaning to anything. How bad that felt. And why? Because it's undeniably true. Every religion and philosophy that says otherwise is a lie. Those feelings of meaninglessness are what's real, those are moments of clarity and truth. That was the first true thing I realized when I went inside myself. And that acceptance of truth and total rejection of happy dream time lies is the first step towards enlightenment. Realize it, embrace the total meaninglessness and darkness, for that's what you can know for certain is true. And all your fears and beliefs, and opinions, and people around you become meaningless too. I am a fully enlightened, holy, and perfect buddha. Its the biggest nothing of all. What have I gained? Nothing. What have I lost? Everything. What do I have? Total freedom and liberation. Enlightenment isn't what is really being sold. Its like if you go to an ice cream parlor and order a delicious vanilla sunday with chocolate syrup and a cherry on top and get a poke in the eye with a sharp stick instead. I wouldn't change or trade the experience though, for I am an enlightened truth realized entity perfect and holy. But you should know, its not all its cracked up to be.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19316989 - 12/23/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If I rub your belly, will it bring me good luck?
If not, I seriously question the validity of your claim of being a fully enlightened, perfect and holy Buddha.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: TopPmz] * 6
    #19317001 - 12/23/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's weird that more shroomery members haven't noticed how completely insane you are.


--------------------
“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee] * 2
    #19317011 - 12/23/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
I am a fully enlightened, holy, and perfect buddha.




Somebody took too much drugz.

I dig what you're laying down though:thumbup:


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: MisterSandman] * 2
    #19317197 - 12/23/13 05:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

On a recent ego-loss trip, one thing rang very clear and true.
We are a desperate act of emptiness, trying to become something, or discover something about it's self.. At our core, is nothing.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (12/23/13 05:09 PM)


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Offlineseadragon
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Tmethyl]
    #19317242 - 12/23/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what are  nargles


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee] * 2
    #19317257 - 12/23/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Suffering is the most efficient teacher


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19317287 - 12/23/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

faith through resignation of beliefs; is a much broader faith then religious faith.


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InvisibleSARAtonin
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: seadragon] * 4
    #19317359 - 12/23/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

seadragon said:
what are  nargles



Shut your dirty whore mouth sea dragon! :crankynoweed:


--------------------
God kills indiscriminately and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are none so like him as ourselves.

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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: SARAtonin] * 1
    #19317397 - 12/23/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlinestimpson
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19317449 - 12/23/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

whoaaaa

who was that big ass black dude who lived in the ghetto in the apartment above the religious store and loved fat indian pillows.  was that buddha or the god of mormonism?  he had like 30 TVs stacked up in his bedroom.

fuck.  anyway, i'm just gonna get as buff as possible and as rich as possible and only go after girls who make my penis rage like a hot hard samurai sword straight outta the fire.

and name brand clothes?  fuck it.  i'm shopping at the thrift store from now on.


--------------------
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm... ... ...


ok.


Edited by stimpson (12/23/13 06:37 PM)


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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: stimpson]
    #19317468 - 12/23/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

stimpson said:
whoaaaa

who was that big ass black dude who lived in the ghetto in the apartment above the religious store and loved fat indian pillows.  was that buddha or the god of mormonism?

fuck.  anyway, i'm just gonna get as buff as possible and as rich as possible and only go after girls who make my penis rage like a hot hard samurai sword straight outta the fire.

and name brand clothes?  fuck it.  i'm shopping at the thrift store from now on.



Surely this is the best route.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


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Offlinestimpson
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: TopPmz]
    #19317496 - 12/23/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TopPmz said:
Quote:

stimpson said:
whoaaaa

who was that big ass black dude who lived in the ghetto in the apartment above the religious store and loved fat indian pillows.  was that buddha or the god of mormonism?

fuck.  anyway, i'm just gonna get as buff as possible and as rich as possible and only go after girls who make my penis rage like a hot hard samurai sword straight outta the fire.

and name brand clothes?  fuck it.  i'm shopping at the thrift store from now on.



Surely this is the best route.




well i'm not a prophet, but also:  dun be mean!  jus work on ur form.


--------------------
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm... ... ...


ok.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Tmethyl]
    #19318025 - 12/23/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
On a recent ego-loss trip, one thing rang very clear and true.
We are a desperate act of emptiness, trying to become something, or discover something about it's self.. At our core, is nothing.



That is essentially true. Unawakened humans think they are an ego, but it is much like an onion. As I peeled my ego away, by the slow death from 1000 cuts, I experienced permanent ego loss after I had peeled away all the layers I was left with nothing. And that is the truth of it, nothing. And when you are nothing and realize permanent non duality consciousness you put the human suit back on, to interact in the puppet show of sight and sound, it is like the sages and prophets say, you are in the world but not of it. Now, all the world and everything around me is like a soap opera, completely trivial and of only moderate entertainment value. It's kind of like being the only adult in a world of children. Or the only awake person in a world of sleepwalkers.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19318102 - 12/23/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why would one, being in a state of enlightenment and nothingness, choose to "put the human suit back on?" One would think you'd wanna remain in the aforementioned state.

As long as you're still in your body, permanent ego loss is unachievable. However, I wish you luck in your endeavours as a Buddha.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: TopPmz]
    #19318138 - 12/23/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It is difficult to explain in words to people not having experienced it. Its like trying to describe fire to somone that can only see the flickering light on the wall, to use a poor analogy. I have a lot of time to kill, before time kills me, so I share some of my experience of what enlightenment truely is.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19318149 - 12/23/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

As an 'Enlightened One,' shouldn't you now be helping the rest of us poor fools achieve the same level of awesome?


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


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Offlinedrkkenny
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19318177 - 12/23/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well life has no inherent meaning from a detached pov but if you are involved with life then it could be deemed otherwise. We give meaning to our lives, you can apply any meaning you want, as long as you are creating that meaning & you can see its there then good. Some things might fill us up with more meaning than others, some things may raise our awareness of our ability to feel & be aware of the meaning behind our elusive gestures/acts. For some people usually observe events unfold and try to voluntarily extract the data from that text of information as possible, sometimes distracting us from our own meaning and giving it over to a new section of ourselves. A section otherwise unexplored, in some cases. That is there lives feel like an empty void filled with nothing. They haven't learned to define their lives to something that transcends the self to higher horizons, or to places otherwise difficult to climb. For we might encounter something that we realize has acknowledged our own obstructions that prevent us from getting to where we need to be, whereever that may be at whatever time that may happen. Because it does happen, I've had times where its happened to me before, I recall them like theyt were yesterady I tell ya the truth to I wouldn't ever try to put it to you other than how it was equivocally _& truly.


--------------------

No More Stories Are Told Today, I'm Sorry They Washed Away // No More Stories, The World Is Grey, I'm Tired, Let's Wash Away.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19318195 - 12/23/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You're not enlightened, the self is never enlightened, that's the whole idea.

ROFL.

People claiming they are enlightened are telling lies.

"Look at me, I'm enlightened!" lol.


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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: drkkenny]
    #19318198 - 12/23/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Are you saying that you're as enlightened as Ellis Dee?


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: TopPmz]
    #19318206 - 12/23/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Now that would be hypocritical wouldn't it.

But I did develop some interesting "abilities" from practicing meditation.



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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: drkkenny] * 1
    #19318226 - 12/23/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A young monk asked, "Master, what is the path to a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha?"

