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OfflineForresterM
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Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating?
    #19311422 - 12/22/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Trying to grow maitake mycelium on grain to cook, dry, and encapsulate, but running into issues.  When you put it on a sawdust block it grows fast, thick, and bright white, just tons of beautiful mycelium: (color looks off in the pic but it's bright white)



But on grain it's slow, weak, and lame overall.  This jar of brown rice has been sitting for over a month and doesn't thicken up at all.  I mean it still looks like it's mostly just undigested rice (maitake, on left).  Compare to the Cordyceps on the right.

 

Anyone know anything that can be added or done differently to get the maitake to look more like the Cordyceps?  If it can get thick on sawdust it's gotta be possible (it even climbs the walls of the bag!), maybe with an additive of some sort?  Any ideas appreciated.  I don't want to just be eating encapsulated brown rice.
I'm trying the obvious, growing it on a different grain (quinoa and millet) but it's painfully slow there as well, so I've yet to see if it will thicken up. :shrug:


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19311602 - 12/22/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what about adding some sawdust to the grains?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: forrest]
    #19311695 - 12/22/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I could do that if I was doing an extraction and throwing away the marc, but here I'll be powdering the whole product, so I don't wanna be eating a bunch of sawdust! :puke: :lol:


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19311891 - 12/22/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Soak the grains in sawdust tea?


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: liamtheloser]
    #19313319 - 12/22/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'd try another three or four grains grown side by side. Maybe Alohas has something with their choice of sorghum for eating capsule of mycelia. :shrug:


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #19313373 - 12/22/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

pseudotsuga said:
I'd try another three or four grains grown side by side. Maybe Alohas has something with their choice of sorghum for eating capsule of mycelia. :shrug:




Yep, in the process!  Hoping quinoa or millet will work better.  Millet is supposed to be similar enough to milo.  Damn sure ain't taking off quick though, been a week already and almost nothing on the millet, the quinoa looks like it might be colonizing.  Of course it's a lot easier to SEE on the quinoa so maybe there's growth on the millet too :shrug:  It's definitely not LOVING either of them though. 

Might actually try the sawdust tea idea if I can't get these grains to work, might be enough to give it whatever it likes so much.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19313954 - 12/22/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I mean, if that doesn't work out, seriously consider using a little sawdust... After all, the mycelium will digest the sawdust too.  Maybe add sawdust at 2-5%, that may be enough to encourage it to eat everything.  I just made up some jars of rye with 2% sawdust to try to get that sparassis radicata to thicken up the spawn.  It didn't seem to affect the moisture content of the grain too bad, and the jars smell really good too, like when we put in new wood floors.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: liamtheloser]
    #19317860 - 12/23/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, I may have to :shrug:

Wonder if I could just put a layer on top or bottom... if only that part would be thick or it would strengthen the whole thing and then I could separate the wood?


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19397019 - 01/10/14 01:40 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Hey brother Forrester.
You may try to to pulverize the rice into smaller pieces.
Maybe not quite a to a flour stage, but perhaps similar particle sizes to the sawdust substrate it colonizs rapidly.
I know Maitake does prefer oak in the wild, so please do let me know how your experiments go if and when you supplement the rice with sawdust.

Does Maitake mycelium taste like the fruit?

Thanks for all of your posts. I have read some quite useful insights you have posted; particularly on Medicinals. Thanks brother!


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Group]
    #19397944 - 01/10/14 09:09 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Sweet, I'm glad if I've been of help! 
My house is kind of cold, so I got a big styrofoam cooler and put all my incubating medicinals in there.  Without any source of heat (other than their own) they feel warm to the touch and have been growing a lot better. 
I think I'm going to abandon rice for maitake, it's been doing pretty decent lately on both millet and quinoa now that I insulated it.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19398551 - 01/10/14 11:38 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

you could also try some other strain of Grifola, maybe your strain prefers growing on sawdust only?


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: solumvita]
    #19401481 - 01/10/14 10:35 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

solumvita said:
you could also try some other strain of Grifola, maybe your strain prefers growing on sawdust only?




I've been working with two different strains, and both act similar, so I don't think it's strain related.  I mean it could be, but I'm not gonna mess with another strain until I rule out everything else.  Got some higher temps, and working on more GE to see if that helps too.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19604876 - 02/22/14 03:59 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Any update on this? I've got maitake on rye now and I'm not too impressed, fully colonized but still spotty and seemingly doesn't want to keep consuming the grain.  I'm anxious to switch to milo as per Aloha, for all my medicinals...


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19604921 - 02/22/14 04:14 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah rye was a bust, my rye jar sat there for like 2 months and didn't do much of anything so I tossed it.

It's been doing really well on a combination of millet and quinoa (just because I have a lot of quinoa).  Seems to work well on just millet too.  I haven't tried milo yet, haven't run across any but I'd like to.  Can't argue with Aloha's methods that's for sure!

