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OfflineNakor420
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Lets talk mycorestoration...
    #19306998 - 12/21/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hey folks... As some of you may know, I was recently accepted to MCLA for their environmental studies program. I will be receiving my bachelors in ES then transferring with the goal of receiving a PhD in Mycology...My plan is to start a student mycology club at this school and build a small army of mycophiles to help me myco-filter the highly contaminated watersheds in this area. We have a big problem around here with E Coli. I plan to use the king stropharia to do this. I am basically starting this thread to begin an ongoing discussion on myco-restoration. I am most interested in peoples thoughts on the remediation of the fukushima disaster. Gomphidius Glutinosis has been shown to hyper-accumulate radioactive cesium to 10,000 times background lvl's. This will be useful in the forests of Japan but how can we bring this amazing species to the front of the battle for the pacific ocean? Myco-booms on the pacific convergence zone? This is a pressing issue that I believe only mycologists can solve...lets put our heads together guys. :smile:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19308241 - 12/21/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I like the term bio-restoration much better.  This way you include all the various organisms together along with fungi.  I didn't have much luck filtering e-coli out of runoff water with mushroom substrates because they can't keep up with the flow.  Most fecal contaminants are right on the surface, so you don't need to filter anything but the top 1mm or so.  Skimming the surface to remove or filter the bacteria seems like a better plan.  It could even be diverted to ponds and aerated.
RR


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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19308261 - 12/21/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

RR.. what species of fungi did you attempt your filtration of E Coli with? Stamets has had great success using the garden giant.. I'm sure you've read mycelium running and seen some of his lectures on the subject.


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19308340 - 12/21/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The issue with G. glutinosis is that its mycorrhizal, so you'd have to plant a forest of fir/spruce over the affected area to soak up the contamination, and then regularly collect the contaminated fruit bodies.  Still doable. 

There is an infamous radiated site here in Colorado front range, the former Rocky Flats nuclear plant.  They've essentially fenced off the area and buried the radiation.  The above scenario would work well there, I think.  I offer that up because the myco-boom idea would not work, unless you had floating islands of fir/spruce forest, and were regularly collecting and containing the fruits...


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: BoulderMushrooms]
    #19308353 - 12/21/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Love the idea of a student myco-club though. I wish you lots of luck and hard work at that!

This year I tossed, some of my old oyster bags into the ditch that feeds our organic farm (our ditch water can be contaminated with petro-chems, bacteria, and pesticides/fertilizers, etc).  The mushrooms fruited well, so I suspect the mycelium was doing its thing at least a bit (it was only one bag at a time).  It was literally just a block of oyster spawn on straw in the creek, no burlap bag or anything. 

Stamets experiment showed stunning results with the bacteria remediation.  Roger Rabbit, how many bags of mycelium did you place in the flow of the water?  The experiments I am thinking of, there were either a swale that was fully inoculated with mycelium (this would cover the first few mm of depth on the flowing water) or multiple bags place on alternate sides of a small creek, so that the water was constantly being churned and run past fresh mycelium.  I recall great results from that one. 

~


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: BoulderMushrooms]
    #19308359 - 12/21/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I like the pond diversion/aeration aspect though, complemented with some myco-bio-remedation. 

~


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420] * 1
    #19308406 - 12/21/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: The Lightning]
    #19308702 - 12/21/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the support on my myco-club. If anything I'll teach all the youngsters on campus how to grow their own magic. :wink: As far as the myco-boom thing in the pacific... I see your point....we need to find a saprophytic species that has similar hyper-accumulation ability...


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19309818 - 12/21/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Right, as of yet I have not heard of a saprophyte accumulating radiation.  Plus, do we even know what the radiation coming out of Fukushima is?  I know G. glutinosis uptakes Cesium, but there is lots of types of radiation out there....

They are doing the myco-boom technology I think in New York with pink oyster - more for its showiness than anything though.  A useful venture would be finding out local, bioregional funding sources for testing water and soil pre and post mycoremediation techniques.  Kickstarter campaigns would likely be a great way to fund this stuff from the grass roots.  Or Indigogo, or some other crowd-funding sites. 

I'm sure there is a saprophyte that works with radiation. I've heard of melanocyte producing species that absorb radiation as fuel, especially around Chernobyl...


