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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19378865 - 01/06/14 07:19 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Your math at the beginning showed me i don't need to take the rest of your post seriously.

Quote:

Any business that is paying people $7 an hour, let's say two people. Let's say this business pays each of two people $7 an hour and also $1 an hour for lease plus $1 an hour in general cost of production plus $1 an hour miscellaneous. So hiring two employees plus an extra $3 an hour would add up to $10 an hour.

So let's say this business made JUST ENOUGH to break even. That's means each year they would have to make 17x8x5x4x12, which comes out to:

$32,640




Two employees = $26,880 a year in payroll (realistically much higher due to associated costs of having employees)

$1 an hour for lease? Are you fucking kidding me? Using a 40 hour work week that comes out to $160 a month, good luck finding commercial space for that price :lol: even if you run it 24 hours a day it comes out to 760 a month, which is just slightly less asinine.

$1 an hour for production is both a gross overgeneralization AND completely unrealistic (and you attempt to lecture me on what the "real world" is :rolleyes:)

Your obviously lack of any real knowledge on associated costs with running a business is painfully obvious. So before you determine what a business owner should and shouldn't be capable of why don't you gain some more experience.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: qman]
    #19378876 - 01/06/14 07:20 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
a vast majority of small business's operate at extremely small margins as it is. They cannot afford to lower their margins any more. All you think about when you talk about min. wage increases are large corporations. And i agree they would be able to absorb the costs easily, which is why WalMart suppers a minimum wage hike, they know that they can absorb the cost and go about business as usual, however mom and pop shops cannot, thus putting their competition out of business.




Even with minimum wage at a all-time low in real terms, it would most likely hurt some small business owners if they hiked it, but what does that tell us?   

It says that the general economy is weak, when there is decent economic prosperity taking place, hiking the minimum wage 10% makes little difference, but if there is no real growth taking place, yes I agree it can make a difference.



the economy is improved by more people working and production taking place. Hiking the minimum wage discourages both.


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Offlineqman
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19379059 - 01/06/14 07:55 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
a vast majority of small business's operate at extremely small margins as it is. They cannot afford to lower their margins any more. All you think about when you talk about min. wage increases are large corporations. And i agree they would be able to absorb the costs easily, which is why WalMart suppers a minimum wage hike, they know that they can absorb the cost and go about business as usual, however mom and pop shops cannot, thus putting their competition out of business.




Even with minimum wage at a all-time low in real terms, it would most likely hurt some small business owners if they hiked it, but what does that tell us?   

It says that the general economy is weak, when there is decent economic prosperity taking place, hiking the minimum wage 10% makes little difference, but if there is no real growth taking place, yes I agree it can make a difference.



the economy is improved by more people working and production taking place. Hiking the minimum wage discourages both.




If you are suggesting that eliminating the minimum wage would drastically improve the current economic environment, I would disagree. 

When a economy has been structurally damaged like the US has the last 20 years, things like the minimum wage are pretty meaningless at the end of the day.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: qman]
    #19379201 - 01/06/14 08:18 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

At this point i would just see the federal minimum wage disappear completely. If states/cities wanted to create one for their specific region that'd be fine. However to norm the cost of living across the country is ridiculous in my opinion.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19380081 - 01/06/14 11:09 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Your math at the beginning showed me i don't need to take the rest of your post seriously.

Quote:

Any business that is paying people $7 an hour, let's say two people. Let's say this business pays each of two people $7 an hour and also $1 an hour for lease plus $1 an hour in general cost of production plus $1 an hour miscellaneous. So hiring two employees plus an extra $3 an hour would add up to $10 an hour.

So let's say this business made JUST ENOUGH to break even. That's means each year they would have to make 17x8x5x4x12, which comes out to:

$32,640






Your obviously lack of any real knowledge on associated costs with running a business is painfully obvious. So before you determine what a business owner should and shouldn't be capable of why don't you gain some more experience.





