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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: Sell Your Soul]
    #19310140 - 12/22/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Sell Your Soul said:
Doesn't matter how much memory you have - that's irrelevant.
All idle CPU cycles will go to this background program for mining.
If you start up another program, it will take whatever CPU it needs, then whatever's left over will be used by the mining program.

Doesn't matter if you have 1 GB or 100 GB of RAM.




Actually... BTC relies on processor cycles as the limiting factor.  No computer CPU can do squat for hash calculations, so it's pointless to try and mine BTC on a CPU.  BTC can only be practically mined on specialized hardware boxes or higher end graphics cards.  A decent graphics card will do 100x or 1000x what a CPU can do, making it very pointless to mine on a CPU.

LTC, on the other hand, uses memory as the limiting factor.  The whole idea behind this is that memory is a rather fixed price, and everyone usually has access to a roughly similar amount.  In this way, specialized boxes and hardware are not important and you don't end up with groups with specialized hardware having a monopoly on the hashing power like we have with bitcoin.

This is why LTC is a great choice to mine, while BTC would be essentially pointless to mine with this idea.  Other crypto currencies are unlikely to catch on as they will always be too far behind BTC and LTC, and the gap will only keep getting wider.


-FF


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OfflineUltron
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: fastfred]
    #19310178 - 12/22/13 01:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i have a i7 quad core hyper threaded how does this handle physical cores vs virtual


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: Ultron]
    #19310242 - 12/22/13 01:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan9301 said:
i have a i7 quad core hyper threaded how does this handle physical cores vs virtual




You missed the point, it doesn't really matter.

Intel Core i7 950 = 5.88 Mhash/s
vs.
ATI 5870 = 481 Mhash/s

So it's rather pointless to worry about how fast your CPU is going to hash, since the fastest CPUs can barely compete with the slowest GPUs, and certainly can't compete with a decent GPU.

With BTC this will matter, with LTC it probably won't matter much since LTC is memory dependent.

Hyperthreaded cores show up as two CPUs.  This isn't anything the mining software has anything to do with.  The mining software can only choose how many threads to run.  The optimal number will be between 1-2 threads per (virtual or real) core.  The mining software will likely just run one or two threads per core automatically.


-FF


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: fastfred]
    #19310254 - 12/22/13 01:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Quote:

Ythan said:
This program mines scrypt-based currencies, vs. SHA256-based currencies like Bitcoin.




A couple points...

You need to be mining LTC.  All these other copy currencies are not going to catch on.  There's no possible way for them to catch up to BTC and LTC.  And nobody is going to be interested in a bunch of copycat currencies trying to cash in on the BTC wave.

BTC is the e-gold and LTC is the e-silver.  That makes the rest, at best, ranging from bronze to lead.

2nd point, you need to be in one of the major pools, not some oddball one that's unlikely to ever solve many blocks.


Other than that, I think you have a brilliant idea and plenty of other sites are likely to follow.  Facebook "likes" may someday indicate some real and finite resource like donating processor cycles.

The exchanges are like a big ass poker game.


-FF




Acutally FF, people are trading their other coins for bitcoins, and the rate of mining those coins per hour times their worth in bitcoins = profitability. So you only mine .004 bitcoins in an hour, but you can mine another coin that give you 100 coins per hour which will give you a higher value in BTC (Like .009), and exchange it for BTC on the exchanges.


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Offlinedodeski
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: teknix]
    #19310260 - 12/22/13 01:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

FYI, I had to run CCleaner and shut down avast temporarily to uninstall I will be checking my laptop for extra unexpected malware in safemode with Hiren's boot CD and other tools.

Edit: After scans in safemode the only major flaw is a false positive from avast, as far as I can see.


--------------------
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-Timothy Leary

β€œYou are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness.”
― Terence McKenna

"In defying the authority we become the authorities"
- Unknown


Edited by dodeski (12/28/13 01:58 AM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: dodeski]
    #19310276 - 12/22/13 01:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know that both cgminer and bfgminer can show up as false positives.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: dodeski]
    #19310282 - 12/22/13 01:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dodeski said:
FYI, I had to rum CCleaner and shut down avast temporarily to uninstall I will be checking my laptop for extra unexpected malware in safemode with Hiren's boot CD and other tools. TYVM



I have eset....it detected it once and asked me what to do....I told it to ignore the program and that was it.

I can perform a clean uninstall from control panel.

There is no other malware attached to this file....that I am aware of anyways.