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19309822 - 12/21/13 10:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Careful with the youngsters and teaching them to grow boomers:)  Felony conviction prevents, even post dating the college years, the procurement or continued sustaining of federal loans.  No bueno~


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: BoulderMushrooms]
    #19310649 - 12/22/13 05:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

OH I was joking about teaching the ways of the psychedelic force to youngsters,lol. My myco-club in college will focus on pf tek with oysters, if they want to use the knowledge for other species of fungi,that's their decision. G. Glutinosis accumulates cesium which is the most abundant isotope from fukushima if I recall...obviously it wouldn't remediate 100% of the isotopes but it's a good start...As far as the melanin producing species found around Chernobyl...those use the radiation (light) much like plants use sunlight for photosynthesis. It seems you have to have radiation present for them to grow, and I don't think they up-take isotopes like G. glutinosis. Honestly I think the slime molds found on the walls of the Chernobyl reactor are quite novel and the idea of a sustainable food source in space is a good one, but for remediation, I don't think they present any possibilities...


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Edited by Nakor420 (12/22/13 05:53 AM)


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19311252 - 12/22/13 10:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ah interesting, I am not familiar with the difference between isotopes that glutinosis accumulates, and I suppose 'pure' radiation you are referring to that these slime molds and such are absorbing from Chernobyl. 

Hah, gotcha about the youngsters:) The PF tek is interesting - will you grow in larger jars than 1/2 pint?  I use bulk pasteurization in my business to grow Oysters, its a great way to produce enough spawn for remediation.  Will you integrate larger scale production for any remediation experiments in your myco-club?

~


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Offlineshroombie
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: BoulderMushrooms]
    #19311717 - 12/22/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wow today's my lucky day. Love this idea, I don't have the background or science down like you guys do but I'll contribute what I got.

Reading lightning's links I noticed some talk about EM (efficient microorganisms, some hoop-la trademarked microorganism blend for farmers that allows them to farm within the fukishima area) i dont read japanese so i wish i could learn more but it sounds promising. I think what needs to be developed is a "kit" sort of like the EM blend. Combine different micros with one or two radiation hungry species of mushroom, put it in spawn bags and distribute along the coast...

Somewhere in there it questioned the possibility of the reduction in radioactivity being from synergistic action between microorganisms in the, lovingly trademarked, EM blend.

You know with all the awareness of fukishima something like this might be locally implemented by farmers along the western coast of the US, if the infrastructure to get cultures around were to exist.

One last thing, there was a girl on TEDtalks with the infinity mushroom suit, it was decomposing bodies and breaking down heavy metals that we humans tend to accumulate. Maybe not fukishima specific but connected to mycorestoration.

http://infinityburialproject.com/mushroom


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: BoulderMushrooms]
    #19311767 - 12/22/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BoulderMushrooms said:
Ah interesting, I am not familiar with the difference between isotopes that glutinosis accumulates, and I suppose 'pure' radiation you are referring to that these slime molds and such are absorbing from Chernobyl. 

Hah, gotcha about the youngsters:) The PF tek is interesting - will you grow in larger jars than 1/2 pint?  I use bulk pasteurization in my business to grow Oysters, its a great way to produce enough spawn for remediation.  Will you integrate larger scale production for any remediation experiments in your myco-club?

~



Yes...I plan to use the pf tek with half pints to teach the basic life cycle of the fungi, but my ultimate goal is to get a bunch of students helping me with myco-restoration experiments and projects..


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: shroombie]
    #19311797 - 12/22/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shroombie said:
Wow today's my lucky day. Love this idea, I don't have the background or science down like you guys do but I'll contribute what I got.

Reading lightning's links I noticed some talk about EM (efficient microorganisms, some hoop-la trademarked microorganism blend for farmers that allows them to farm within the fukishima area) i dont read japanese so i wish i could learn more but it sounds promising. I think what needs to be developed is a "kit" sort of like the EM blend. Combine different micros with one or two radiation hungry species of mushroom, put it in spawn bags and distribute along the coast...

Somewhere in there it questioned the possibility of the reduction in radioactivity being from synergistic action between microorganisms in the, lovingly trademarked, EM blend.

You know with all the awareness of fukishima something like this might be locally implemented by farmers along the western coast of the US, if the infrastructure to get cultures around were to exist.