You completely missed the point. But that's alright this is probably the most informed post you've made out of all the asinine horse shit you've repeated over and over again about how much business experience everyone lacks that apparently you have etc. Basically you made my point even stronger. Lease is much more then $1 an hour so therefore it'd make even less of a difference to the over head raising the minimum wage $1 an hour for each employee. But that's for magnifying my point by correcting me.


Amazing how much your "business experience" has taught you. What did you say you do again? Graphic design html css sitting on apache sql php? And you say you make 60k a year? And are lecturing me on a business with lease and tax and regulations and utilities and are STILL trying to convince me how much raising the minimum wage by $1 an hour will GREATLY EFFECT small business? Wow you are astounding me with your experience. By the way if I had a nickel for every time I met a web designer that claimed they make over 50k a year doing web sites, man I'd have the money to start all the business that could easily start paying people at over $7 an hour. You SWEAR you make that much doing web sites. Web developers at best make 40k a year, unless of course you do other server writing such as java or what not, you are totally full of shit.


Your argument about minimum wage at $9 or whatever you are :crying: about is so full of holes it's not even funny. I'm just going to put it basic, since you know so much about running a business. The fact of the matter is plainly: running a business isn't easy


that is why not everybody does it. If it was easy everyone would do it. When it comes down to it, you need to have money prepared, and invest it, and take your time, deal with people, watch it grow or not grow, and continue to deal with it, and possibly blow a lot of what you have saved before seeing any progress. Not ONLY do you have to pay for a lease, license, llc unless you don't care about liability at the point you have it, probably a lawyer, you probably have to sign a 5 year lease at that for a lot, as most people who want to lease a lot don't give someone an option for just 1 year.


You might also have to deal with advertising, finding some goon to do a web site that claims he makes 60k a year, etc. or newspaper ads, craigslist, or whatever maybe not. EVEN IF it will be just you running the business, you probably need a van, sign on the van, pay for a lot of gas, etc. plus your time and rent etc. is added to all of that in reality, tools if needed, PLUS the most important thing:


a list of clients. Even if you are just mowing lawns, you still need to know 15 people who wants their lawns mowed. Now then you add employees etc. and all the money you had to spend already, just pretty much swimming in debt or at least drowning on the concept of breaking even or profiting at least a few dollars because a business that breaks even doesn't profit for the owner because he has his rent etc. etc. etc.


After all that, you have hired a few people, and are completely competent, pay them things are going well customers keep coming back etc. And suddenly you find out you have to pay each employee an extra $1 an hour. And you start crying like a helpless 6 year old. Doesn't sound like a business owner to me, also doesn't sound like a scenario presented by someone with TONS OF BUSINESS EXPERIENCE THAT CAN IMMEDIATELY BULLSHIT.... ERR... I MEAN RECOGNIZE THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS NONE





:urinate: yeah................. right





can you make one good compelling argument that you didn't just copy and paste off the internet that someone else thought for you? The last few things you said to me while really absurd at least sounded original. Can you make a good argument without just copy pasting what every other retard incoherent republican has tried to throw at people like a little kid throwing food every time they don't get their way? I mean honestly you want to know why a complete idiot like Obama won? Look at Romney and all the other idiots following him around regurgitating the same old horse shit over and over and over again and see if a TWO YEAR OLD couldn't win. I don't even know why I'm replying to you any more. You have proven nothing to me, aside from repeating the same old boring arguments over and over and over again "blah blah minimum wage hurts competitive business blah blah prices go up blah blah the cost of over head of wages is so ridiculous but blah blah you are wrong about the cost of lease, it's much more expensive then you made it seem in your modest argument, blah blah but still an extra dollar blah blah"


You know what happens if people buy floor and don't like $8 a square foot floor? they buy somewhere else, for $5 a square foot. Oh wait that's right you can't lower a MINIMUM WAGE from $8 to $5 :smirk: oh well it's like multiplying square footage of floor I guess if you have 3000 square feet and can't pay for $5 a sf instead of $8 sf then you are paying $24000 for all the floor instead of $1500.