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Offlinedodeski
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: teknix]
    #19310294 - 12/22/13 01:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
I know that both cgminer and bfgminer can show up as false positives.




Yah, I had the same problem when trying to mine Litecoin. Avast would delete them as I tried to install. I worked around the problem. I am just always suspicious of what could be buried in someone else's code. Not that I don't trust this place, I tend to error on the side of paranoia.


--------------------
"People use the word "natural" ... What is natural to me are these botanical species which interact directly with the nervous system. What I consider artificial is 4 years at Harvard, and the Bible, and Saint Patrick's cathedral, and the Sunday school teachings."
-Timothy Leary

β€œYou are an explorer, and you represent our species, and the greatest good you can do is to bring back a new idea, because our world is endangered by the absence of good ideas. Our world is in crisis because of the absence of consciousness.”
― Terence McKenna

"In defying the authority we become the authorities"
- Unknown


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: teknix]
    #19310448 - 12/22/13 03:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Acutally FF, people are trading their other coins for bitcoins, and the rate of mining those coins per hour times their worth in bitcoins = profitability. So you only mine .004 bitcoins in an hour, but you can mine another coin that give you 100 coins per hour which will give you a higher value in BTC (Like .009), and exchange it for BTC on the exchanges.




The whole exchange thing is in a lot of flux right now.  People are hoping that these other easier currencies are going to catch on, which I think is a very unlikely bet.

These same people are constantly changing their random currencies to BTC since everyone considers BTC to be the REAL crypto currency with real value.  It should be easy to see that this will quickly drive their value to zero.

Since even the people mining them don't want to hold them they're not going to last long.  Everyone's looking to make a quick buck on speculation, but nobody thinks these lesser currencies have any real value.

There just isn't long term room in the market for a bunch of garbage currencies, or any need for them.

BTC is here to stay because it was the first and the rest can never hope to catch up.  Problems with the coin limit and specialized hardware monopolizing the BTC network leave room for LTC, since it was designed to solve these problems.  There's just no room or need for anything else.  They'll crash to zero when more people understand crypto currency better and the BTC/LTC vs others gap gets ever larger.

We're all familiar with using gold and silver as currency.  Have you ever heard of people using lesser metals?  It just doesn't happen.  BTC and LTC will always be #1 and #2.  Because of the nature of the network there's just no way for late commers to catch up.

So unless there's a major, systemic, unfixable flaw discovered in BTC/LTC... they're here to say and everything else is going to zero in the near future.

There's no point in investing time into mining worthless currencies just because some scammers, and pitch-men have convinced speculators that they might be the next bitcoin.  Right now they have a tiny value because of that, but it's not going to take long for it to become clear that they have no place in the crypto-currency market.

I'm all for this idea of Ythan's.  But only if I think my cycles are being used wisely and will actually benefit the shroomery.

I don't think BTC is worthwhile to mine on CPUs.  I think we need to be part of a large mining cooperative.  And I don't think it's worthwhile to mine lesser currencies, even if they currently have some small value.

I want to see BTC/LTC do well, so that's another reason I'm against fragmenting the market with a plethora of garbage crypto currencies.  Helping their network takes cycles from real currencies that actually have a chance, and thus helps fragment the market which will make the real currencies take longer to attain stability.


-FF


Edited by fastfred (12/22/13 03:29 AM)


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: fastfred] * 1
    #19310724 - 12/22/13 06:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Will mining 24/7 degrade your CPU faster in a real significant way or is it rather insignificant?


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: fastfred] * 1
    #19310909 - 12/22/13 07:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Fastfred, I don't disagree with you. Our mining pool pays out in bitcoin daily, though. It mines whichever scrypt currency has the best exchange rate and automatically converts earnings. We are not going to end up holding a big reserve of dogecoin. :wink: Doing it this way is slightly more profitable that mining LTC directly, and the end result is the same.

GeoMcCheeseburgers, as long as it has adequate cooling, any modern CPU should be just fine running 24/7. Wear and tear will be so slow that the chip will be totally obsolete long before it develops any physical defects. It's mostly things with moving parts that you have to worry about in computers. You may see the fan on your CPU cooler give out a little sooner than it would otherwise, or if you have a cheap power supply, that could eventually die under the load. But that's still not common or anything. It's just the most likely mode of failure, long before anything happens to your CPU.