The Zen pimp replied, "In YO FACE!  Biotch!" as he slapped that annoying bitch.


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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19318245 - 12/23/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes it would, but I was talking to kenny.

And I don't actually think either of them are "enlightened," but this thread is immensely entertaining.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


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Offlinedrkkenny
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: TopPmz]
    #19318271 - 12/23/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am opening a new shop soon. This is my meaning. I have been planning it for awhile with some friends, we went over the plans last week in my basement. I didn't realize they came there a week before. They informed me that they were from Spain and were coming over to see me about something, just something he mentioned last week before tennis ended, 10 minutes before tennis ended I got a call from this guy and he sent me something. He called from a payphone in London. He has used that payphone before I know. A few years ago he called me when he was in a dire emergency, something about an accident that just happened to him. He didn't expect an accident all of a sudden but it happened. He in some ways brought it upon himself admittingly, and he could never deny this no matter how much his self conscious tried to grapple with the concept. Well I moved someone to China awhile ago. I didn't mean to let him know I went to a park earlier. I let that slip out on mistake, but I'm going to apologize next time I see him. I'm not the kind of person to walk past a person without acknowledging them, I assure you I will say something so they will know I didn't mean it.

I have contacted someone about opening a similar shop near mine. I'm insisting that he transfers his old shop to this new location, that he cannot refuse my offer. I've sent him my proposal countless times & must hear back from him as soon as possible. I've been working for him part time last May, I remember it clear as crystal. He put me on the line for some time and then took me off. I worked for over 30 days straight, I would get up early in the morning and go out to the fields and collect fruits & vegetables. I began to cultivate my hunting skills, they reached a development that peaked to such heights that my former hunting days never looked the same. I could never look back to how I hunted now to how I hunt today lets just say that. I'm more of a person that survives on nature and the bare land. I lived in Africa for over 30 years, I'm an adventurer that travels to foreign countries and travel around the land. I've been searching for a new adventure, and I have submitted a number of earnest requests to the creator of the projection if they have a new adventure they'd like to offer me. For I'm always up for an adventure. I must go on an adventure soon I suppose. I'm on an adventure out West somewhere next Tuesday. I fear my friends might not have as much of an adventure spirit as myself tho, for I pursue adventurers as if its my natural accustomed instinct. So I've lived in Africa for so many years and I've created my own trible. I'm afraid I rarely relate this story with most people, and usually would control myself or refrain from uttering it for fear of confusion. I try not to confuse people on purpose, usually I try to get people out of that confused state of mind. I try to put the thought of that confusion disappearing soon enoughinto their noggin.


--------------------

No More Stories Are Told Today, I'm Sorry They Washed Away // No More Stories, The World Is Grey, I'm Tired, Let's Wash Away.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19318277 - 12/23/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
A young monk asked, "Master, what is the path to a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha?"

The Zen pimp replied, "In YO FACE!  Biotch!" as he slapped that annoying bitch.




.... And the annoying little biotch was suddenly enlightened.

:lol:


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OfflineTopPmz
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: drkkenny]
    #19318291 - 12/23/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Will your new shop sell the keys to enlightenment?


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: TopPmz]
    #19318320 - 12/23/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
It is difficult to explain in words to people not having experienced it. Its like trying to describe fire to somone that can only see the flickering light on the wall, to use a poor analogy. I have a lot of time to kill, before time kills me, so I share some of my experience of what enlightenment truely is.




Perceiving from a point from beyond the self.

Looking through the eyes without having to look through a filter of the self.


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19318338 - 12/23/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
You know that feeling like there is no point or meaning to anything. How bad that felt. And why?



why indeed...

emptiness/voidness isn't a depressing thought to me--if anything, having no inherent meaning or purpose grants one the freedom to create their own meaning




--------------------


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19318372 - 12/23/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So, the way you can point to enlightenment without claiming it for yourself is simply stating that it is there. Otherwise you might put off a "holier than thou" vibe which people won't want to relate too.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19318442 - 12/23/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you desire for people to relate to you, you are somehow burdened by the world, not enlightened.

I don't believe in enlightenment.  It is like celebrity, more in our heads as an idealized version of ourselves than an actual thing that makes other people more special than us.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19318447 - 12/23/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There is enlightenment, but you aren't in it! hahaha.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19318476 - 12/23/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
If you desire for people to relate to you, you are somehow burdened by the world, not enlightened.

I don't believe in enlightenment.  It is like celebrity, more in our heads as an idealized version of ourselves than an actual thing that makes other people more special than us.




Has nothing to do with desiring to be liked, it has to do with presenting the case for enlightenment.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19318509 - 12/23/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
You know that feeling like there is no point or meaning to anything. How bad that felt. And why?



why indeed...

emptiness/voidness isn't a depressing thought to me--if anything, having no inherent meaning or purpose grants one the freedom to create their own meaning






I hate to compliment people who very likely place no value in it, but I must in this case.
Quite a special and succinct sentiment above. :awepreciation:


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19318544 - 12/23/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
If you desire for people to relate to you, you are somehow burdened by the world, not enlightened.

I don't believe in enlightenment.  It is like celebrity, more in our heads as an idealized version of ourselves than an actual thing that makes other people more special than us.




Has nothing to do with desiring to be liked, it has to do with presenting the case for enlightenment.




So it has to do with desire for other people to be enlightened?  Would you even go as far as to say that you are somewhat dissatisfied with the world as it stands and this causes an emotional response?

I don't see how someone can be simultaneously alive and enlightened.  I mean, what is the point?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Tmethyl]
    #19318546 - 12/23/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

sometimes it's good to know i make sense to others :yesnod:


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: TopPmz]
    #19318561 - 12/23/13 09:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TopPmz said:
As an 'Enlightened One,' shouldn't you now be helping the rest of us poor fools achieve the same level of awesome?



I wouldn't call it awesomeness, that was half the point of the original point that its not. I have no need or desire or even ability to help anyone reach enlightenment either. It can only be done for yourself, no one else can help you awaken. Its like someone asleep but slapping them will just piss them off while sleepwalking, not wake them up.

But if you want it here's the directions. Ask yourself who you are. Literally, "Who am I?" After you strip off all the layers of bullshit and a couple years you'll have peeled off your ego layers. There are volumes of commentary on the subject of "Who am I?" and they are all bullshit. All you need is that phrase.

As an enlightened buddha I suppose I could give you tips, but thats really it, it can only be done by yourself. Its like a catterpillar going into a cocoon, there is only room for one, only you can transform, or wake your self up. And when you do and you will because no creature can deny their own nature forever, you will be enlightened. Its really a lot of nothing, of becoming the void, pretty over rated and not pretty like is advertized. I hope this is understandable. Kindly yours.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #19318762 - 12/23/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
I am a fully enlightened, holy, and perfect buddha ... I am an enlightened truth realized entity perfect and holy. But you should know, its not all its cracked up to be.





anyone who says they are enlightened... isn't

:buddha2:


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: 404]
    #19318841 - 12/23/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

once, a long time ago, there were two clans of monks that appeared in the king's court asking for permission to build a temple.