One last thing, there was a girl on TEDtalks with the infinity mushroom suit, it was decomposing bodies and breaking down heavy metals that we humans tend to accumulate. Maybe not fukishima specific but connected to mycorestoration.

http://infinityburialproject.com/mushroom




Oh yeah... I'll have one of those suits on my own corpse one day....fuck the coffin...put my myco-suit on me and toss me in a dirt hole...anyway...as far as the west coast goes...they are all very lucky to have Paul Stamets living out that way...cause he'll save his own land and in the process disseminate the tech up and down the coast I am sure...


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19311819 - 12/22/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That body suit is interesting.  I hesitate about it.  The heavy metal thing... its not really doing anything with it except potentially sequestering it in the mycelium, which sure, thats a good benefit.  But bacteria are known to do the same thing, and burial in a good hot compost pile would have the same or better effect, as I think the bacteria actually kelate the heavy metal, which takes it totally out of commission.  (this is my understanding, not the facts:)

I hesitate, because lets say this body burial suit technology gets going - after a few thousand years (say our race survives that long;), we've trained a host of specific fungi to digest human flesh.  Not too far away from creating the next human-centric cordyceps, ya know?  I prefer the pine box buried under an apple tree sapling:)


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19311836 - 12/22/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The Chernobyl fungi wouldn't stop radiation at all...think of it like this.... If you are standing next to a tree on a sunny day, but not in the shade...that tree is deriving nutrients from the sunlight and thriving on it...but in no way is it preventing YOU from being effected by UV radiation or lessening the amount of ambient sunlight. It's the same concept. That fungi is using the light to produce nutrients to live...but it doesn't address the SOURCE of the radiation..Radiation is light...isotopes are heavy metal particles that emit radiation...


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OfflineNakor420
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: BoulderMushrooms]
    #19311852 - 12/22/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BoulderMushrooms said:
That body suit is interesting.  I hesitate about it.  The heavy metal thing... its not really doing anything with it except potentially sequestering it in the mycelium, which sure, thats a good benefit.  But bacteria are known to do the same thing, and burial in a good hot compost pile would have the same or better effect, as I think the bacteria actually kelate the heavy metal, which takes it totally out of commission.  (this is my understanding, not the facts:)

I hesitate, because lets say this body burial suit technology gets going - after a few thousand years (say our race survives that long;), we've trained a host of specific fungi to digest human flesh.  Not too far away from creating the next human-centric cordyceps, ya know?  I prefer the pine box buried under an apple tree sapling:)




After it consumes the human flesh, then sporelates...what are the spores going to germinate on? There would be know way for the fungi to survive once the corpse was gone.. and as far as hyper-accumulation of isotopes goes...it's the fruits that contain most of the isotopes so you simply harvest them and sequester them some place...or burn them and collect the isotopes for enrichment...


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: Nakor420]
    #19311862 - 12/22/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It will be helpful, I think, to view the "formal" definitions of the two words mentioned above (radiation, isotopes).

Radiation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation

Isotopes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isotope

Also, here's a definition of "radioactive decay" (i.e. nuclear decay or radioactivity):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_radiation

And "sunlight radiation" for a starting point perhaps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_radiation

We need to go over these terms repeatedly, with certainty, to help the discussion take hold.


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OfflineBoulderMushrooms
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Re: Lets talk mycorestoration... [Re: The Lightning]
    #19312152 - 12/22/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

RIght, that makes sense with the radiation vs the isotope that is producing the radiation.  Now were on board! Thanks Lightning~

Regarding the radiation, I've wondered about creating specialized domes around radioactive emitting sites - ie, Fukushima, and spray inoculating the inside with these fungi that absorb the radiation. Might have had this concept implanted by stamets...  But this does not contain the radiation that spills out into the ocean and such...

The issue with the body-decomposing fungi sporulating is not an issue now, in our culture, but in other places where they have to let the body decompose, and then exhume and condense the remains into a smaller container for final burial is common amongst cultures where land is less available.  Columbia is a great example of where this practice occurs, I think they do this in Europe in some places as well.  This would offer a perfect time for transmission. As land gets more and more tight due to population growth this will be more of a practice I imagine....  Of course there is no issue if you bury the body and never exhume it - no possibility for transmission. 

This example I put forth is more of a theoretical example.  I think it is a potential danger of this 'human cordyceps' happening in the future if all the conditions are there - more and more efficient colonization of corpses from specialized species, the possibility of exhuming and transmitting them into the 'humo-sphere'. This happens to a degree now in the archeology field, where they have something called 'tomb fever.'  Old buried human remains put off a pernicious fungi that lodges in the human lung - either kills us or makes us sick for a very long time.   

~


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