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myc_check1212
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: zappaisgod]
#19360448 - 01/02/14 07:50 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:.. Has the demand for labor dropped or has the distaste among bratty American mediocrities to accept laborious jobs increased? There's no shortage of border jumping scum willing to take the jobs. American slackers would rather couch surf than work.
both, however the latter is insult to injury. Stings bad
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: myc_check1212]
#19362046 - 01/03/14 03:59 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Maybe it's just a concept to me that is beyond what most people think. That to me is the concept that I can never imagine a "poor person" owning a business that so many people seem to have this view of a business owner as being poor or something that he has to pay people an extra $1 an hour and the guy is like

To me the concept is like I go around doing landscaping just me and my van and tools. One day I realize I'm making enough and could use help to expedite the process and hire people. I feel at this point a person is wealthy enough and prepared to pay people whatever it takes. This was normal when I was a little kid a business owner was not a "poor person" even if they struggled they ever went belly up or not. Of course a minimum wage of going from $7 to $17 would destroy someone but I've never heard of such a ridiculous thing. Everyone now has this mentality of like crying for people over their losses considering they own so much more then everyone else. It just blows me away 
I feel things have changed so much since I was younger. Hell when I was 17 I could walk in anywhere and get a job I could have probably worked for a week quit and gotten a job somewhere else and kept applying and kept quitting and kept working different places every week. Now I can't imagine coming close to finding work by the day or work by the week or work by the month. And back in the day no one cried over rich peoples losses. I can't believe how much the world has changed, hell in the 80s my mom worked at a jewelry store making $14 an hour and the minimum wage by where we were was $4 something an hour back then and no one thought it was weird she was making that much she just told everyone "the owner really appreciates me."
I also don't think anyone would have said "she couldn't have gotten that job if the entry level was $9." I don't see why not she got paid that much almost right off the bat just because she knew a lot about jewelry and had previous experience. I don't cry for people who can't afford to pay who they hire enough I find that people who operate a business should be extremely competent I'm always complaining that in this country there aren't enough business owners not enough entrepreneurs but maybe I'm wrong maybe there are too many business owners that the world gets together and has a little cry baby fest over the cost of labour as though metals will be traded based on cost of labour now not based on demand. Has anyone ever seen GOLD go down because of minimum wage laws? I mean come on give me a break
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: zappaisgod]
#19362060 - 01/03/14 04:09 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Has the demand for labor dropped or has the distaste among bratty American mediocrities to accept laborious jobs increased? There's no shortage of border jumping scum willing to take the jobs. American slackers would rather couch surf than work.
but how is this relevant to minimum wage? Once upon a time the $2.50 or whatever that Americans were making was equivalent to like $9 an hour now considering the cheap cost of everything else a house could easily be bought for under 100k in a crowded city and a good house too. What corroboration is there that minimum wage has effected America's work ethic at all? Perhaps if it has in any way, it's that spoiled American kids go out and work, make basically fucking nothing, and realize it's easier to get free cash from their parents then go out and work all fucking day for $56, and then get taxed 25%, and take home less then $45 for the day.
Of course yes compared to other countries our spoiled rotten children are lucky. But when college kids realize that daddy got a job his first year out of college and bought a house a few years later in his time and they have personally been a graduate for 4 years now and can't find shit besides temp intern positions and are flipping burgers, they realize their successful parents are easier to live with and take advantage of and their work is completely unappreciated so why try? I mean if raising the M W .50 fucking cents creates a stronger spending consumer, then by all means I say fucking do it. But we all know this isn't the problem with the economy, is businesses losing money because of consumer spending. That's 100% bullshit billionaires are richer now then ever in history. This is just a numbers game, and to me complaining about a few peons getting an extra quarter an hour just shows pure ignorance about what side of the game the people are winning on the numbers
what's next a story about how our economy is going to get weaker compared to Russia post communist and countries like China and Cuba still fairly pro communist in mentality because of minimum wage raises?
Also, all those countries in Europe that have no minimum wage that people praise so much? They are all BROKE AS SHIT and EXTREMELY socialist dependent like 40% of the population depends on welfare. How can that be used as a positive example?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel] 1
#19362364 - 01/03/14 08:02 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Has the demand for labor dropped or has the distaste among bratty American mediocrities to accept laborious jobs increased? There's no shortage of border jumping scum willing to take the jobs. American slackers would rather couch surf than work.
but how is this relevant to minimum wage?
Because it explains the market. I'm going to say this again. If you are in your mid twenties and have been in the work force for more than a year and minimum wage is a relevant concern of yours you are a complete fucking loserQuote:
Once upon a time the $2.50 or whatever that Americans were making was equivalent to like $9 an hour now considering the cheap cost of everything else a house could easily be bought for under 100k in a crowded city and a good house too.
