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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19331888 - 12/27/13 06:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
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I don't really see how having several castles and private jets while others work their asses off for a tiny wage to feed their family is fair in any way. Especially when it is the latter, larger part of the people that is exploited to support the former's lifestyle.
he's a multi billionaire. You claimed people with his lifestyle exploited the working class to get where he is today. So please explain that to me. And please explain why it is not 'fair'
You misunderstood. My criticism was not directed at specific examples, but at the general situation. What I am saying is: We have reached a point in our society where we have, in principle, generated enough wealth for everyone to have a decent life without having to fear existential problems. In reality, however, this is not the case. Overall poverty is increasing while wealth is increasing as well, which leads me to the conclusion that there is a problem concerning the distribution of wealth. This in turn implies there is a growing inequality of wealth and this does not resonate well with the principle that economy should benefit the larger part of the people and not just a tiny part of it. That is what I consider unfair. Do you not agree?
Concerning Elon Musk, I do not know whether he pays his employees well or takes care of good working conditions or not. I do not know whether he gives his workers a fair share of the cake they earned together. Do you?
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19331899 - 12/27/13 06:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lord_McLovin said: Overall poverty is increasing…
Incorrect. World poverty has been decreasing steadily for decades now.
Phred
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Phred]
#19332239 - 12/27/13 09:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was talking about the US, but the rest of the world is even more fucked up. Here's the most recent figure that popped up:

taken from this article.
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19332497 - 12/27/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
but the rest of the world is even more fucked up
care to elaborate?
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19333108 - 12/27/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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1$ a day.  And you call that just?
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psyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19333113 - 12/27/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That graph is showing the amount of people who are getting out of earning more than $1 a day. Also 'just' means nothing. Cost of living is not comparable across the globe, or the country. Its why i don't believe in a Federal minimum wage.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Lord_McLovin
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19333135 - 12/27/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are right cost of living can differ a lot. But you do agree that the average standard of living most non-Western countries have is not even remotely comparable to ours (even compared to most of what we consider poor), don't you?
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qman
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19333340 - 12/27/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
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but the rest of the world is even more fucked up
care to elaborate?

It's not inflation adjusted, either way, what's the major accomplishment for reaching the $1.50-$2.00 per day level?
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psyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19333893 - 12/27/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Lord_McLovin said: You are right cost of living can differ a lot. But you do agree that the average standard of living most non-Western countries have is not even remotely comparable to ours (even compared to most of what we consider poor), don't you?
of course poor countries have different lifestyles. Whats your point?
Quote:
what's the major accomplishment for reaching the $1.50-$2.00 per day level?
if you're making $0.50 a day then the accomplishment is massive.
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Lord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms



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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19335581 - 12/28/13 04:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
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what's the major accomplishment for reaching the $1.50-$2.00 per day level?
if you're making $0.50 a day then the accomplishment is massive.
That's difficult to say, you may be right or not. What matters at the end is how much more you can actually afford with such a wage increase and that depends heavily on the local development of prices. We would need more data to say anything about that.
Quote:
psyconaught said:
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Lord_McLovin said: You are right, cost of living can differ a lot. But you do agree that the average standard of living most non-Western countries have is not even remotely comparable to ours (even compared to most of what we consider poor), don't you?
of course poor countries have different lifestyles. Whats your point?
My point is that one of the major reasons we can live like this today is that we have oppressed and exploited the people living in those areas throughout history and are still doing so. We treat them like the capitalists treat us, the workforce.
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psyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Lord_McLovin]
#19336403 - 12/28/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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bullshit. Third world countries being third world has nothing to do with Capitalism. Capitalism raises people out of poverty, those people have a choice to work at sweat shops because its better than the alternative.