"i can't endorse both clans," the king thought, "i'll test the both of them."

the king asked both clans of monks to enter a cave for a year, meditate, and paint a mural that best represented their ideals.

one clan of monks diligently meditated every morning, and spent the afternoon carefully painting a mandala representing the great buddha and their nature.

the other clan of monks brought in many jars of alcohol, and spent the day getting drunk and rubbing the wall with alcohol and rags.  every day, they rubbed and rubbed and rubbed the wall.

at the end of the year, one side of the cave boasted a beautiful, unbelievably intricate mural of the king's court as a mandala hosting the buddha.  the other side of the wall simply shimmered brilliantly like a mirror.

the king asked the clan that had simply rubbed the wall, "what have you done?  i asked you to paint a mural!"  one of the monks, still drunk, said "yes your majesty, look into the reflection, that clan painted the mural but we brought it to life!"


--------------------
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm... ... ...


ok.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319025 - 12/23/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

So it has to do with desire for other people to be enlightened?  Would you even go as far as to say that you are somewhat dissatisfied with the world as it stands and this causes an emotional response?

I don't see how someone can be simultaneously alive and enlightened.  I mean, what is the point?




That desire is for a bodhisattva, but you guys aren't even talking about enlightenment, you are talking about anatta, which is only a part of enlightenment.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319077 - 12/23/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

fock :facepalm: now I have to read through a bunch more shit to realize that life is horseshit.  Can you plese recommend a better way to spend time?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319100 - 12/23/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Here, this is what they are talking about, anti-cartesianism:



See the infinite regression necessary to sustain the idea of self?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319113 - 12/23/13 11:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Instead of thinking you are looking at a picture inside your head, you just look at the picture with the eyes.

Simple really, but complicated if you're looking from self.



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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319157 - 12/23/13 11:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:lol: but the man in my head pissis and shits alot nastier shit than me physical self.  Whattoyado?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319178 - 12/23/13 11:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There is no man in that head, ethereal or otherwise, it's an illusion.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319197 - 12/23/13 11:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I wish


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319233 - 12/24/13 12:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Do you really?

All you have to do is focus and look to see through it.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319265 - 12/24/13 12:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

He is a silly bitxh with a mouthful of lasagna.  I am looking through reality.  I see it.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319271 - 12/24/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't believe you.

Who is looking?

Does you exist?

If so then how, if not then why?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319283 - 12/24/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No I focking exist because something this conscious to eating lasagna on a slightly boozesick stomach couldn't happen without divine inspiratioon.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319288 - 12/24/13 12:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You exist, but you doesn't exist.

Figure that out.

Look, all you have to do is focus on the question of what is this "I" thing is pointing at really, toss it around in your head, question it. Try to find it.

No one can do it for you, you have to do the looking from the point beyond self.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319311 - 12/24/13 12:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ARRGH!  Itsso frustrating tho!  Like I can see that inner peace but it doesn't have anything to do with this physical body.  Are you encouraging suicide?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319325 - 12/24/13 12:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lol, not physical suicide, but suicide of the self. If you are being the self then it might feel that way until you get beyond it. You have to just jump in. If you start feeling scared it is actually good and your making progress and are looking in the right place.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19319353 - 12/24/13 01:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Naw not scared, just nauseaus :puke: fucking vodka


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19319363 - 12/24/13 01:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Try Looking at it again when you're sober.

Satori does feel a bit disorienting, but if you're drinking it probably wont work.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19320610 - 12/24/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
You're not enlightened, the self is never enlightened, that's the whole idea.

ROFL.

People claiming they are enlightened are telling lies.

"Look at me, I'm enlightened!" lol.



"I" don't have a "self". For the words we use make this difficult because they typically refer to the ego. "I" do not have an I, as I no longer abide in duality conciousness. It seems like a paradox until you go through it and stop having a "self" I suppose.


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And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix] * 1
    #19320637 - 12/24/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

So it has to do with desire for other people to be enlightened?  Would you even go as far as to say that you are somewhat dissatisfied with the world as it stands and this causes an emotional response?

I don't see how someone can be simultaneously alive and enlightened.  I mean, what is the point?




That desire is for a bodhisattva, but you guys aren't even talking about enlightenment, you are talking about anatta, which is only a part of enlightenment.



Buddhist theology and bodisattva is a bag of rocks. You have to let go of that. It ties up the thinking like the gordian knot. The only approach to untangle it is like Alexander and slice in in twain. The whole knot itself is incinerated with all your other beliefs and opinions and everything else that makes you you. Its not glamorous. Like I said no one wants or actually seeks enlightenment. They seek some cosmic heaven on Earth mysticism and glamorize the path to becoming enlightened like the quest after the holy grail.

But its not like that. In the Gita Arjuna becomes enlightened when Krishna shows him the truth. He didn't want to launch that war that would destroy him and kill his family, but it was like the universe took a dump on him. That's what enlightenment is, not glamourous at all. If you want to be a mystic than be a mystic and get mystical experiences, I've had a few they're great, but thats not what enlightenment is. Enlightenment is when you become a truth realized being.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19320645 - 12/24/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Sure...

Try learning Asian languages; they define situations that happen, not the person included.

"The glass of water has dropped!"
"you dropped the glass of water"

Have fun being enlightened, somebody has to be :lol:


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19320747 - 12/24/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Buddhist theology and bodisattva is a bag of rocks. You have to let go of that. It ties up the thinking like the gordian knot. The only approach to untangle it is like Alexander and slice in in twain. The whole knot itself is incinerated with all your other beliefs and opinions and everything else that makes you you. Its not glamorous. Like I said no one wants or actually seeks enlightenment. They seek some cosmic heaven on Earth mysticism and glamorize the path to becoming enlightened like the quest after the holy grail.

But its not like that. In the Gita Arjuna becomes enlightened when Krishna shows him the truth. He didn't want to launch that war that would destroy him and kill his family, but it was like the universe took a dump on him. That's what enlightenment is, not glamourous at all. If you want to be a mystic than be a mystic and get mystical experiences, I've had a few they're great, but thats not what enlightenment is. Enlightenment is when you become a truth realized being.




Krishna is a bag of rocks as well, don't grasp at it. The only reason you think it has anything to do with Krishna is because that is what you were led to believe, so when it happened you naturally think that was the cause, but it isn't.

Why do you refer to yourself as Buddha if it has no meaning? lol . . .

These are all just process pointing at the same truth, pointers is all they are, not the truth.

The problem isn't with language, it is with your articulation.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19320785 - 12/24/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Oh, and NO, you are not enlightened, even in some sort of paradox of language, ever.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19320792 - 12/24/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, yes, krishna is a bag of rocks as well, I'm happy you see that. There is nothing but poor ways for me to articulate these concepts but words like buddha and krishna consciousness are the best adjectives I can use. I'm sure Prince Siddartha had the same problem but was perhaps better spoken or more articulate. The real lesson Siddartha can teach is that he became enlightened on his own and everyone does it by themselves. Kindly.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19320795 - 12/24/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Did they ever claim enlightenment of themselves?

Seriously, what is there to be enlightened?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19320803 - 12/24/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Oh, and NO, you are not enlightened, even in some sort of paradox of language, ever.

That is the first clue, the second one is your attachment to the path you took.



I have no attachment. Its not something you cultivate, its a byproduct of being enlightened, it comes as a side effect. Reminiscances are not attachments. There may be as many paths to the Pacific ocean as there are travelers but there is one Pacific ocean. Kindly.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19320808 - 12/24/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Rofl, keep telling yourself that and you won't make any more progress.