But you know what? Before you say "you just made my point" I'm going to repeat what I said in principle earlier. "poor people don't have the luxury or owning a property with 3000 square foot interior"


Once again you are throwing regurgitated philosophy into a conversation with the "theory" that higher wages will hurt prices against the REALITY that those are just excuses for rich people to make more money. The truth is no "poor" business man will get hurt from minimum wage raises, "poor" business men don't own businesses with lot locations etc. that get hurt by such a small percentage of annual increase. Small business people who do contracting etc. fix air conditioners, landscaping, repairs remodelling etc. guess what they don't claim a lot of pay checks they get paid in cash and get away with whatever they want if you they offer a guy $25 he takes it and otherwise just doesn't do the job. And funny enough in those situation most people make $100 a day


:lolwut: your business experience is just astounding me brah, can you come up with anything original or just going to repeat the same cliche phrases you read on some Republican dip tards web site hoping the 50th time you say it in a row someone finally just changes their mind? :whocares:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: qman]
    #19380091 - 01/06/14 11:11 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
a vast majority of small business's operate at extremely small margins as it is. They cannot afford to lower their margins any more. All you think about when you talk about min. wage increases are large corporations. And i agree they would be able to absorb the costs easily, which is why WalMart suppers a minimum wage hike, they know that they can absorb the cost and go about business as usual, however mom and pop shops cannot, thus putting their competition out of business.




Even with minimum wage at a all-time low in real terms, it would most likely hurt some small business owners if they hiked it, but what does that tell us?   

It says that the general economy is weak, when there is decent economic prosperity taking place, hiking the minimum wage 10% makes little difference, but if there is no real growth taking place, yes I agree it can make a difference.



the economy is improved by more people working and production taking place. Hiking the minimum wage discourages both.




If you are suggesting that eliminating the minimum wage would drastically improve the current economic environment, I would disagree. 

When a economy has been structurally damaged like the US has the last 20 years, things like the minimum wage are pretty meaningless at the end of the day.




He hasn't shown a single shred of proof to back up that claim that the economy will improve without a minimum wage. Just repeated statements of theory he read from other people. Incidentally my last post was very long :lol: why couldn't I sum that up easier? Can you take it apart and see what I'm confronting him on though?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19380100 - 01/06/14 11:14 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
At this point i would just see the federal minimum wage disappear completely. If states/cities wanted to create one for their specific region that'd be fine. However to norm the cost of living across the country is ridiculous in my opinion.




yet you still can't prove that has anything to do with minimum wage? No direct relevance to high costs can be made. Considering in the last 30 years the M W has barely gone up a few dollars and yet you claim this has relevance to constant cost rises. There is no relevance. Cost rises are because of supply and demand. So why keep recycling the same nonsense argument you have been making since you started balling over this wage hike that hasn't occurred yet


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19380199 - 01/06/14 11:42 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

I never said i make 60k a year doing web design. I do a multitude of things, my main source of income is being a partner in a silicon valley software consultancy. With some of my own projects on the side.

Can you show a single sentence of mine that has been copied and pasted? No? Otherwise stop making shit up. Thanks in advance.

Oh and btw i don't identify with the republicans, they are just as bought and paid for as the democrats, identifying with either party is asinine in my opinion.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19380652 - 01/07/14 02:05 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
You know what amazes me when people argue about things such as minimum wage? Let me come up with an example on what I think of capitalism:

let's say I have a business and I create a product and it costs me .90 cents to create this product. Right? And I realize I can make TONS of money if enough people show up and buy my product, so I sell it for $5, since that is what everyone else is selling it for. One day, I've attracted tons and tons of customers, and in theoretical make believe land, the next day 1 million people show up, and buy my product $5 each, not caring because hey what's $5 for a great drink/sandwich/installation whatever. So in my rational mind, if that happened, I would be SOOOO happy these customers showed up, because without them I'd be a completely useless business. They are everything the customers are the life blood of the business, and they just showed up and spent $5 million on my great product, and since making a million products cost me $900,000 then I just made $4.1 million. Now to show these customers how much I appreciate them, in my rationale, I would the next day make the product cost $1.00, and if a million people showed up again, I'd make $100,000 that next day. So what if I'm spending a lot, I get ingredients/materials/supplies etc. from tons of different distributors, so it's like we are all making money, and besides I'm making $100,000 a week.