You can still buy a house for 100K.Quote:
What corroboration is there that minimum wage has effected America's work ethic at all?
I didn't say it did.Quote:
Perhaps if it has in any way, it's that spoiled American kids go out and work, make basically fucking nothing, and realize it's easier to get free cash from their parents then go out and work all fucking day for $56, and then get taxed 25%, and take home less then $45 for the day.
Of course yes compared to other countries our spoiled rotten children are lucky. But when college kids realize that daddy got a job his first year out of college and bought a house a few years later in his time and they have personally been a graduate for 4 years now and can't find shit besides temp intern positions and are flipping burgers, they realize their successful parents are easier to live with and take advantage of and their work is completely unappreciated so why try?
Why try? Why not just kill themselves?Quote:
I mean if raising the M W .50 fucking cents creates a stronger spending consumer, then by all means I say fucking do it.
It doesn't. Why not just smash windows so you can fix them?Quote:
But we all know this isn't the problem with the economy, is businesses losing money because of consumer spending. That's 100% bullshit billionaires are richer now then ever in history. This is just a numbers game, and to me complaining about a few peons getting an extra quarter an hour just shows pure ignorance about what side of the game the people are winning on the numbers.
Raising the minimum wage will raise prices for poor peonsQuote:
what's next a story about how our economy is going to get weaker compared to Russia post communist and countries like China and Cuba still fairly pro communist in mentality because of minimum wage raises?
More from you. Quote:
Also, all those countries in Europe that have no minimum wage that people praise so much? They are all BROKE AS SHIT and EXTREMELY socialist dependent like 40% of the population depends on welfare. How can that be used as a positive example?
You really need to find a way to make a living.
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Blue Shaman
Psilosopher



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: zappaisgod]
#19362383 - 01/03/14 08:12 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Funny how on one forum over there, people are talking about how fungus brings people together, how we are essentially the same, and here we see how they can tear each other apart. Money. Awesome.
-------------------- Into the Blue PsiloCyber Scientist
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Blue Shaman]
#19362390 - 01/03/14 08:14 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Perhaps that's because, despite the Kumbayah crap, we are not all the same.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Blue Shaman]
#19362422 - 01/03/14 08:28 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blue Shaman said: Funny how on one forum over there, people are talking about how fungus brings people together, how we are essentially the same, and here we see how they can tear each other apart. Money. Awesome.
What forum is that?
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myc_check1212
Through Brass



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel]
#19362495 - 01/03/14 09:02 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Socialism is the reason they're broke.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: myc_check1212]
#19362694 - 01/03/14 10:13 AM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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If the state provides a floor there are too many people who will accept it as a comfortable place to sleep.
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Shins
Fun guy



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Blue Shaman]
#19363135 - 01/03/14 12:11 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Blue Shaman said: Funny how on one forum over there, people are talking about how fungus brings people together, how we are essentially the same, and here we see how they can tear each other apart. Money. Awesome.
The market brings people together too.
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myc_check1212
Through Brass



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: zappaisgod]
#19363637 - 01/03/14 02:14 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: If the state provides a floor there are too many people who will accept it as a comfortable place to sleep.
fucking truth!
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: zappaisgod]
#19363948 - 01/03/14 03:33 PM (10 years, 27 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Has the demand for labor dropped or has the distaste among bratty American mediocrities to accept laborious jobs increased? There's no shortage of border jumping scum willing to take the jobs. American slackers would rather couch surf than work.
but how is this relevant to minimum wage?
you are a complete fucking loser.
yeah no kidding read it more often it's good for you to hear
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#19371497 - 01/05/14 06:16 AM (10 years, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Perhaps that's because, despite the Kumbayah crap, we are not all the same.
Do you not need to eat, shit and breathe? Do you not long for love? Do you not want to be respected and treated justly? Do you not want to be free?
Of course people are not all the same. Not everyone is white, black, rich, poor, greedy, needy, whatever superficial quality you can think of. But on a fundamental level, we are all humans, all have needs and desires and fears. This is what is meant with "we are all equal".