Personally, I spend a lot of time and money to build my computers, I don't want them to break and I don't want to have to replace parts once they're working. And I'm still not worried about running them maxed out 24/7. My biggest concern is fan noise, power efficiency, and the cost of the electricity. If you'd leave your computer on anyway, the impact of that isn't as great.

Anyway, thanks for continuing to test this, guys! Please keep the questions and comments coming!


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: fastfred]
    #19311134 - 12/22/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Acutally FF, people are trading their other coins for bitcoins, and the rate of mining those coins per hour times their worth in bitcoins = profitability. So you only mine .004 bitcoins in an hour, but you can mine another coin that give you 100 coins per hour which will give you a higher value in BTC (Like .009), and exchange it for BTC on the exchanges.




The whole exchange thing is in a lot of flux right now.  People are hoping that these other easier currencies are going to catch on, which I think is a very unlikely bet.

These same people are constantly changing their random currencies to BTC since everyone considers BTC to be the REAL crypto currency with real value.  It should be easy to see that this will quickly drive their value to zero.

Since even the people mining them don't want to hold them they're not going to last long.  Everyone's looking to make a quick buck on speculation, but nobody thinks these lesser currencies have any real value.

There just isn't long term room in the market for a bunch of garbage currencies, or any need for them.

BTC is here to stay because it was the first and the rest can never hope to catch up.  Problems with the coin limit and specialized hardware monopolizing the BTC network leave room for LTC, since it was designed to solve these problems.  There's just no room or need for anything else.  They'll crash to zero when more people understand crypto currency better and the BTC/LTC vs others gap gets ever larger.

We're all familiar with using gold and silver as currency.  Have you ever heard of people using lesser metals?  It just doesn't happen.  BTC and LTC will always be #1 and #2.  Because of the nature of the network there's just no way for late commers to catch up.

So unless there's a major, systemic, unfixable flaw discovered in BTC/LTC... they're here to say and everything else is going to zero in the near future.

There's no point in investing time into mining worthless currencies just because some scammers, and pitch-men have convinced speculators that they might be the next bitcoin.  Right now they have a tiny value because of that, but it's not going to take long for it to become clear that they have no place in the crypto-currency market.

I'm all for this idea of Ythan's.  But only if I think my cycles are being used wisely and will actually benefit the shroomery.

I don't think BTC is worthwhile to mine on CPUs.  I think we need to be part of a large mining cooperative.  And I don't think it's worthwhile to mine lesser currencies, even if they currently have some small value.

I want to see BTC/LTC do well, so that's another reason I'm against fragmenting the market with a plethora of garbage crypto currencies.  Helping their network takes cycles from real currencies that actually have a chance, and thus helps fragment the market which will make the real currencies take longer to attain stability.


-FF




Ah, I see what you are saying. I think the dilution phenomena you are describing can be evidenced in the market place here:

http://markets.blockchain.info/

Mt. Gox has a higher bitcoin to currency value than the rest of the exchanges 99% of the time because it isn't diluting the bitcoin values by allowing them to be traded for other coins.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: Ythan]
    #19311161 - 12/22/13 09:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This thread inspired me to finally get up and running with cryptocurrency mining. I got everything set up, got wallets set up, joined hashcow, and now I'm mining for the first time ever. It is epic.

I know, I'm not contributing to the shroomery, but this thread inspired me so I thought I'd mention it. Thanks Ythan! :smile2:

Quote:

fastfred said:
Have you ever heard of people using lesser metals?



Copper.


Edited by nooneman (12/22/13 09:39 AM)


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InvisibleThe Phleg
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: Ythan] * 1
    #19311473 - 12/22/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You'd be a fool not to invest in dogecoin.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: The Phleg]
    #19311477 - 12/22/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Much invest. Such profit. Wow.


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InvisibleAsht0n
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: The Phleg]
    #19311488 - 12/22/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

pyrate999 said:
You'd be a fool not to invest in dogecoin.



It's going to the moon that's for sure!


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: Asht0n]
    #19311534 - 12/22/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

To the moon!


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: teknix]
    #19312247 - 12/22/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Ah, I see what you are saying. I think the dilution phenomena you are describing can be evidenced in the market place here:

http://markets.blockchain.info/

Mt. Gox has a higher bitcoin to currency value than the rest of the exchanges 99% of the time because it isn't diluting the bitcoin values by allowing them to be traded for other coins.




I don't think it really has much effect on the price of bitcoin, what I'm saying is that the other currencies will soon go to zero.