You have been deceived.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix] * 1
    #19320838 - 12/24/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And once again Buddhists come out of the woodwork and fuck everything


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19320855 - 12/24/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Anyways, I have a feeling you'll figure it out eventually.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: lot_justice]
    #19320860 - 12/24/13 12:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

lot_justice said:
And once again Buddhists come out of the woodwork and fuck everything




I'm not a Buddhist, or any other belief system.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha (moved) [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19326293 - 12/25/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This thread was moved from The Pub.

Reason:
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19326713 - 12/25/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
The red pill truth is this...

You've been depressed. You know that feeling like there is no point or meaning to anything. How bad that felt. And why? Because it's undeniably true. Every religion and philosophy that says otherwise is a lie. Those feelings of meaninglessness are what's real, those are moments of clarity and truth. That was the first true thing I realized when I went inside myself. And that acceptance of truth and total rejection of happy dream time lies is the first step towards enlightenment. Realize it, embrace the total meaninglessness and darkness, for that's what you can know for certain is true. And all your fears and beliefs, and opinions, and people around you become meaningless too. I am a fully enlightened, holy, and perfect buddha. Its the biggest nothing of all. What have I gained? Nothing. What have I lost? Everything. What do I have? Total freedom and liberation. Enlightenment isn't what is really being sold. Its like if you go to an ice cream parlor and order a delicious vanilla sunday with chocolate syrup and a cherry on top and get a poke in the eye with a sharp stick instead. I wouldn't change or trade the experience though, for I am an enlightened truth realized entity perfect and holy. But you should know, its not all its cracked up to be.





:lol::thumbup:  I think I know what you're talking about.


--------------------
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" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

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The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19327029 - 12/25/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Oh, and NO, you are not enlightened, even in some sort of paradox of language, ever.

That is the first clue, the second one is your attachment to the path you took.



I have no attachment. Its not something you cultivate, its a byproduct of being enlightened, it comes as a side effect.




You have it backwards.  Non attachment isn't a byproduct of enlightenment, enlightenment is a byproduct of non attachment.  You first have to let go of all the shit in your head, to make room for something deeper and more genuine to rise up and take its place.

A state of meaningless and darkness, is the opposite of enlightenment.  Inner meaningless and darkness is a byproduct of fear.  It's what's left when the world beats you down until you're numb.


--------------------
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19327084 - 12/25/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I would suggest to work on Metta, or find the third eye (if you haven't already)  next Ellis, and may you find out what enlightenment is and then decide if it is what it is cracked up to be.


--------------------
.6th and 7th sense theory
.Now is forever. .ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞTheﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞUnseenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ is seenﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ by the blindﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ eye.ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ.When the inevitable time comes, go with your head held high,without regret or remorse, in your subconscious mind.
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ
ﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞﱞ


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: LifeBoy]
    #19327142 - 12/25/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LifeBoy said:
You have it backwards.  Non attachment isn't a byproduct of enlightenment, enlightenment is a byproduct of non attachment.  You first have to let go of all the shit in your head, to make room for something deeper and more genuine to rise up and take its place.

A state of meaningless and darkness, is the opposite of enlightenment.  Inner meaningless and darkness is a byproduct of fear.  It's what's left when the world beats you down until you're numb.




You know, its like people want to emulate the guru, do what he does. A guru sits north so the disciples think if they sit facing north it'll help them become truth realized. Or if he's a nose picker then will they sit facing north and pick their nose 8 times a day? If a man who's starving comes to me and says, how are you well fed and I respond that when I eat a lot I belch so if you belch then you're well fed. See, not only will the starving man not be fed but he'll be belching like a pig, and worst of all he'll stop looking for food so his starvation is assured.

I have no fear. Why believe that inner nothing is scary? Almost everyone if they start to wake up from the dream finds it frightening and goes back to sleep. Its the necessary first step, letting go. Letting go of everything and trying to find truth. Its the very first step, and watch out because its a doozie.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19327164 - 12/25/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My first step was third eye, I didn't do anatta until second step, but I don't know if it really matters.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #19327167 - 12/25/13 10:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

Tmethyl said:
On a recent ego-loss trip, one thing rang very clear and true.
We are a desperate act of emptiness, trying to become something, or discover something about it's self.. At our core, is nothing.



That is essentially true. Unawakened humans think they are an ego, but it is much like an onion. As I peeled my ego away, by the slow death from 1000 cuts, I experienced permanent ego loss after I had peeled away all the layers I was left with nothing. And that is the truth of it, nothing. And when you are nothing and realize permanent non duality consciousness you put the human suit back on, to interact in the puppet show of sight and sound, it is like the sages and prophets say, you are in the world but not of it. Now, all the world and everything around me is like a soap opera, completely trivial and of only moderate entertainment value. It's kind of like being the only adult in a world of children. Or the only awake person in a world of sleepwalkers.




Awesome :thumbup:

What did it for me was a kind of Pyrrhonism in which I looked at every single belief that I had or could possibly have, and try to work out 1) whether it was truly justified or 2) whether I couldn't be completely wrong because of having misperceived things or 3) whether the opposite mirror image of my belief wasn't also perfectly valid. This was a relentless, destructive process that consumed several months of full time work.

In the end I was left with nothing and everything, with no way of objectively distinguishing between the two.

And the old beliefs and desperation reasserted itself time and time again, but the calmer I became the less of an impact it had.

And I haven't changed at all.

For me it's as if a person reaches out for some candy only to get slapped in the face, then reaches out and gets slapped again, ad infinitum. Sooner or later you have to lean back and crack a smile about it. And then just move on with things.

What was hardest was realising that I was in a state of ataraxia so blissful that other people really appeared to suffer in comparison. What should I do? In the end I realised that I had no way to make a judgment about whether their suffering was correct or not, or even whether it was subconsciously willed or attracted and that I shouldn't mess with it.

Now I just listen to the inner voice that tells me what's correct or not. I believe that this is a holographic fragment of the collective consciousness and is never wrong. I believe it's never wrong because with a clear mind I listen to it and do not suffer.

Only the voice is - shy? - or something and won't speak if your mind is full of shit. Fears are shit. To be afraid is to metaphorically and metaphysically invite excrement into your head. When I really overcame fear - which was achieved by an honest appraisal of death and whether it really, truly could be meaningful to fear it - this inner voice became audible.

I say voice but it's really more of a frequency, move towards it and one hears harmony, move away from it and the unconsciousness comes back.

I can say with full honesty that I desire nothing and have no complaints about anything in this reality. However I see the merit in still playing the human game so I don't always let on (unless I know the other person also knows).

Today I walked on a track past a golf course and wept (softly) with joy, just a few cheeky tears. I was not on any drug. I know that this joy will be balanced somehow, someway, and I do not fear that.

And all of this came after a dark night of the soul - it is five years, literally to the hour, since I first took a psychedelic.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineendogenous
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19327219 - 12/25/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Those feelings of meaninglessness are what's real, those are moments of clarity and truth.....I have a lot of time to kill, before time kills me, so I share some of my experience of what enlightenment truely is.




The blind person was brought into the Room of the Light, but saw nothing.

