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OfflineNoxVitae
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peyote spirit on grafting
    #19310094 - 12/22/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just like the title says. I lack the experience with peyote that many on here possess, but I hear a lot about this peyote spirit. So, I was wondering if anyone knows what the spirit feels about grafting peyote onto other cacti. Thoughts and opinions would be great.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: NoxVitae]
    #19312648 - 12/22/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's a spirit?:whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNoxVitae
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: Icelander]
    #19313498 - 12/22/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Or like... a presence or something. I've heard people call peyote "grandfather" and when people describe using the cactus they mention conversing with some sort of being. So I'm wondering if anyone e knows how this being feels about the cactus being grafted


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: NoxVitae]
    #19314456 - 12/23/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NoxVitae said:
Or like... a presence or something. I've heard people call peyote "grandfather" and when people describe using the cactus they mention conversing with some sort of being. So I'm wondering if anyone e knows how this being feels about the cactus being grafted




I don't get it... Mescaline is mescaline is mescaline, do you think grafted peyote would be like a crooked penis and thus inferior?  My guess is it always comes down to the chemical in the plant, and the rest is your mind set and the setting you take it.  So whatever you believe may affect your mind, but only within the limits of your belief system, and not everyone at large, if that makes sense. I'd choose to believe something else personally.


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Edited by CosmicJoke (12/23/13 02:06 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: NoxVitae]
    #19314780 - 12/23/13 05:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NoxVitae said:
Or like... a presence or something. I've heard people call peyote "grandfather" and when people describe using the cactus they mention conversing with some sort of being. So I'm wondering if anyone e knows how this being feels about the cactus being grafted




People also believe in a old guy with a white beard up in the sky on a gold throne and Bigfoot.  That hardly means it's true.  Best to go for the hard evidence dooder.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: NoxVitae]
    #19315703 - 12/23/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have heard from people in the know that grafted peyote tends to be less potent than peyote grown on it's own root. Probably because of the rapid growth that happens with grafting. Less time for alkaloids to accumulate. No personal experience though.

I can't really fathom what the spirit of a plant is or what it's preferences might be.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


Edited by nicechrisman (12/23/13 11:07 AM)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #19315724 - 12/23/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

NoxVitae said:
Or like... a presence or something. I've heard people call peyote "grandfather" and when people describe using the cactus they mention conversing with some sort of being. So I'm wondering if anyone e knows how this being feels about the cactus being grafted




People also believe in a old guy with a white beard up in the sky on a gold throne and Bigfoot.  That hardly means it's true.  Best to go for the hard evidence dooder.




Icelander, please review the forum rules.

3) Mocking others beliefs is not allowed. Making posts or threads that mock in a ridiculing manner will not be tolerated. For skeptic vs believer style debates on spiritual issues, visit the Philosophy, Sociology and Psychology board.

It's true that grafting decreases potency. One's attitude toward the plant is more important than cultivation methods as far as "Mescalito" is concerned.

"The strangest entity I contacted in those twenty-odd months of psychedelic explorations appeared one day after the end of a peyote trip, when I was weeding in the garden and a movement in the adjoining cornfield caught my eye. I looked over that way and saw a man with warty green skin and pointy ears, dancing. The Skeptic watched for nearly a minute, entranced, and then Greenskin faded away, "just a hallucination . . . "

But I could not forget him. Unlike the rapid metaprogramming during a peyote trip, in which you are never sure what is "real" and what is just the metaprogrammer playing games, this experience had all the qualities of waking reality, and differed only in intensity. The entity in the cornfield had been more beautiful, more charismatic, more divine than anything I could consciously imagine when using my literary talents to try to portray a deity. As the mystics of all traditions say so aggravatingly, "Those who have seen, know."

Well, I had seen, but I didn't know. I was more annoyed than enlightened."

Bob Wilson - Cosmic Trigger




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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: Middleman]
    #19316520 - 12/23/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)


Who's beliefs did I mock? :confused:  I gave examples of some of the thousands of other things people believe in and said, "that hardly means it's true".  This is not mocking, this is pointing out something about belief.

PM me if you need clarification.


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OfflineNoxVitae
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: Icelander]
    #19319553 - 12/24/13 02:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well rev. Morton, your post has been the most helpful so far. I never said I personally believed in spirits, just something I have heard frequently in connection with peyote. Ironically, I feel the ethno botanical garden could give me better answers than what I've so far gotten from the religion and spirituality forum.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: NoxVitae]
    #19328519 - 12/26/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am a member of the NAC and can provide some clarity to this. Our belief is that the cactus is a powerful being sort of like an angel that the creator gave a special designation to be a healer and a guide for human beings. Through forming a relationship with this being and taking its flesh into our body we interface with the spiritual intelligence that is the collective total of the experiential matrix humans have been creating with this plant for thousands of years. When used as a medicine it orchestrates the healing of the body and the mind.
Grafting may seem odd or grotesque to some traditionalist peyote eaters but it`s still a medicine and I really believe the spiritual essence remains despite physical change to the plant.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: peyote spirit on grafting [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #19328627 - 12/26/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I guess the answer to "how the spirit feels" is probably always going to be subjective. Assuming that a conscious peyote spirit independent of the human mind did exist though, you'd have to wonder how it would feel about current practices where it's being harvested at a far greater rate than it is being regenerated.

Regarding potency, it's not as simple as just comparing percentage of mescaline and saying ungrafted is better (especially with wet weight.) As a percentage of dry weight there is not much of a discrepancy if I'm remembering right. What really matters though is not the percentage but the total amount of alkaloids. If a graft scion weighs ten times what its ungrafted brother of the same age does, it can easily have a far greater total mass of alkaloids even if that constitutes a smaller fraction of its much larger biomass. A 2" diameter graft may have less total alkaloids than a 2" diameter seed-grown plant, but it takes far far longer to get a plant to that size without grafting.

These plants are all the same age (roughly 1.5 years) and from the same seed batch. The first one is about the largest of my grafted plants at that time (degrafted a short time before the pictures were taken,) and the other two are more typical of the average grafted and ungrafted plants. Keep in mind that the root portion of the ungrafted plant adds to its weight but not to its alkaloid content really. I didn't want to cut it up just to take the picture though.



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