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19336458 - 12/28/13 10:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
psyconaught said:
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I don't really see how having several castles and private jets while others work their asses off for a tiny wage to feed their family is fair in any way. Especially when it is the latter, larger part of the people that is exploited to support the former's lifestyle.
he's a multi billionaire. You claimed people with his lifestyle exploited the working class to get where he is today. So please explain that to me. And please explain why it is not 'fair'
It's just as fair as raising the fucking lowest possible wage 50 cents a fucking hour. You can't have your cake, eat it too, have a billion, wine and moan and make another cake too. Deal with it, as for people saying "raising the minimum wage will make it impossible for gardeners to hire people they will have to pay too much." Gardeners pay their helpers $100 a day, less then 8 hours at $8 an hour, and besides they don't claim any money anyway quit being pompous they get paid cash don't claim taxes and can pay people whatever they want and never get in trouble for it.
Grow up, I'm tired of people in these posts acting as though they grew up on the nickel then complain about $1 an hour wage raise. Yeah right, you grew up on the nickel, watched your mom be a bartender then when they decided to pay her an extra $1 an hour you started complaining that democracy has been desecrated 
you dodged the question. Answer it please
The question wasn't towards me, but I'll answer it. You know why it's unfair to exploit the working class? Because a rich guy can do it and not even feel like he is doing anything wrong. It's completely legal to hire someone and pay them nothing but $7 an hour. The reason the rich exploit everything is because we let them. So as much as people say it's unfair to have a minimum wage, there is no MAXIMUM in the name middle wage. It does not forbid paying more. But as for caping wages, now that you mention it I'm not against it. It should be capped in dividends, not in salary. The reason the working class is exploited it because society let's them.
I think I propose a dividend cap, no company owner shall take in more then $250 million a year, through salary, stock, or other. If making more then so, the resulting extra profit shall be put back into a company account and not allowed to be drawn back out, until the next $250 million next year. I think that's fair, a quarter million a year earnings cap.
If you think that'll stagnate democracy, to be limited on pulling out too much money out of your corporate account for personal use, that is, a quarter of a million, then you must be crazy  
I can't imagine anyone having a hard time living on that
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psyconaught]
#19336479 - 12/28/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said:
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Lord_McLovin said: You are right cost of living can differ a lot. But you do agree that the average standard of living most non-Western countries have is not even remotely comparable to ours (even compared to most of what we consider poor), don't you?
of course poor countries have different lifestyles. Whats your point?
Quote:
what's the major accomplishment for reaching the $1.50-$2.00 per day level?
if you're making $0.50 a day then the accomplishment is massive.
Do you think if the minimum wage was removed in our country that it would be hard to pay someone $0.50 a day? I am trying to figure out what people think would happen if there was no minimum wage and someone could be paid whatever someone would offer. Of course perhaps competitively other people work for more and it might be more then $.50 a day, perhaps even $5.00 a day. But for sure there would be no law to stop it, that can for sure be said
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: psilynut]
#19336507 - 12/28/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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psilynut said: Perhaps if we raised minimum wage we could attract some of our loser citizens off of welfare into the farm jobs they don't want that are currently being stolen by illegals. And besides wouldnt food taste better if it was picked by American hands rather than greasy law breaking foreigner hands ? I'd pay a little more for that .
Yeah this make sense.
There are already laws against hiring illegals and paying them under minimum wage or anything at all for that matter. You are proposing we get rid of current regulations and laws to help other regulations and laws that aren't enforced?
Who is to stop people who pay illegals money that is now LEGAL TO PAY THEM because there are no minimum wage laws, so now it is even easier to hire illegals and pay them nothing, since they already expect to come be paid nothing, even they are citizens since the wage laws changed in the U.S.?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel]
#19336593 - 12/28/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your failure to make a living is driving you insane. It is not legal to pay illegal border jumping scum anything at all.
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Ran-D



Registered: 12/19/10
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel]
#19336705 - 12/28/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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imachavel said: If you think that'll stagnate democracy, to be limited on pulling out too much money out of your corporate account for personal use, that is, a quarter of a million, then you must be crazy  
I can't imagine anyone having a hard time living on that 
The thing is, multi-millionaires and billionaires don't just use their money to buy personal items. Most of them invest their money, creating new companies and jobs etc...
Edited by Ran-D (12/28/13 11:44 AM)
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psyconaught
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel]
#19336927 - 12/28/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
psyconaught said:
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Lord_McLovin said: You are right cost of living can differ a lot. But you do agree that the average standard of living most non-Western countries have is not even remotely comparable to ours (even compared to most of what we consider poor), don't you?
of course poor countries have different lifestyles. Whats your point?