But this is not the reality of capitalism. In reality a capitalist doesn't give two flying fucks about his customers. They are ants to him in his pawn scheme. So what the capitalist would do to show appreciation towards his customers, is the next day instead of lowering the $5 to $1.00 to bring in more customers, he would CAPITALIZE on the customers he already had. He would raise the price to $10.00 for one product, then $15.00, then $20.00, then before you know it he would charge whatever he could get people to pay.

Now when the minimum wage goes up, these ass holes who couldn't give a shit less about dip shit customer A who is dumb enough to go pay more for what he likes because he loves what he buys so much, are now forced to pay more. They have all the power in the world, and now have to pay more. In fact speaking of people who make a lot of money, a person painting a house these days generally charges $35 an hour. I've seen it most people charge over $200 a day when painting a house they make often on one job $1400 $1700 $2000 $2300 etc. So it's not just like BILLIONAIRES pay out. Now all the sudden these people have to pay a LITTLE bit more, and yet you get these droves of people who come in complaining that the free market and capitalism that drives our country is being destroyed, prices are going to go up :rolleyes:(yeah, all the sudden, because right now things are cheap), and oh my god the free market will be destroyed

:lolwut: what a bunch of bullshit. I mean honestly I can't believe the people who swallow this shit. And to be honest, when only one class has all the money, it hurts other business, namely the small business. If Bill and Melinda Gates are the only people who go out and spend good cash every night, then only the finest steak house in Grenich Connecticut is going to have customers and business. But on the other hand, if EVERYONE in the country has an extra $100 to spend at the end of the week, then little Joe shit shack down the street that sells cheap $2.00 burgers but doesn't attract the wealthy crowd because he doesn't have marble pillars holding up the place and oak desks and a waiting list will suddenly have TONS of people going to spend on great cheap burgers.

WHO IS GOING TO LOSE?????

I mean really :facepalm: in a world of philosophy where the minimum wage goes up to $17 an hour all the sudden no one can afford to pay employees etc. etc. OBVIOUSLY it's going to disturb the free market. But raising it $1 an hour to keep up with a level of inflation and setting a wage that frankly probably would have benefited everyone 20 years ago is NOT GOING TO HURT CAPITALISM. Your precious capitalism won't be damaged. And if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure dish washers will still be the poorest people in existence next week. So if you feel wrongly about un motivated people who refuse to go to school and better themselves with fancier educations and careers and employment living more comfortably, well I doubt they will get much from a minimum wage increase :smirk:

As said a minimum wage raise won't change much but it will make life SLIGHTLY EASIER for the lowest class and balance spending in terms of who spends where what economically a little bit.





Your ignorance of economics is without peer on this forum.  Your post shows you know absolutely nothing about supply and demand curves, price elasticity, market value, profit margins, or any of the other plethora of concepts that are the reason a business owner sells a product at a certain price.

you whine about 'dumb people who pay high prices' well why the shit do you care.  They pay what they think the product is worth to them.  They don't have to buy the product but they do.  And people who who work for shit wages do so by their own choice. 

You need to learn something about economics before you go posting this fucking nonsense drivel.

face it--you are butthurt envious about people who make money.  sorry you can't hack it and make more money yourself for whatever reason.  you should either learn to do something that will make you money, but if you don't care about making money just suck it up and live on a minimal income because that's your choice.  But don't badmouth everyone who tries to do better for themselves because you choose not to.

you sound like a little punk who just took it up the ass from a downs syndrome idiot in the county jail because you don't have the balls to stand up for yourself. 