Using an incubator and a bigger GE hole (like 3/8") also seems to have helped.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19605344 - 02/22/14 06:05 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Awesome, def curious of using quinoa, I eat a shit ton of that regularly.  You think it has the same effect of being 90 something % consumable by mycelium like aloha says milo is?  Do you prep it just like rye?


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19606644 - 02/22/14 11:02 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CuriousGeorge83 said:
Awesome, def curious of using quinoa, I eat a shit ton of that regularly.  You think it has the same effect of being 90 something % consumable by mycelium like aloha says milo is?  Do you prep it just like rye?




I would imagine, it seems quite well digested by the time I powder it!

Same as rye?  no, I just drop a little quinoa in a lot of boiling water, turn off the heat and let it steep for 10min.

Strain and let steam NICE and dry and PC as usual :thumbup:


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19607572 - 02/23/14 07:04 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Trying to grow maitake mycelium on grain to cook, dry, and encapsulate




So I've never actually done this yet but am obviously very interested.  I've been making my own double extraction tinctures for years using dried fruit bodies, but want to switch to myceliated grains like this.  Been curious about alohas methods and also curious about anyone else who sells similar mycelial products. 

Do you know if aloha cooks the mycelium before drying like you're saying?  When reading the ingredients on other mycelium pills - they often say freeze dried mycelium grown on some sort of grain..  It's my understanding that without cooking the mycelium your body doesn't readily digest/absorb the beneficial compounds (similar to hot water extracts), right?  Or can you just grow out the mycelium on grain, let it colonize the shit out of it, dry and then powder?


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19607689 - 02/23/14 08:15 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

forrester, so my maitaki on rye also looks spotty. i wanna actually say its bacteria, but there is no "wet spot".  its just many of the grains pressed against the glass are not looking white, like ur first WBR jar, but it is colonizing normally (not stalling).  is that to be expected of maitaki on a less than ideal grain?  its my first jar of maitaki so i wasn't sure what to expect, another jar has been inoculated, but too little growth to tell if its the same "spotty" look.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19607702 - 02/23/14 08:26 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

What are you growing it on?


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19607739 - 02/23/14 08:44 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
so my maitaki on rye also looks spotty. i wanna actually say its bacteria, but there is no "wet spot".  its just many of the grains pressed against the glass are not looking white




Do your jars happen to look like this?:



The top of the grain actually looks awesome but the bottom if the jar looks like this:



I too wonder if I have a little wet spot going on...regardless I'm not growing maitake on rye anymore.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19607828 - 02/23/14 09:26 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

it might be because of temp. swings. when cooling down, the glass in the upper part cools ffaster, thus condensating there. with the stronger temp. swings of the winter i also have that the top part of the jar grows faster/fluffyer.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: forrest]
    #19608030 - 02/23/14 10:43 AM (9 years, 11 months ago)

My jars I have currently aren't even that white
But they don't look wet either


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: nksfo5]
    #19608669 - 02/23/14 02:09 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

yea thats exactly what they look like.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19609367 - 02/23/14 05:44 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CuriousGeorge83 said:
Do you know if aloha cooks the mycelium before drying like you're saying?  When reading the ingredients on other mycelium pills - they often say freeze dried mycelium grown on some sort of grain..  It's my understanding that without cooking the mycelium your body doesn't readily digest/absorb the beneficial compounds (similar to hot water extracts), right?  Or can you just grow out the mycelium on grain, let it colonize the shit out of it, dry and then powder?




I believe they cook/dry it for like 12hrs @ 200f, IIRC.  From my understanding the medicinals in mycelium are pretty easily digestible, it's mainly the fruit bodies that need the cooking to break them down. 

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
forrester, so my maitaki on rye also looks spotty. i wanna actually say its bacteria, but there is no "wet spot".  its just many of the grains pressed against the glass are not looking white, like ur first WBR jar, but it is colonizing normally (not stalling).  is that to be expected of maitaki on a less than ideal grain?  its my first jar of maitaki so i wasn't sure what to expect, another jar has been inoculated, but too little growth to tell if its the same "spotty" look.




If yours looks like the jar pictured, it appears normal to me, although I'm not much of an expert on maitake as I still haven't successfully fruited it. 

I didn't mean to imply that rye or WBS are not optimal grains for growing maitake, they should work fine if using as spawn.  Just not the best for making powdered mycelium it would seem.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19609381 - 02/23/14 05:47 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

"I believe they cook/dry it for like 12hrs @ 200f, IIRC.  From my understanding the medicinals in mycelium are pretty easily digestible, it's mainly the fruit bodies that need the cooking to break them down."

AAhhh i see, i see.. dehydrated using heat, gotcha.  So now do you know anything about "freeze drying?"


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19609397 - 02/23/14 05:52 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

CuriousGeorge83 said:
AAhhh i see, i see.. dehydrated using heat, gotcha.  So now do you know anything about "freeze drying?"