    "When a blind person and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the Light comes, then those who see will see the Light, and those who are blind will remain in darkness.
    "An ass which turns a millstone did a hundred miles walking. When it was loosed, it found that it was still at the same place. There are people who make many journeys, but make no progress towards a destination. When evening came upon them, they saw neither city nor village, neither creation nor nature, power nor angel. In vain have the wretches labored.
-- Gospel of St. Phillip (Gnostic)


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


Edited by endogenous (12/26/13 12:23 AM)


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19327472 - 12/26/13 12:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thisisgonnabegood:

Everyone is (by their own definition) enlightened.
Your truth is not another person's truth, they find their own truth to be true. And goddammit your true isn't true unless it's my true too! :crankey:


I feel like an adult walking among little kids and have felt that way since I was a little kid :lol: And people's interactions seem like soap operas, yet I don't feel enlightened in your sense of enlightenment (it appears so at least).

Now I haven't studied Buddhism much, because it seems like a waste of time as you and I seem to agree that everything is meaningless, but to "embrace the meaningless and darkness"?.. :emo:

That all sounds pretty faqqing gay to me. Embracing anything is meaningless, so why not embrace something more enjoyable to embrace than meaninglessness? Like another human being, or a puppy, or a squid. Whatever floats your boat

Anyways, I'm enlightened, you're not. :gome:
Nah I'm just fucking around. You're enlightened in my view, but I'm also enlightened in my view, but it also doesn't look like I'm enlightened in your view. You just seem to think life is a little more lame than I do, and perhaps it is more lame for you :shrug:

I very much enjoy your poetic writing and parables though :nicesmile:




All of that probably sounded like the various other people attacking the OP in this thread, but I feel as though you might actually get what I'm trying to say :wink:


--------------------
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: endogenous]
    #19327561 - 12/26/13 02:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Firstly, Viktor; beautiful. What you've said is special and few, very few have ever walked down a similar path as yours and pulled from the depths an understanding, a laugh.

Quote:

endogenous said: "An ass which turns a millstone did a hundred miles walking. When it was loosed, it found that it was still at the same place. There are people who make many journeys, but make no progress towards a destination. When evening came upon them, they saw neither city nor village, neither creation nor nature, power nor angel. In vain have the wretches labored.
-- Gospel of St. Phillip (Gnostic)



I'm not sure it could be arranged in a more succinct manner.
I lived this realization, recently. I am thankful for what happened, but as Ellis has pointed out, knowing is not comforting, nor blissful.



Ellis, I want to elaborate on a few things about my most recent, and overwhelmingly intense life-changing trip.
I do not consider tripping fun, I don't do it for fun, to me nothing is more sacred. I have always done it for the journey into what makes an "I". My journeys did often end in frustration, but even amidst the confusion I can remain intensely focused on my goal; knowledge.
(tl;dr)

On this trip I speak of, I drove into the woods alone late at night, and dosed very heavily. I walked a few miles away from my car, so that I could not find the way back; to protect myself. I won't go into all the minor details. The trip started as usual, mild and enjoyable, there were moments where I felt all-powerful and omniscient, I slammed my hands into the soil and grabbed onto tree roots, as if to connect with them, to be one. As this progressed the visual hallucinations began to take a more vivid color and contrast than I had ever experienced, impossible to describe the self-consuming impossibly complex and living hallucinations, they became brighter and more intense until my whole world was engulfed and even with eyes open, I could be nowhere else than in those visuals. I began to lose control of my ego, it was thinking about so many things, people, my mistakes, my loves, my stupidity, my questions. I was trying so hard to convince the "I" that everything was OK, that this is expected. I became fearful, I was not ready for this-- but it was coming. I remember standing up and attempting to talk to the trees in a last resort to bring the "I" some sort of familiarity and comfort. But the "I" was a quivering mess, it was going down, and it didn't like it; it now regretted this, it now desired nothing more than to be in the comfort of the human life it so wanted to run away from, or to understand. It told it's self that it would do anything to be back, it would change it's ways, it would be more loving than it ever has, it promised to no longer question the universe, it was truly sorry. Before this "I" atrophied into nothingness, the visuals became so intensely bright I felt like my mind was being burned out of me. This was my last memory, those final psychedelic flames, brighter than the human eye could ever make sense of; roughly 2 hours into the experience. All that remained was a rhythm.. a nearly audible vibration, a music-- slowly vanishing.

Apparently I lied motionless in the pine needles and damp ground for roughly 8 hours.
But what happened during this time of nothingness is where I bring into this equation, my point.
For what seemed like an eternity I remember a recursive loop. I remember seeing a hand, pine needles, pine trees, stars. I had no idea what a hand was, the thing lying in front of my observation was an alien thing, I didn't know it was my hand, I didn't know it was part of me, I had no me. The pine trees and needles formed an alien landscape of which I could extract no meaning from. I just remember seeing it, then it going away into nothingness, then seeing it again. This is where I now believe I was reinserting myself back into the "I". The loop was me blinking, the intense orgasmic feelings I had during this 'loop' were me pissing myself. These are things that took me until days after the experience to reconstruct.
I slowly became aware of myself again, I realized that this thing I was looking at in the pine needles, was MY hand. I remembered what I was.
I slowly realized that I could move the hand, but 8 hours in the intense cold had left all of my limbs nearly unusable. My mouth was full of chewed up pine needles and dirt, but my mouth was dry as a bone. It took me 10 minutes to finally sit up, I had to relearn how to operate this body again, finger by finger, then hand by hand, and so on. At the point where I could finally lift my head, I remember repeating "what the fuck" very slowly, looking out at the cold night, what seemed like a thousand times before finally realizing that I was on the edge of dying due to cold.
I started to realize that I was cold, what cold even was, and I turned my head to see my blanket and pillow nearly buried in pine needles, about 20ft away from me. I began to crawl towards them, but moving made me extremely sick and I began to vomit, but nothing came out. This happened 4-5times before I began to fade back into nothingness. Torture is a gross understatement. Movement towards the blanket caused me extreme discomfort beyond what I could ever articulate. I laid my head on the cold ground, and I could see the blanket and pillow, and the patterns on them. But I could not get to them. I then felt a comforting feeling; the feeling was me giving up-- it was comfortable to stop trying and just die, the thought of release was pulling me like a warm mothers arms. It's ok, it always was.. it's over.. Justin.

Then I remember going back into that place again, that empty nothing. I died.
But suddenly I awoke, with energy, with conviction, with a goal. I just stood up quickly. I walked right to the blanket and pillow and wrapped them around me, it was easy. I saw my shoes, one was near me, the other was in some mud 20ft away, I walked right over and put them on. No problem. I could hear music.. my headphones and my phone were laying in front of me still playing. I picked them up and stuffed them in my pockets. Then I just laid there trying to get warm, but I began to realize that to become warm you have to have some warm to start with, I had nothing, the blanket was pointless. I looked around.. the night was so cold and bright with the light of a full moon. It seemed so sterile, so quiet, I didn't want to die right there. I thought of my wife and my daughter, and I stood up. I looked around and remembered the direction of the car by judging the position of a large sink hole nearby. With a pace I've never before walked, I rushed towards my car. I actually wasn't that far away, it only took me 10 minutes of extremely cold and painful walking to finally reach it. Once I reached it and got inside I started it and turned the heat on, the switched the vents to aim at my feet because I had completely lost all feeling in them other than some extremely painful stinging. It seemed like an eternity before the heater finally got warm, more intense torture. When it finally got warm I felt the most pleasurable warming feeling crawling up my body, and I instantly fell asleep.
2 hours later I woke up and could barely breathe because the heater had been running full blast for 2 hours. But it felt fucking amazing.
The sun was coming up. I drove home. Everything is different now.