It's pretty obvious to me that if people are mining lesser currencies because they're easier to mine and then just constantly dumping them for BTC... that's not a sustainable economy.

Some speculators are keeping the lesser currency market afloat ATM, but I don't think that can continue long.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: fastfred]
    #19312347 - 12/22/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Then why is it that Gox always has higher bitcoin value do you wonder? The main difference that I see between Gox and the others is the amount of currencies being traded. Gox doesn't even trade litecoins, and all the others do . . .

So I'm thinking that the value is being brought down for that reason.

Or is there a better explanation for the consistent higher value at Gox?

If the other currencies aren't diluting bitcoin then I don't understand your argument against mining crap coins and exchanging them for BTC, because they are worth more bitcoin for now, and that would be the most profitable route.


Edited by teknix (12/22/13 03:55 PM)


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Donate your spare CPU cycles to the Shroomery! **Please help beta test!** [Re: teknix]
    #19312816 - 12/22/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Then why is it that Gox always has higher bitcoin value do you wonder?




I'm not really sure on that, and have often wondered why there aren't more people with accounts a multiple exchanges that pimp the differences.

My main idea is that Gox is the largest and most trusted, so it probably attracts the most BTC buyers, thus increasing the demand and making the price higher.

The other exchanges probably have lower prices because they have less buyers, and sellers, and probably have more trouble completing transactions for that reason.  They probably lag behind a bit because it takes time to get orders through them.

Buyers want security and fast, smooth transactions, sellers want the highest prices for their coins.  So Gox is offering the best of both worlds to both buyers and sellers.

I can see why some buyers might want to take a chance and try to get a better price on BTC, but I don't see why any sellers would want to use an exchange that gives them less money for their BTC.  So I think the smaller exchanges have a shortage of BTC.  You'd think that would drive the price UP, but they obviously have to stay below Gox or people will just do their business there.

In short, I don't know.  But those are my speculations.


Quote:

teknix said:If the other currencies aren't diluting bitcoin then I don't understand your argument against mining crap coins and exchanging them for BTC, because they are worth more bitcoin for now, and that would be the most profitable route.




Two reasons.  First I don't think it's a good idea to fractionate the market.  BTC and LTC need to generate more coins and get larger hash rates out of their networks.  This increases the security of the currency and stabilizes the market.  Clear winners also help with market acceptance.  So I don't think it's fair to take cycles away from where they should be in order to help a competitor, since we can probably all agree that BTC/LTC is the future of crypto currency.  It would be very hard for them to lose out to any of the other currencies since they already have such a lead.  That's why I think it's bad for the crypto-economy for people to get behind lesser currencies that are unlikely to make it in the long run.

Second, I don't think there is that much to be gained from mining lesser currencies in order to exchange them.  Any small advantage is likely to be a transient fluke due to market instability and confusion.

Imagine if I mined a bunch of copper in order to buy gold because it was easier to mine.  As I keep dumping copper on the market and buying gold... the copper price will drop and the gold price will rise.  Further, as the copper price will stay low, and indeed keep dropping, people who invested in copper will fail to see the returns they were hoping for and eventually dump their copper to invest in something else.  That will cause the copper market to crash.  All of the time invested in the copper mining setup will be wasted unless it has already paid for it's self compared to directly mining LTC.

I don't know as much about LTC mining pools, but I hope we're going to be part of one of the larger ones.  The larger the pool you're in the better chance your pool will solve the next block in the chain, and the better chance you'll get paid in most systems.

I'll do a little more research, but I really do like this idea of donating cycles.  Everyone can participate that way and the shroomery can potentially make a huge chunk of change.  It might even be the future of how people support sites.


What would be really cool is a browser plugin that is required to access the site, or some of the better features of the site.  The plugin could run whenever you're browsing the site and it would donate cycles the whole time the user is actually using the shroomery.  When the user exits the site the plugin could ask the user to donate their cycles until the next time they visit the shroomery, and it could start the miner program to run in the background.

The users can get transitioned to donating their cycles this way.  At first they donate while browsing, after it causes them no problems they will likely donate between each visit.  Eventually, when they become convinced there is no disadvantage and see their points and bonuses accumulate, they'll start the miner with windows and run it 24/7.

Being that it's winter right now... the extra heat is not wasted, and is actually put to good use heating your home.  Come summer it might be a harder sell as people have to pay for the electricity used by the extra cycles, then they also have to pay a higher AC bill to keep their place cool. 

So hook them in the winter and most won't even think about it when summer rolls around.


-FF


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