Jesus christ man, grow a pair and quit fucking crying and blaming the world because your situation is shit.  And if you are happy with your situation then don't try to drag everyone else into your little sphere of butthurt.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19381451 - 01/07/14 09:18 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Vanity to the max right here ^.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19381895 - 01/07/14 11:14 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
You know what amazes me when people argue about things such as minimum wage? Let me come up with an example on what I think of capitalism:

let's say I have a business and I create a product and it costs me .90 cents to create this product. Right? And I realize I can make TONS of money if enough people show up and buy my product, so I sell it for $5, since that is what everyone else is selling it for. One day, I've attracted tons and tons of customers, and in theoretical make believe land, the next day 1 million people show up, and buy my product $5 each, not caring because hey what's $5 for a great drink/sandwich/installation whatever. So in my rational mind, if that happened, I would be SOOOO happy these customers showed up, because without them I'd be a completely useless business. They are everything the customers are the life blood of the business, and they just showed up and spent $5 million on my great product, and since making a million products cost me $900,000 then I just made $4.1 million. Now to show these customers how much I appreciate them, in my rationale, I would the next day make the product cost $1.00, and if a million people showed up again, I'd make $100,000 that next day. So what if I'm spending a lot, I get ingredients/materials/supplies etc. from tons of different distributors, so it's like we are all making money, and besides I'm making $100,000 a week.

But this is not the reality of capitalism. In reality a capitalist doesn't give two flying fucks about his customers. They are ants to him in his pawn scheme. So what the capitalist would do to show appreciation towards his customers, is the next day instead of lowering the $5 to $1.00 to bring in more customers, he would CAPITALIZE on the customers he already had. He would raise the price to $10.00 for one product, then $15.00, then $20.00, then before you know it he would charge whatever he could get people to pay.

Now when the minimum wage goes up, these ass holes who couldn't give a shit less about dip shit customer A who is dumb enough to go pay more for what he likes because he loves what he buys so much, are now forced to pay more. They have all the power in the world, and now have to pay more. In fact speaking of people who make a lot of money, a person painting a house these days generally charges $35 an hour. I've seen it most people charge over $200 a day when painting a house they make often on one job $1400 $1700 $2000 $2300 etc. So it's not just like BILLIONAIRES pay out. Now all the sudden these people have to pay a LITTLE bit more, and yet you get these droves of people who come in complaining that the free market and capitalism that drives our country is being destroyed, prices are going to go up :rolleyes:(yeah, all the sudden, because right now things are cheap), and oh my god the free market will be destroyed

:lolwut: what a bunch of bullshit. I mean honestly I can't believe the people who swallow this shit. And to be honest, when only one class has all the money, it hurts other business, namely the small business. If Bill and Melinda Gates are the only people who go out and spend good cash every night, then only the finest steak house in Grenich Connecticut is going to have customers and business. But on the other hand, if EVERYONE in the country has an extra $100 to spend at the end of the week, then little Joe shit shack down the street that sells cheap $2.00 burgers but doesn't attract the wealthy crowd because he doesn't have marble pillars holding up the place and oak desks and a waiting list will suddenly have TONS of people going to spend on great cheap burgers.

WHO IS GOING TO LOSE?????

I mean really :facepalm: in a world of philosophy where the minimum wage goes up to $17 an hour all the sudden no one can afford to pay employees etc. etc. OBVIOUSLY it's going to disturb the free market. But raising it $1 an hour to keep up with a level of inflation and setting a wage that frankly probably would have benefited everyone 20 years ago is NOT GOING TO HURT CAPITALISM. Your precious capitalism won't be damaged. And if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure dish washers will still be the poorest people in existence next week. So if you feel wrongly about un motivated people who refuse to go to school and better themselves with fancier educations and careers and employment living more comfortably, well I doubt they will get much from a minimum wage increase :smirk:

As said a minimum wage raise won't change much but it will make life SLIGHTLY EASIER for the lowest class and balance spending in terms of who spends where what economically a little bit.





Your ignorance of economics is without peer on this forum.  Your post shows you know absolutely nothing about supply and demand curves, price elasticity, market value, profit margins, or any of the other plethora of concepts that are the reason a business owner sells a product at a certain price.