(tl;dr)
Back to my point,
I remember the nothing, the void, the empty, the blank. How is that? If nothing exists in nothingness, is the observer not nothing?
Who/what can observe nothing? The very idea is impossible. The fact that we can talk about this 'nothing' is paradoxical and self-consuming logic.

I think I understand the nothing now.
It's two things. One, It's a safeguard, a way of preventing you from ruining your human game. You are not allowed to see past this nothing, this nothing is as far as you're permitted to go whilst you take human form, whilst you have an "I". The nothing is a door with a big fucking lock on it my friend, you'll get past the nothing only when your game is over, maybe even the 'real' you put this door in place. The nothing isn't telling you to live with apathy, or to see the world as children compared to you, or to feel disdain for the current state of humanity. The nothing is telling you to fucking live! It's saying to go fuck up, to screw up, to be happy, to be sad, to lose control, to find peace, to be hurt, to fix something, to be a part of a change, to make music, to follow your fucking passions, to hate and to love, to find cures and make things better and make some things worse, to cry, to share, to fall and fly, to give and receive, to learn, to exercise, to be compassionate, to never feel shame, to party, to live every moment as if it's your last, to laugh, to push yourself, to be disgusting and to be embarrassed, to accomplish something, to feel elation, make art, to be rewarded and dragged down, it's saying that all emotions have an equal value, that there is no bad or good just levels of understanding, that even pain is a gift, that even death is a blessing, it's telling you to be a fucking human on planet Earth with human problems and human desires-- at least, for a little while!  It's telling you to be on the Shroomery right now reading this as you are. Entertain yourself with this game, it's really funny sometimes, it can be really fun, it's great to love, it feels good to make someone happy, get involved with something. The world is not grey when you've become enlightened, enlightenment is knowing that you know nothing. Immerse yourself in the human game, you can do no wrong. All wounds are self-inflicted; It's just 1.

Two, just as you cannot have light without dark, love without hate, life without death, cold without hot, you cannot have everything without nothing.
You cannot have God, without a nothing. The opposite of creativity is nothingness.
This is necessary.

I think the wisest is one who has determined/concluded nothing, one who took the journey and found a loop-- then laughed.



A strange loop, technically called tangled hierarchy consciousness, arises when, by moving only upwards or downwards through a hierarchical system, one finds oneself back where one started.





God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
-Voltaire


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (12/26/13 02:32 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Tmethyl]
    #19327808 - 12/26/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well I'm really enjoying all the comments here. :thumbup: U all some trippy folk. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix] * 1
    #19328013 - 12/26/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Oh, and NO, you are not enlightened, even in some sort of paradox of language, ever.





Gee, and you know this how?

From the way it looks on my end you have the same dogmatic certainty as the guy claiming to be enlightened, except with less logical justification.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: HalfLight]
    #19328053 - 12/26/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TryinToTrip said:
:thisisgonnabegood:

Everyone is (by their own definition) enlightened.
Your truth is not another person's truth, they find their own truth to be true. And goddammit your true isn't true unless it's my true too! :crankey:



I like your attitude. What makes you think there's many truths? How many Pacific Oceans are there? How many paths to get there?



Quote:

I feel like an adult walking among little kids and have felt that way since I was a little kid :lol: And people's interactions seem like soap operas, yet I don't feel enlightened in your sense of enlightenment (it appears so at least).

Now I haven't studied Buddhism much, because it seems like a waste of time as you and I seem to agree that everything is meaningless, but to "embrace the meaningless and darkness"?.. :emo:



I guess I'll just ask if you know for yourself who you are and what truth is?

And yeah, embracing the darkness, stop resisting it is part of the process. Is that emo? I don't know.

You see, depression is a bit like fear without hope. Everyone can escape depression in ne of two ways. The way most people deal with it when they get those moments of clarity is to double down on hope, that things aren't really the way they seem. The other way is to realize there's nothing to be afraid of. Its like a skydiver rushing toward the ground at 120 miles an hour. Before you hit the ground you can pull the chute and find hope, or not. The moment I was going to hit the ground there's suddenly no Earth there to hit. I'm still hurdling through the void at 120mph but there's nothing to reference it against, nothing to be afraid of.  I am literally the infinate void, and its not scary, its just what I am. But its something I had to face when I wanted to find the truth instead of running back to delusion and away from it.


Quote:

That all sounds pretty faqqing gay to me. Embracing anything is meaningless, so why not embrace something more enjoyable to embrace than meaninglessness? Like another human being, or a puppy, or a squid. Whatever floats your boat




You might be happier that way. If you're having a good dream why do you want to wake up? I wouldn't. I rather stay asleep and enjoy it. And thats fine. Its not like being awake is better than being asleep. Sometimes its more like a sharp stick in the eye.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19328280 - 12/26/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

OK, since you guys are considering anatta as enlightenment, then explain the difference between enlightenment and anatta.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19328287 - 12/26/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Also define enlightenment and what practices definition you are correlating it too. Enlightenment means different things to different people/practices. You're obviously not talking about the buddhist version, or any version I'm familiar with.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix] * 1
    #19328297 - 12/26/13 10:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Judgement is an eye-shutter indeed...


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: deCypher]
    #19328303 - 12/26/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Oh, and NO, you are not enlightened, even in some sort of paradox of language, ever.





Gee, and you know this how?

From the way it looks on my end you have the same dogmatic certainty as the guy claiming to be enlightened, except with less logical justification.  :shrug:




The logical justification is that in anatta, it is seen that there is no self, so what is there to be enlightened?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19328307 - 12/26/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

To claim enlightenment is an extension of the ego, which isn't enlightened...
But I think op understands the game we are playing :thumbup:

So now the question moving forward is, what do you do with this awareness?


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: cez]
    #19328316 - 12/26/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The next step is metta, ime. For those already thinking they are being enlightened, there wouldn't be a next step, because they think they have already arrived at the epitome of practice and achieved enlightenment.

How can anyone tell someone who thinks they know everything anything different when they are thinking they already know everything?



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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: cez]
    #19328330 - 12/26/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Wizard Dee, have you truly known to be God the almighty ruler before? That anything you deem would be truth. I hope you will not contradict yourself in answering. The super ego it is called, if you look away from those who abused the name.

You may see it the void, but when you truly pay attention, there is many a void you might roam. Now you have faced the truth, there is nothing. This is not a means to stop being.. you put something into the void, and the void will change.. to a different void.. you can feel the difference, even though it may never touch your lips.


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19328331 - 12/26/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's this same Ciaran Healey/ruthlesstruth teaching that has closed the door for many people to progress any further, by teaching anatta and claiming it as the end, or ultimate and enlightenment.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19328366 - 12/26/13 11:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Oh, and NO, you are not enlightened, even in some sort of paradox of language, ever.





Gee, and you know this how?

From the way it looks on my end you have the same dogmatic certainty as the guy claiming to be enlightened, except with less logical justification.  :shrug:




The logical justification is that in anatta, it is seen that there is no self, so what is there to be enlightened?




The homo sapiens with the username Ellis Dee?  You're getting mired in linguistic traps here IMO.