Quote:
what's the major accomplishment for reaching the $1.50-$2.00 per day level?
if you're making $0.50 a day then the accomplishment is massive.
Do you think if the minimum wage was removed in our country that it would be hard to pay someone $0.50 a day? I am trying to figure out what people think would happen if there was no minimum wage and someone could be paid whatever someone would offer. Of course perhaps competitively other people work for more and it might be more then $.50 a day, perhaps even $5.00 a day. But for sure there would be no law to stop it, that can for sure be said
I'm sure there would be plenty of jobs offering $0.50 an hour or a day. Would anyone accept that job? Hell no, therefore the employer would have to increase the wages in order to be competitive in the market. I would have been more than happy to take a $5.00 an hour job in high school. But i wasn't able to get a job because of minimum wage, it priced me out of the market. So instead i created my own business in high school. Not everyone has the entrepreneurial spirit however, nor does everyone want that.
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: zappaisgod]
#19338019 - 12/28/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Your failure to make a living is driving you insane. It is not legal to pay illegal border jumping scum anything at all.
I have to fail to make a living to be on the other side of the argument? You think it's legal to pay non US citizens? A work visa is temporary, and is still a work visa. Jumping the fence and being here does not mean you have a work visa or are even granted a temporary stay of a week in the U.S., paying these people who have no proof of citizenship or visa is 100% illegal.
So if I made a good living I'd agree with you? And if I know someone who makes 200k a year who disagrees with you, then what? Just for the theory of arguing
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: imachavel]
#19338073 - 12/28/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Your failure to make a living is driving you insane. It is not legal to pay illegal border jumping scum anything at all.
I have to fail to make a living to be on the other side of the argument? You think it's legal to pay non US citizens? A work visa is temporary, and is still a work visa. Jumping the fence and being here does not mean you have a work visa or are even granted a temporary stay of a week in the U.S., paying these people who have no proof of citizenship or visa is 100% illegal.
So if I made a good living I'd agree with you? And if I know someone who makes 200k a year who disagrees with you, then what? Just for the theory of arguing
That was in reference to your previous ravings but I suggest you reread what I wrote. I'll repost it for you
"It is not legal to pay illegal border jumping scum anything at all".
If you have a work visa you are whaaaaat? Survey says: "Legal"
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imachavel
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Re: Politicians Who Want A Minimum Wage Want a Maximum Wage Too.... [Re: Ran-D]
#19338099 - 12/28/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ran-D said:
Quote:
imachavel said: If you think that'll stagnate democracy, to be limited on pulling out too much money out of your corporate account for personal use, that is, a quarter of a million, then you must be crazy  
I can't imagine anyone having a hard time living on that 
The thing is, multi-millionaires and billionaires don't just use their money to buy personal items. Most of them invest their money, creating new companies and jobs etc...
Yeah, like Donald Trump, he invested a lot of money, in a lot of other people's projects, which is why he owed hundreds of millions to the banks, because he was so generous. Oh wait no he wasn't he couldn't even use his millions for his projects it was all borrowed. It's why big companies get huge loans where if the loans aren't paid back they could end up owing tens of millions in interest payments alone, because of positive re investments instead of constantly borrowing money.
By the way, is re investing your earnings into other projects the same as personal cash for personal use? I'd imagine investments to be along the lines of re investing into a business, if even not your own. I'd even imagine it's such a useful endeavour, there might even be some type of tax credit for tons of money returned for people who make investments on large scales. I don't know for sure, but please don't quote me tax deductions and say you've never heard of a tax deduction for such a venture. A tax credit and a tax deduction is not the same thing. A credit is something the government gives you back for doing something useful to all people being a real contributor etc. For example you can get credited tons of money just for using solar panels, or doing research and development on new and improved products, or get r&d credits simply for putting in new windows that retain heat in your office building that if beneficial to the development of society advancing. Many credits don't apply to all situations but a lot of people don't even know about them.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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