Oh wow big college words :stoned: man you really showed me you must be worth tens of millions since those words stand out to you :lol:

hey if I have down syndrome at least I don't put a cock in my mouth like you do talking all this shit about "profit margins" and price elasticity. You don't know two fucks about the difference between .25 times a thousand, but you can keep barking about how raising the minimum wage $1 will HURT prices and the long term economic environment :crying:

You sound like a college boy who never had a minimum wage job. Shit you probably went to college just to argue shit like this and sound smart, "supply and demand" haha you are a spoiled brat but still know nothing about real wealth and the 1% you have never been in a $10 million house. "Demand curves" :laugh2: why don't you tell me what a curve in demand is you probably think stock is the entire reason for a businesses existence go run a lemonade stand put down the book you frat boy suck up



oh please explain to me wise one how the minimum wage effects the basic nickel, show me how it has effected the price of gold and silver and aluminium :zomgwtf: oh my god aluminium is going up so says study boy who took economics classes and thinks he words like "demand curve" makes him equivalent to the experience of running 15 restaurants :lolwut:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19381930 - 01/07/14 11:20 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

"supply and demand" haha you are a spoiled brat but still know nothing about real wealth and the 1% you have never been in a $10 million house. "Demand curves" :laugh2:



shit these are basic economic concepts i learned in high school if you think they are meaningless terms you really are far gone beyond reality.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19381946 - 01/07/14 11:25 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Oh and btw i don't identify with the republicans, they are just as bought and paid for as the democrats, identifying with either party is asinine in my opinion.




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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19381993 - 01/07/14 11:37 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

"supply and demand" haha you are a spoiled brat but still know nothing about real wealth and the 1% you have never been in a $10 million house. "Demand curves" :laugh2:



shit these are basic economic concepts i learned in high school if you think they are meaningless terms you really are far gone beyond reality.




they are meaningless "terms" I don't care how many times you read what "supply and demand is." It's like if I read about "cars" then go around acting like I drive at Nascar and build and take apart cars.

What does that mean "supply and demand" anyway? Here is a good one:

there is a demand for politicians who will raise higher wages. Therefore people supply votes to those who will raise wages. Then everyone cries Obama is an ass hole, but you only have a bunch of Republicans and study boys to compete with him, which most people laugh at, so he wins and raises the minimum wage.

Problem solved. As for "supply and demand" you don't run a business telling people what they want. The customer is never wrong, that's why a snickers bar sells for $1 at a Shell gas station. Maybe though you and Starfire can go take your college experience knowing how business and demand works and go tell Mars how to run their business.

Minimum wage is a joke, if it was $12 IT WOULD STILL BE A JOKE you and Starfire sound incompetent acting as though a business will have a tough time raising wages $1 an hour. Your ideas of experienced business owners to me represent a bad joke, some idiots who are coke heads. I don't care what classes and series 7 license people study to learn terms like "demand curve." I know stock brokers, most of them don't care what "demand curve" is, they care about selling stock. When you sell stock if a person loses money guess what? You get them to buy more stock. It's called sales.

I don't consider a business owner who has a tough time with a $1 wage increase a "sales" expert I call him a moron. I want to see some valid corroborated evidence that minimum wage has raised gas prices or real estate prices or something substantial. You won't show any, you know why? Because it doesn't exist. There is no correlation. You guys keep barking about "supply and demand" but obviously have no idea what it is outside of a fucking text book. No offence, but in the last 30 years the minimum wage has gone up, what..... $3 an hour? Gas has gone up what? 500%?

You now think you are going to feed me a story and say some words like "demand curve" (no offence you didn't say it Starfire did) and get me to believe that the M W will effect business "experts" who do NOTHING but turn a profit?

You know how a guy who sells $300,000 of floor to a person building a house with 5000 sf interior does it? First he sells them most of the floor for $30k the including pavers for the drive way travertine around the pool etc. Then when the customer trusts him he turns around and sells them the bathroom kitchen stair case floor for $230,000 when a customer knows the guy has the best product and is willing to pay for the finest crema marfil of calacatta marble. This is what sales is right here, it's the art of getting a person to trust you 95% and little do they realize the product is only 5% of the sale just because they feel they get something out of you they get out of nobody.