I sure don't!  Seems like a good way to do it but I imagine you need some serious equipment :shrug:


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19609411 - 02/23/14 05:56 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
I believe they cook/dry it for like 12hrs @ 200f, IIRC.  From my understanding the medicinals in mycelium are pretty easily digestible, it's mainly the fruit bodies that need the cooking to break them down. 




All mycelia possess chitin in their cell walls which humans can't really break down well, so it all need to be processed.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #19609462 - 02/23/14 06:12 PM (9 years, 11 months ago)

by processed you mean cooked? or any kind of processing.... as in just drying and powdering could be considered processing.. just sayin


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19611693 - 02/24/14 10:33 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CuriousGeorge83 said:
by processed you mean cooked? or any kind of processing.... as in just drying and powdering could be considered processing.. just sayin




Yeah cooking is probably the easiest method for most folks. Any process which will break down the cell walls will suffice though.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #19611740 - 02/24/14 10:48 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

pseudotsuga said:
All mycelia possess chitin in their cell walls which humans can't really break down well, so it all need to be processed.




That's not entirely true.  Mycelium is only something like 17% chitin and if ground well is perfectly digestible.  Ask Amanita Virosa about this one, we've had this discussion several times :wink:

I can also find the book I read it in... Ah, here it was this one.

This topic is frequently debated and I used to think what you do, but after more and more reading I'm learning otherwise...


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Edited by Forrester (02/24/14 10:54 AM)


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19611755 - 02/24/14 10:53 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Nice, Chaga, really the king of medicinals??  I always considered Reishi to be...i suppose he calls it the queen of medicinals, interesting.  :shrug:


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19611781 - 02/24/14 11:01 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

CuriousGeorge83 said:
Nice, Chaga, really the king of medicinals??  I always considered Reishi to be...i suppose he calls it the queen of medicinals, interesting.  :shrug:




I always thought so too.  I got that Chaga book thinking I'd already know everything in it but he actually has some amazing info in there and I learned quite a few things.  Chaga really is great stuff!


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19611867 - 02/24/14 11:34 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

pseudotsuga said:
All mycelia possess chitin in their cell walls which humans can't really break down well, so it all need to be processed.




That's not entirely true.  Mycelium is only something like 17% chitin and if ground well is perfectly digestible.  Ask Amanita Virosa about this one, we've had this discussion several times :wink:





Yeah grinding works well cause it breaks down the cell walls. Of course the cell wall doesn't make up the entirety of cells, as glucans bind the chitin as well as mannoproteins. Either way if you eat raw mushrooms or mycelia you still would get way less nutritional benefits than from either finely ground mushrooms, or cooked, or freeze dried. There are a myriad of ways to break down cell walls.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #19614607 - 02/24/14 10:49 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

pseudotsuga said:
Yeah grinding works well cause it breaks down the cell walls. Of course the cell wall doesn't make up the entirety of cells, as glucans bind the chitin as well as mannoproteins. Either way if you eat raw mushrooms or mycelia you still would get way less nutritional benefits than from either finely ground mushrooms, or cooked, or freeze dried. There are a myriad of ways to break down cell walls.




Very true!  I figure the drying process itself (most use some heat anyway) combined with grinding to a fine powder is good enough for mycelium. 
With fruit bodies, esp. tougher ones like Ganoderma, I always make sure and use a lot of heat as well (ie a long boil).


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OfflineCuriousGeorge83
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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: Forrester]
    #19615805 - 02/25/14 09:35 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

So I finally got a hold of some organic milo!  Gonna put some reishi on it soon - as well as maitake and maybe enoki.  Have you done lions mane on grains for encapsulating?  I'm curious how that'd work what with it always fruits before full colonization.

How much does a quart jar of spawn end up weighing after it's all dried and ground up?


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: CuriousGeorge83]
    #19616156 - 02/25/14 11:33 AM (9 years, 10 months ago)

I'm planning to just open the jar and harvest the fruits that will have grown on top of the grain multiple times.


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Re: Anyone grow maitake myc for encapsulating? [Re: forrest]
    #19618971 - 02/25/14 10:31 PM (9 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

forrest said:
I'm planning to just open the jar and harvest the fruits that will have grown on top of the grain multiple times.




Sounds like the best way, it's always good to have a mix of mycelium and fruit bodies anyway so you get the best of both worlds there.  Let me know if it ends up digesting the grains much, it doesn't seem like it would.

Quote:

CuriousGeorge83 said:
Have you done lions mane on grains for encapsulating?  I'm curious how that'd work what with it always fruits before full colonization.

How much does a quart jar of spawn end up weighing after it's all dried and ground up?




I haven't done lion's mane yet, but the fruits won't be a problem just include them in the mix.  My worry is whether or not it will digest the grain, with how thin and weak it is.  Maybe someone else has tried it!

I've never weighed my harvest, but the CS4 one I just did I got about 3/4 pint of ground mycelium powder from (2) 3/4 full quart jars of quinoa/millet.  I might be able to weigh it later if I remember...


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-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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