Unless you're claiming that no one can be enlightened by definition?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: deCypher]
    #19328401 - 12/26/13 11:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No one can claim to be enlightened by definition of anatta, which precedes enlightenment. Buddha never claimed enlightenment for himself, the closest that he was ever said to have come to claiming it was by saying "I am awake".


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: teknix]
    #19328547 - 12/26/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My idea of enlightenment condensed:
It's a man-made description, in the same way that Christianity is a man-made religion.
'Awakened' is one who's walked that loop, and recognized it was a loop.
A single moment of "Hah.. well fuck".

Ever wonder why gurus carry a perpetual smile?
Why they're not bothered by trivial little problems, or why they can suppress the ego effortlessly?
Because it's funny. It's a big funny.



"He who knows does not speak, he who speaks does not know"

Translated

Don't ruin the joke, asshole.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Edited by Tmethyl (12/26/13 12:26 PM)


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Tmethyl]
    #19328809 - 12/26/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19329565 - 12/26/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
I like your attitude. What makes you think there's many truths? How many Pacific Oceans are there? How many paths to get there?



There is only one Pacific Ocean, and there are seemingly infinite paths to get there, but where are you in the Pacific? Can you control where you are in it? Does it matter where you are?
Perhaps I am on a frigid tide below the Alaskan peninsula, but tomorrow the currents will have brought me between the Hawaiian Islands, and the next day I might sink into the irradiated waters off the East coast of Japan

Quote:

I guess I'll just ask if you know for yourself who you are and what truth is?



I am a not a who, but a what, and what that is is various atoms, molecules, and cells in close proximity interacting in a way which provide each other energy and nutrition in order to maintain a relative composition. Who I am is just the various titles given to me by others and myself.

Quote:

And yeah, embracing the darkness, stop resisting it is part of the process. Is that emo? I don't know.



Perhaps I did not express myself clearly, I was moreso attempting to trivialize the glorification of self-pity.
In your original post you spoke of how enlightenment isn't the desirable state that popular culture makes it out to be, but still claimed to be a perfect being.
Where is perfection and holiness in meaninglessness and darkness?
Is your self-entitled perfection not without meaning?
Is your perception of the holy, the perfect, and the true not shrouded by the destitute darkness which surrounds you?

Quote:

You see, depression is a bit like fear without hope. Everyone can escape depression in ne of two ways. The way most people deal with it when they get those moments of clarity is to double down on hope, that things aren't really the way they seem. The other way is to realize there's nothing to be afraid of. Its like a skydiver rushing toward the ground at 120 miles an hour. Before you hit the ground you can pull the chute and find hope, or not. The moment I was going to hit the ground there's suddenly no Earth there to hit. I'm still hurdling through the void at 120mph but there's nothing to reference it against, nothing to be afraid of.  I am literally the infinate void, and its not scary, its just what I am. But its something I had to face when I wanted to find the truth instead of running back to delusion and away from it.



To me it appears as though you have doubled down on the hope that you have found something more than the average human, but that something for you is nothing.
Now I am going to try and explain how I view your statement of beliefs by making my own statements of beliefs which in some ways coincide with and in some way contradict yours.
You are indeed the void. I am the void. They are the void. Everything is the void.
People create delusions to attempt to escape the void, when these delusions are the void themselves, and the void is a delusion, but also a reality. Do you understand?
You have defined the void. I have defined the void. We give the void meaning to try and give ourselves meaning, as the void is ourselves and everything. However, it has no meaning. It is merely the void. So perhaps we aren't fully enlightened, and definitely no more enlightened than any other human, just as enlightened as we can be without losing sentience or our lives.
So is this the enlightenment that Buddhists desire in death? The acceptance of the lack of meaning? Maybe. And maybe Nirvana is realizing it and finally escaping the ego loop (reincarnation) through death.
Am I afraid? Yes. What am I afraid of? Everything, but more specifically, death. I accept life's meaninglessness, I accept the void, I accept death's meaninglessness. Do I embrace it? No. Embracing reality is just as useless as giving it false meaning (and to embrace something you must give yourself meaning to do so, this meaning will irrevocably be false), but false meaning is more enjoyable.
The enjoyment of delusion is why you and I have claimed enlightenment, the enjoyment of delusion is this philosophical debate, the enjoyment of delusion is believing we have reached something more.
Does fear have meaning? As much as you give it. You seem to think that embracing it took away its meaning by giving you confidence. Your confidence is just a creation of the fear that you flee. The Yin and the Yang, existing to spite each other but ultimately creating each other.
Meaninglessness is not meaningless without meaning, in every sense. You cannot be lacking something that was never there.

Quote:

You might be happier that way. If you're having a good dream why do you want to wake up? I wouldn't. I rather stay asleep and enjoy it. And thats fine. Its not like being awake is better than being asleep. Sometimes its more like a sharp stick in the eye.



Very true.
What is your motive for embracing the void?
It is not a love for truth. The void takes away love and truth. It is nothing.
Why nothing?
I would argue not nothing, you are not embracing the void.
You are attempting to give meaning to the void, an impossible feat.
Thus, your motive for attempting to define your beliefs, or even believing your beliefs, is merely evidence of the never-ending ego loop.
Your ego is attempting to give itself meaning, attempting to define itself as something else, disguise itself as something else. It is the thief disguised as a policemen, so clever that it fools even itself.
You may in fact be the void you speak of, but your actions just resemble ongoing ego masturbation. Constantly pleasuring and regurgitating yourself until you are masked by layers of metaphorical semen, realizing how pointless and disgusting the mess you've created is, and then continuing to masturbate because can't find use for your ego (penis) besides ejaculating and pissing around.


--------------------
dead man walking


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: deCypher]
    #19330709 - 12/26/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Unless you're claiming that no one can be enlightened by definition?



Well, if one takes reality to be non-dualistic by nature--and 'enlightenment' is understood to refer to the state where one transcends duality in order to experience non-duality--than, as i understand it, it does become impossible for an individual 'self' to directly experience the state of enlightenment.

The distinction of 'self' and 'other' is one of the most basic dualistic distinctions, and cannot exist in non-duality--even the concept of 'enlightened' and 'not-enlightened' is a dualistic distinction--in essence, the experience of non-duality does not feature an experiencer, nor does it have an experiencee--the state of non-duality is of pure undifferentiated experience.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: HalfLight]
    #19330732 - 12/26/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Here is an interesting story/koan:


Mumonkan Case 35 : Sen-Jo and Her Soul Are Separated

The Case:
Goso asked a monk, Sen-Jo and her soul were separated, which is the true one?

Mumon's Commentary:
If you are enlightened in the truth of this koan, you will then know that coming out of one husk and getting into another is like a traveler's putting up in hotels. In case you aren't enlightened, don't rush around blindly. When suddenly earth, water, fire and air are decomposed, you will be like a crab falling into boiling water, struggling with its seven arms and eight legs. Don't say then that I have not warned you.

Mumon's Poem:
Ever the same, the moon among the clouds Different from each other, the mountain and the valley. How wonderful! How blessed! Is this one or two? (this translation of the case is taken from Shibayama Roshi's

Zen Comments on the Mumonkan, Harper & Row, NY 1974)

This koan is based on an old Chinese folk story, which Goso is using to make a point about the nature of the true self. To summarize the story: Sen-Jo is a young woman who grew up in a little village along with her childhood sweetheart and the two of them always assumed that when they grew up they would be married.