Now what does $8 an hour versus $5 an hour have to do with IT consulting? "oh my servers have a slow connection, but we get 50mb a second interface, ummm.... yeah the web site is sitting on a really old machine and it was written before html5 existed."

"Oh well dude, as your consultant I need to tell you, I hired this guy today and we are paying him $8 an hour instead of $7 an hour, so instead of the job being done at $180 an hour consulting fee, it's now going to run you $360 an hour."

Now you and me both know this scenario doesn't exist. I'm still waiting for a scenario that does exist that will prove I'm wrong and you are right. IT consultants don't worry about minimum wage. Gardeners don't worry about minimum wage because they are paid cash and don't claim taxes and can hire a guy for whatever a sandwich. Restaurants don't worry about minimum wage because most of the employees live on tips and last I heard cooks already earn $11. Billionaires don't worry about it because they have little to lose. I know you aren't worried about it IT consultants don't charge minimum wage and you can hire interns for free if need be.

I'm just asking who does. An actual real life scenario, not involving stock brokers that are pissed off about share value because companies raised prices and now people buy less product and stocks are going down. I already said I don't care about those people, they are insignificant sales people to me, when you live by the phrase "churn em and burn em" as a sales tactic you deserve losses. I'm saying the little guy, the guy you say owns the hardware store and now he is facing serious debt because of a minimum wage increase. How is he hurt? A real life scenario thank you


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Ran-D]
    #19382002 - 01/07/14 11:39 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Oh and btw i don't identify with the republicans, they are just as bought and paid for as the democrats, identifying with either party is asinine in my opinion.




:thumbup:




I'm just tired of arguing with people who are studying to be stock brokers but haven't sold one share is all. They are saying "minimum wage hurts the little guy." But I see no evidence that it does. Most people don't become fund managers because I hear these days fund managers don't even charge a fee anymore. "churn em and burn em" and stock demand is not something that effects the little guy as everyone is arguing it's something that effects big greed and I've already said I don't care how the minimum wage effects that


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel]
    #19382023 - 01/07/14 11:45 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Look, imachavel and Starfire_xes, both of you have to dial your rhetoric back several notches or you'll both be banned. By rights I could have banned each of you by now.

Make your arguments and back off the personal slams.


Phred


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Phred] * 2
    #19382088 - 01/07/14 11:58 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

And by the way, of course increases in minimum wage do more to hurt the economy than help it. These increases make it less likely for the most financially vulnerable in society to get one: the young and the unskilled. This has been conclusively demonstrated by so many economists for so many decades that it's kind of strange to see anyone attempting to argue otherwise.


Phred


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Phred] * 1
    #19382153 - 01/07/14 12:13 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Who is an IT consultant? You have no idea what i do :lol: I'm a partner in a software consultancy. I basically write custom software solutions for a business's specific organizational needs. Its actually a pretty cool job, i get to work with all kinds of business's. Recently i was working with a DNA sequencing lab. Very interesting stuff.

Did someone claim to be a stock broker? I missed that part. It boils down to this, if the costs of doing business go up, business's will shut down, and it will discourage other business's from starting in the first place, even if it is just $1 an hour more. Now in your scenario i'd agree it will have only a small increase in payroll, however why add more burden to business's than already exist? And Obama and then dems are pushing for a $10.10 an hour min. wage. Significantly more than your $1 an hour raise scenario.

Lets say a business hires 5 people at min. wage. This is a very common an not uncommon scenario. With 5 people full time at mw the yearly payroll comes out to $69,600 a year. If the min. wage hikes up to $10.10 an hour yearly payroll will increase to $96,000 a year. That is a $26,400 a year increase in doing business. That would be extremely difficult for any small local business to cope with. You wanted real world scenarios? There you go, current min wage vs the min wage the administration is actually pushing for.


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