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19378149 - 01/06/14 05:10 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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You know what amazes me when people argue about things such as minimum wage? Let me come up with an example on what I think of capitalism:
let's say I have a business and I create a product and it costs me .90 cents to create this product. Right? And I realize I can make TONS of money if enough people show up and buy my product, so I sell it for $5, since that is what everyone else is selling it for. One day, I've attracted tons and tons of customers, and in theoretical make believe land, the next day 1 million people show up, and buy my product $5 each, not caring because hey what's $5 for a great drink/sandwich/installation whatever. So in my rational mind, if that happened, I would be SOOOO happy these customers showed up, because without them I'd be a completely useless business. They are everything the customers are the life blood of the business, and they just showed up and spent $5 million on my great product, and since making a million products cost me $900,000 then I just made $4.1 million. Now to show these customers how much I appreciate them, in my rationale, I would the next day make the product cost $1.00, and if a million people showed up again, I'd make $100,000 that next day. So what if I'm spending a lot, I get ingredients/materials/supplies etc. from tons of different distributors, so it's like we are all making money, and besides I'm making $100,000 a week.
But this is not the reality of capitalism. In reality a capitalist doesn't give two flying fucks about his customers. They are ants to him in his pawn scheme. So what the capitalist would do to show appreciation towards his customers, is the next day instead of lowering the $5 to $1.00 to bring in more customers, he would CAPITALIZE on the customers he already had. He would raise the price to $10.00 for one product, then $15.00, then $20.00, then before you know it he would charge whatever he could get people to pay.
Now when the minimum wage goes up, these ass holes who couldn't give a shit less about dip shit customer A who is dumb enough to go pay more for what he likes because he loves what he buys so much, are now forced to pay more. They have all the power in the world, and now have to pay more. In fact speaking of people who make a lot of money, a person painting a house these days generally charges $35 an hour. I've seen it most people charge over $200 a day when painting a house they make often on one job $1400 $1700 $2000 $2300 etc. So it's not just like BILLIONAIRES pay out. Now all the sudden these people have to pay a LITTLE bit more, and yet you get these droves of people who come in complaining that the free market and capitalism that drives our country is being destroyed, prices are going to go up (yeah, all the sudden, because right now things are cheap), and oh my god the free market will be destroyed
what a bunch of bullshit. I mean honestly I can't believe the people who swallow this shit. And to be honest, when only one class has all the money, it hurts other business, namely the small business. If Bill and Melinda Gates are the only people who go out and spend good cash every night, then only the finest steak house in Grenich Connecticut is going to have customers and business. But on the other hand, if EVERYONE in the country has an extra $100 to spend at the end of the week, then little Joe shit shack down the street that sells cheap $2.00 burgers but doesn't attract the wealthy crowd because he doesn't have marble pillars holding up the place and oak desks and a waiting list will suddenly have TONS of people going to spend on great cheap burgers.
WHO IS GOING TO LOSE?????
I mean really in a world of philosophy where the minimum wage goes up to $17 an hour all the sudden no one can afford to pay employees etc. etc. OBVIOUSLY it's going to disturb the free market. But raising it $1 an hour to keep up with a level of inflation and setting a wage that frankly probably would have benefited everyone 20 years ago is NOT GOING TO HURT CAPITALISM. Your precious capitalism won't be damaged. And if it makes you feel any better, I'm sure dish washers will still be the poorest people in existence next week. So if you feel wrongly about un motivated people who refuse to go to school and better themselves with fancier educations and careers and employment living more comfortably, well I doubt they will get much from a minimum wage increase 
As said a minimum wage raise won't change much but it will make life SLIGHTLY EASIER for the lowest class and balance spending in terms of who spends where what economically a little bit.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel] 1
#19378164 - 01/06/14 05:16 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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what do you think happens when the cost of doing business goes up for a company/business? One of three things will happen:
A) They cannot continue to afford to do business and they shut down
B) They fire employees to make up for the higher cost
C) They increase the cost of their goods/services to make up for the cost
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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qman
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19378230 - 01/06/14 05:29 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: what do you think happens when the cost of doing business goes up for a company/business? One of three things will happen:
A) They cannot continue to afford to do business and they shut down
B) They fire employees to make up for the higher cost
C) They increase the cost of their goods/services to make up for the cost
D) Their profit margins come down and life goes on as usual.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: qman] 2
#19378257 - 01/06/14 05:34 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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a vast majority of small business's operate at extremely small margins as it is. They cannot afford to lower their margins any more. All you think about when you talk about min. wage increases are large corporations. And i agree they would be able to absorb the costs easily, which is why WalMart suppers a minimum wage hike, they know that they can absorb the cost and go about business as usual, however mom and pop shops cannot, thus putting their competition out of business.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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qman
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19378436 - 01/06/14 06:04 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: a vast majority of small business's operate at extremely small margins as it is. They cannot afford to lower their margins any more. All you think about when you talk about min. wage increases are large corporations. And i agree they would be able to absorb the costs easily, which is why WalMart suppers a minimum wage hike, they know that they can absorb the cost and go about business as usual, however mom and pop shops cannot, thus putting their competition out of business.