But when Sen-Jo came of age, her father picked out a different husband for her and told her she couldn't marry her sweetheart. Thereupon her boyfriend left town, because he couldn't bear for her to marry someone else. He got on a boat and sailed down the river. But after he had gone a ways, he suddenly saw someone following him along the bank and pulled over. Miraculously, it was Sen-Jo, who had somehow managed to follow him. She got into his boat and they sailed away to a far off country where they married and had children.

Years passed and Sen-Jo missed her old father whom they had left behind in their home town, who had never seen his grandchildren. And so she said to her husband, I can't just stay here and not know whether he is alive or dead. We must go back and make our peace with him.” So they got in the boat and sailed back to their hometown. And her husband now says to her, You stay in the boat, and I will go meet with your father and explain the situation and then you can come out.

So he goes in and explains how he and Sen-Jo ran off so many years ago and how they are now happily married with children and how she wants to be reunited with him. And old father looks at him as if he is nuts, I don't know what you are talking about, Sen-Jo never left home. The day you left she fell sick, and has been lying in bed there motionless for all these years. The husband says, No, no, she's out in the boat, she is with me right now.

So the father brings him to the bedroom and sure enough Sen-Jo is lying in bed. But then husband goes out to the boat and brings his Sen-Jo back into the house. When Sen-Jo walks into the room where her other self is lying in bed, somehow, miraculously, the part that has been sick all these years gets up, the two of them come together, and they merge and become one person. And (presumably) live happily ever after.

So Goso asks: all those years Sen-Jo and her soul were separated - when she was split in half - which was the real one?

In order to understand this, we need first of all to understand the nature of the separation: the self or soul from the body, of one Sen-Jo from the other. We can all think of ways in which we have stood apart from our selves one way or another. Like Sen-Jo, in a very literal sense, if we try to split off some vital part of who we are, we will fall sick.

Sen-Jo can't live without love, cannot live without marrying her sweetheart, she goes to bed, depressed and immobilized. Often, people come to practice because they have lost touch with something vital in themselves and are trying to bring it back. They rightly see that practice can put them back in touch with their body, their feelings, their connection to others. But unfortunately people can also use practice to rationalize having lost something and being cut off from it. And then they say, this practice will allow me to live without love, (or hope, or physical comfort, or recognition or any personal needs) to be strong enough to do without it.

We imagine that we can exile some aspect of ourselves through practice and still flourish. If we go that route, we end up like a ghost and then call being a ghost being spiritual. But the bottom line is that we've lost something of our true self, our embodiment, and if we use practice to cut ourselves off from some aspect or another of our emotional reality, we have perverted practice and will eventually have to pay the price.

How do we connect this to the question which is the true Sen-Jo... who is the real me? If we cut off some aspect of ourselves, we must try to go and get it back. We can't be our true self if we are only half of ourself. But there is another side to Sen-Jo's story. One part of her is separated from another by a span of many years. You could say that that symbolizes what is actually going on moment after moment. The depressed Sen-Jo, the married Sen-Jo, the one that is united.

You could say that these are all different self-states which succeed one another other. In the folk story, there is a gap of years but for us you may go through them all in 30 seconds... a moment of feeling depressed, feeling bored, elated, perfectly calm, restless. Which one is the real you? That is a question you really have to answer for yourself. Or, you might ask, which moment represents true practice? When you are sitting there all calm without a thought in your head or when the snot is dripping off your nose... wondering when is this going to end? Which one is true practice? We pass through all of these states and inevitably we prefer one to the other. We want one of them to be the real thing and we want the other to be something that we can push into the background and eventually eliminate. We want to pick out one and say this is the real one.

What is our true self? We may want to imagine that it is something deep inside with a nice polish or finish to it. Something nice, calm or compassionate, maybe. If I were asked who I am... how am I going to answer? I'm not going to answer with a description of some precious inner state that's the real me, I'm going to say I'm a psychoanalyst, a teacher, a father. All of these things don't have anything to do with what is inside me - they are all relational, they are all how I am in the world with all sorts of different people.

So who I am isn't something hidden deep inside, who I am is something that is constantly manifesting in all these different shapes and roles depending upon who I'm with, what light I'm in, what function I'm performing. It's always changing. Is it the same you that is doing all of these things? As it says in Mumon's the commentary, going from one state to another is like a traveler putting up at different hotels. The temptation is to think that there is an essential me that is the same but stops in different places. So that I have this experience, then I have this other experience, then I have a third experience¦in each case it is me doing three different things.

This is a misinterpretation of what life and self actually are because there is no one that can stand outside and observe each one of these different experiences. The man who observes it is inseparable from what is being experienced, and the observer is changed in each case by what is being observed and experienced. It is not that I can tell you from the outside what it is like for me to be a teacher because the person who is going to tell you is also the teacher. I can't separate the teacher part out and say what it is like for Barry to teach... Barry and the teacher aren't two different people. And though I go through the day and go through all these different states it is not as if I am having them all, as if some unchanging me is having one experience after another.

Who I am is always subtly changing and being changed by what is happening. This is the part we all half get and half resist. How fluid do we allow ourselves to be, how much do we try to hold on to one constant state, one constant observer, one constant view of ourselves? By holding on to a view of an unchanging self, we may end up saying, I sat really well this morning, but badly this afternoon.

But really who we are is just the experience of having it be one way in the morning and another way in the afternoon. You can't stand outside of that; well we can! -  but we end up like Sen-Jo -split in half. And then one half tries to control the other, one half may even try to assassinate the other if we aren't able to tolerate that all these different states and feeling are who we are. One day, the act of dying, like Mumon's crab hanging over a pot of boiling water, will be who we are.

Where is your true self then? When you look for the true self, where do you look for it? Deep inside? Will you discover it by some action of introspection? where are you going to find it? Right now, it's dripping from your nose.

http://www.ordinarymind.com/html/soul.html


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19330736 - 12/26/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

in other words,


Both Ox and Self Forgotten


Whip, rope, Ox and man alike belong to Emptiness.
So vast and infinite the azure sky
that no concept of any sort can reach it.
Over a blazing fire a snowflake cannot survive.
When this state of mind is realized
comes at last comprehension
of the spirit of the ancient masters.


All delusive feelings have perished and ideas of holiness too have vanished. He lingers not in 'Buddha', and he passes quickly on through 'not Buddha'. Even the thousand eyes can discern in him no specific quality. If hundreds of birds were now to strew flowers about his room, he could not but feel ashamed of himself.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: Tmethyl]
    #19331208 - 12/26/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
I lived this realization, recently. I am thankful for what happened, but as Ellis has pointed out, knowing is not comforting, nor blissful



I was wondering what substance you had ingested?

It sounds like the op somewhat understood the emptiness of what most people call "god" but didn't see beyond that and assumed that was all there was.

Knowing what is beyond the emptiness is actually comforting and blissful.

    "There is the path of Wisdom and the path of ignorance. They are far apart and lead to different ends.
    Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go hither and thither--the blind led by the blind.
    What is beyond earthly life shines not to the childish, or careless, or those deluded by wealth. 'This is the only world--there is no other' they say. And thus they go from death to death.
"
  ---Katha Upanishad


--------------------
The Day of the Lord has come like a thief in the night. -- It is there but no one knows it.


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Re: The dark night of the soul or how I became a fully enlightened krishna consciousness buddha [Re: endogenous]
    #19333655 - 12/27/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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