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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
We are facing death in Iraq for no reason
    #1931005 - 09/19/03 01:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

A serving US soldier calls for the end of an occupation based on lies

..."I once believed that I was serving for a cause - "to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States". Now I no longer believe that; I have lost my conviction, as well as my determination. I can no longer justify my service on the basis of what I believe to be half-truths and bold lies.

With age comes wisdom, and at 36 years old I am no longer so blindly led as to believe without question. From my arrival last November at Fort Campbell, in Kentucky, talk of deployment was heard, and as that talk turned to actual preparation, my heart sank and my doubts grew. My doubts have never faded; instead, it has been my resolve and my commitment that have.

My time here is almost done, as well as that of many others with whom I have served. We have all faced death in Iraq without reason and without justification. How many more must die? How many more tears must be shed before Americans awake and demand the return of the men and women whose job it is to protect them, rather than their leader's interest? "



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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1931098 - 09/19/03 01:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Thank god for the real voice of america. There's hope yet.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Registered: 04/17/03
Posts: 1,047
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: Xlea321]
    #1931724 - 09/19/03 09:01 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yet he'll be the first to criticise the government when Amercia itself and its civilians are hurt as a result of an attack....


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1931727 - 09/19/03 09:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yep. "The real voice of America", huh Alex?


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 859
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1931782 - 09/19/03 09:53 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

st0nedphucker said:
Yet he'll be the first to criticise the government when Amercia itself and its civilians are hurt as a result of an attack....




Would you care to elucidate what the war on Iraq has to do with attacks on America and its civilians?

Do you mean to imply that occupying Iraq has LESSENED the chance that such an atttack will occur? If so, how would you substantiate that claim?

If anything, the war in Iraq has diverted attention and resources AWAY from the task of defending the homeland and combating global terror networks.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1931804 - 09/19/03 10:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Would you care to elucidate what the war on Iraq has to do with attacks on America and its civilians?





I think you've answered your own question my friend



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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1931941 - 09/19/03 11:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

st0nedphucker said:
Quote:

Would you care to elucidate what the war on Iraq has to do with attacks on America and its civilians?





I think you've answered your own question my friend






I think you don't have an answer my friend.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1931949 - 09/19/03 11:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Pre-emptive action


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1931952 - 09/19/03 11:30 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

st0nedphucker said:
Pre-emptive action




Pre-empting whom?

The invasion certainly hasn't "pre-empted" the guerrillas who are attacking American soldiers on a daily basis. Why would it pre-empt a transnational terrorist network that doesn't even have a country to invade?

I would appreciate if you stopped playing Sphinx for a second and started giving substansive answers.


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1931956 - 09/19/03 11:32 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I was referring to the invasion...You seem to have gone off on a tangent


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1931962 - 09/19/03 11:35 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

An what exactly did the invasion pre-empt?

Saddam launching his massive arsenal of nuclear ICBMs at the United States?

Just want to confirm: I'm on the planet Earth in the year 2003. Where are you?


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1931966 - 09/19/03 11:36 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

LMAO, the invasion was pre-emtpive action... You seem to be having great difficulty understanding that...


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1931977 - 09/19/03 11:41 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You seem to be having great difficulty understanding the meaning of the word "pre-emptive." Here's a little help from Webster's Collegiate, 11th Edition:

Main Entry: pre empt
Function:verb
Etymology:back-formation from preemption
Date:1850

transitive verb
1 : to acquire (as land) by preemption
2 : to seize upon to the exclusion of others : take for oneself *the movement was then preempted by a lunatic fringe*
3 : to replace with something considered to be of greater value or priority : take precedence over *the program did not appear, having been preempted by a baseball game ? Robert MacNeil*
4 : to gain a commanding or preeminent place in
5 : to prevent from happening or taking place : FORESTALL, PRECLUDE
intransitive verb : to make a preemptive bid in bridge.

In a military context, a pre-emptive strike or invasion refers to meaning number 4: to forestall or preclude.

Now, can you pull yourself together just long enough to tell me exactly what the invasion was meant to forestall or preclude?


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1931981 - 09/19/03 11:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

The U.S. took pre-emptive action to secure the oil in Iraq before sanctions were lifted.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineEchoVortex
(hard) member
Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: Autonomous]
    #1931982 - 09/19/03 11:44 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Autonomous said:
The U.S. took pre-emptive action to secure the oil in Iraq before sanctions were lifted. 




Keep saying stuff like that and the neo-cons won't like you anymore.
:nut:


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Offlinest0nedphucker
Rogue State
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Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: EchoVortex]
    #1931987 - 09/19/03 11:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

4 : to gain a commanding or preeminent place in
5 : to prevent from happening or taking place : FORESTALL, PRECLUDE
intransitive verb : to make a preemptive bid in bridge.

In a military context, a pre-emptive strike or invasion refers to meaning number 4: to forestall or preclude.




It refers to number 5 I believe :blush:.. as to what it was intended to prevent... an attack from Saddam...


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1931991 - 09/19/03 11:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Did Saddam have ICBMs?


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: Autonomous]
    #1931992 - 09/19/03 11:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

LOL, yeah along with his moon beam of course


--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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Anonymous

Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: Autonomous]
    #1931999 - 09/19/03 11:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

no dude he was going to sell his wmd to terrrorists so they could use them against us!

duh.

funny how we havent found any, guess he sold them all before the war!


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OfflineEchoVortex
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: We are facing death in Iraq for no reason [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1932005 - 09/19/03 12:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Oops, my bad. It is number 5.

And what evidence exists that Saddam was planning to attack the United States?

Did he have weapons of mass destruction? People have their opinions on this point, but it is clear that there is certainly no EVIDENCE that he did.

Did he have weapons delivery systems capable of reaching the United States? Not only did he not, but even the Bush administration never claimed that he did.

Did he give weapons of mass destruction to terrorists? Kind of difficult to do when you don't have them and don't have the means of producing them. No evidence exists to support this claim, either.

Did Saddam make any public declarations that he would attack the United States? Did the state of Iraq declare war on the United States? No.

Now, there is no evidence whatsoever that Saddam was capable of attacking the United States or even had plans to. If you can launch a "pre-emptive" strike against a nation that has neither the will nor the means to attack you, you can more or less attack just about anybody.

But back to your original point:

If an attack against the United States occurs, that solider and everybody else will have plenty of reason to blame the Bush administration. The war on Iraq has nothing to do with the major threat to the homeland of the United States: namely, the transnational al-Qaeda terrorist network. Spending $300 billion on fighting al-Qaeda would have done infinitely more to protect the safety of Americans than waging a war on Iraq.


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