Even with minimum wage at a all-time low in real terms, it would most likely hurt some small business owners if they hiked it, but what does that tell us?
It says that the general economy is weak, when there is decent economic prosperity taking place, hiking the minimum wage 10% makes little difference, but if there is no real growth taking place, yes I agree it can make a difference.
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19378585 - 01/06/14 06:28 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: what do you think happens when the cost of doing business goes up for a company/business? One of three things will happen:
A) They cannot continue to afford to do business and they shut down
B) They fire employees to make up for the higher cost
C) They increase the cost of their goods/services to make up for the cost
This is all bullshit in any reality besides the perspective of theory.
Any business that is paying people $7 an hour, let's say two people. Let's say this business pays each of two people $7 an hour and also $1 an hour for lease plus $1 an hour in general cost of production plus $1 an hour miscellaneous. So hiring two employees plus an extra $3 an hour would add up to $10 an hour.
So let's say this business made JUST ENOUGH to break even. That's means each year they would have to make 17x8x5x4x12, which comes out to:
$32,640 a year just to break even. So let's say the business made $35,000 a year and had a $2460 a year profit margin I'm trying so hard not to laugh at what a joke a business owner who makes about 3k a year is, but for the example if the minimum wage went up to $8 now the business would be running at $19 an hour instead of $17 an hour. Ok so let's add that up same way 19x8x5x4x12 comes out to
$36,480 a year it costs to run the business instead of $32,640. So now instead of the owner making a $2460 a year profit he is now $1480 a year in debt. So upon this theoretical basis, if a business owner has to pay a higher minimum wage, it hurts his business. Now here is another question for you
what type of retard business owner who can't deal with a $4000 a year increase because his profit is less then each employee makes on his own, and is too stupid and incompetent to run a better business, should have the privilege of owning a business
if you were a bank, would you give a loan to an idiot profiting 4k a year? Let me give you a hint, I know this as a fact actually. Most lenders require a business to make 100k a year before giving them a loan, and at least 30k a year I know definitely is the minimum. Why??? Because if a chump makes 50k a year, and takes home 25k a year(because it's not all profit), do you actually think anyone is going to loan to someone that makes a basic living enough for food rent and insurance?
Now on that side of the argument, you are saying if the owner made more but paid less in wages, he would be more likely to be approved for a loan because he would take home more, and could expand his business. Well certainly, IF the minimum wage was going to go up to $17 an hour, I would certainly agree that is hurts everyone economically. But from my side of the fence, I see people who run businesses as incompetent as the employees themselves and not necessarily more skilled or qualified. Why? Because of what you are arguing. You are arguing that a business owner has more skill and is therefore worth more then the base pay of all his employees put together.
Well in that case if the guy is skilled and competent, and I owned a bank, I wouldn't want some jack ass coming to me asking for a loan, that I know would lose just TONS AND TONS of money if he had to pay an extra $1 an hour in wages to his employees. That to me would suck, I would only want to lend to PRIME clients. Not idiots, but prime clients as people who would return a loan with interest. So these wages to me creating harder to run businesses shows the incompetence of business owners.
In theory, a higher wage would make negotiating a higher wage by first getting your foot in the door at base wage harder to do. But this country is run by reality, not bullshit philosophy. If that philosophy was true, then minimum wage wouldn't matter, because as it is it's such a joke that NO HONEST EMPLOYEE would ever have to negotiate such a low honest living at such a low wage. Really, there is a reason minimum wage exists, because if employers negotiated fairly, there would be no such thing
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: qman]
#19378597 - 01/06/14 06:31 PM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
psyconaught said: a vast majority of small business's operate at extremely small margins as it is. They cannot afford to lower their margins any more. All you think about when you talk about min. wage increases are large corporations. And i agree they would be able to absorb the costs easily, which is why WalMart suppers a minimum wage hike, they know that they can absorb the cost and go about business as usual, however mom and pop shops cannot, thus putting their competition out of business.
Even with minimum wage at a all-time low in real terms, it would most likely hurt some small business owners if they hiked it, but what does that tell us?
It says that the general economy is weak, when there is decent economic prosperity taking place, hiking the minimum wage 10% makes little difference, but if there is no real growth taking place, yes I agree it can make a difference.
exactly. Mom and pop owners don't profit from wealthy individuals. Wealthy individuals go to more expensive planes. Mom and pop owners profit from the dinner bucket crowd. The dinner bucket crowd spends more when wages are higher. There is nothing about what psychonaut argues to me that makes sense in any other way then theory. In theory that is true at $17 an hour mom and pop go out of business. But I'm not arguing theory I'm arguing reality
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
Edited by imachavel (01/06/14 06:31 PM)
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