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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: EddYerb]
    #19329479 - 12/26/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EddYerb said:
There is a limit to wealth.

What is wealth at the end of the day? I assume it to be earthly materials. If it is material goods such as food and products then there clearly is somewhat of a limit. There are only so many resources on this Earth and there is only so much space to grow food/ other commodities.

Once you start to factor in things like nature parks that take up space and would be consider by many to be a huge loss if they disappeared the limit to wealth becomes more obvious. We can only manage our land and resources in so many ways.

I don't know what exactly the limit of wealth is.. But there clearly is a limit when we have such things as a limited amount of energy on Earth or (probably) stars in the universe.

To believe that there is no limit to wealth is a dangerous mistake.




Bullshit.  What intrinsic value does a rock of bauxite have?  Virtually nil.  But with a little tweaking it becomes useful out of nowhere.  Sand.  Common thing of no value.  Tweak it a bit and it's a computer chip worth more than it's weight in gold.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19330824 - 12/26/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know why anyone on minimum wage would not be incentivized to get off minimum wage by learning something else.  Better to suffer a few years in a trade school or university while bussing tables at the cafeteria than to bus tables at the cafeteria for a lifetime.

My first job, actually at more than minimum wage, was in a sawmill.  My forearms where like iron from flipping boards all day, and my body ached at night. 

After a few months, all I dreamt about at night was the endless clatter of boards on the chain from a re-saw coming by me, which i flipped and inspected and sorted, and in my dreams I saw the boards going by.

I thought fucking son of a bitch, I can't possibly do this my whole life, because I don't want to die and have my last thoughts be the sound of the mill and images of boards.

What a waste of a fucking life. 

That's why I did something about it.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/19/10
Posts: 16,311
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19332217 - 12/27/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
I don't know why anyone on minimum wage would not be incentivized to get off minimum wage by learning something else. 




Because they would have to step out of their comfort zone.


Honestly though I once worked on an organic farm for minimum wage and that was the most enjoyable job I've had so far. Beautiful area, chill boss, could smoke bowls all day as long as I worked fast. My most recent job was closer to $13 an hour and honestly I think I'd trade it to go back to that farm.

Not everyone places value on diamonds and shit. Nature and freedom are the things I value most.


Edited by Ran-D (12/27/13 09:15 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: Ran-D]
    #19333561 - 12/27/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So go back.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
High on Spite
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Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19334933 - 12/27/13 11:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
My first job, actually at more than minimum wage, was in a sawmill.  My forearms where like iron from flipping boards all day, and my body ached at night. 





Yeah well things were different back in the days of the industrial revolution :smirk:

Seems like the nimber of well paying jobs is going down, as the price of school goes up.

I'd certainly be interested in a trade I can learn, what would you recommend? (serious question, I'm really trying to get my life on track)


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #19334966 - 12/27/13 11:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
My first job, actually at more than minimum wage, was in a sawmill.  My forearms where like iron from flipping boards all day, and my body ached at night. 





Yeah well things were different back in the days of the industrial revolution :smirk:

Seems like the nimber of well paying jobs is going down, as the price of school goes up.

I'd certainly be interested in a trade I can learn, what would you recommend? (serious question, I'm really trying to get my life on track)




A machinist, a welder, a pipe fitter, an operator, an electrician, a mechanic, a carpenter an HVAC Technician .........The list goes on but I'm sure you get the point


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19335003 - 12/27/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My next youngest brother is an example of a person with no formal schooling but a trade.  He is basically an electrician/millwright because though he isn't good at school he is really good at things that require 'hands'  He's up to  6 figures finally. 

My brother in law was an electrician working for the government at Sunspot solar observatory--they fucked him with 19 years and laid him off several years ago.  So he took his truck and started doing electricians work, since he had the license.

After a couple of years my sister took a check from a contract he did and after he paid his help and overhead, they had 350K left in the bank. 

Now he has his own shop 3 or 4 employees, gets a lot of contracts, and is also the mayor pro tem or the city I live in and also on the city council.

Pretty good for a guy I used to trip my ass off on acid with in high school....:awesomenod::grin:

But dont misunderstand what it takes.  He sweats blood to make the money he does.


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InvisibleEchro
Psychedelic Nihilist
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: EddYerb]
    #19335073 - 12/28/13 12:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

EddYerb said:
There is a limit to wealth.

What is wealth at the end of the day? I assume it to be earthly materials. If it is material goods such as food and products then there clearly is somewhat of a limit. There are only so many resources on this Earth and there is only so much space to grow food/ other commodities.

Once you start to factor in things like nature parks that take up space and would be consider by many to be a huge loss if they disappeared the limit to wealth becomes more obvious. We can only manage our land and resources in so many ways.

I don't know what exactly the limit of wealth is.. But there clearly is a limit when we have such things as a limited amount of energy on Earth or (probably) stars in the universe.

To believe that there is no limit to wealth is a dangerous mistake.




Wealth is in the eye of the beholder; Value is subjective. So long as there is a human want or desire to be satiated, there will always exist the capacity for individuals to produce wealth.

In regards to physical commodities, the Earth isn't on the brink of depletion. The oil wells have yet to dry up. Plus most global environmental ills are the byproduct of State management. The great majority of deforestation is the product of Government ownership of forests & the leasing of logging rights to companies with no vested interest in up keeping their stock value. The destruction of the rain forests in South America is largely done by poor farmers who have little economic alternatives. The list goes on & on. If the pretentious moralists & interventionists weren't standing in the way this whole time I'm sure we would be mining out in space by now. But instead we've left the technology in the hands of a bloated Bureaucracy until recently.
Humans are far more capable & innovative than most people give them credit for.
The great bulk of human existence has consisted of a bunch of self loathing, human hating scum legislating their visions of morality & keeping us in the dark age. We have the power to live as Gods, we should embrace that empower. Not fear it. Or supplant it with moralistic pretensions & appeals to struggle. Life is meaningless, why try to dumb it down for the people that can't cope with that? Why be held back by members of the species who are still worshiping ideals & abstractions?


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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Offlinehockeyplyr1057
Music Lover
Male


Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 573
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: Enigma1]
    #19339889 - 12/29/13 01:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enigma1 said:
Why do people think raising minimum is going to do any good prices are just going to go up and they are going to be trying to raise minimum wage again in 2 years. Why not lower fuel cost  Sorry had to vent:mad2:




Are you not aware that oil is sold on the international market? You can't just lower the cost of gasoline...


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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. -Gandalf


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Invisibleelax420
Anal Destroyer
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: hockeyplyr1057]
    #19339996 - 12/29/13 02:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The price of gas is dictated by supply and demand, not the government :lol:

The problem with raising Min Wage nationally is that it hurts people out of work, and puts a lot of part time workers out of work entirely. It seems like it would be a pretty reckless thing to do in the current economy, with unemployment as high as it is.


Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If you suck you should suffer.  If you're awesome you should reap the rewards.  Seems right to me.




Lots of shitty people inherit money and never suffer.



That would be a problem if there is a fixed amount of wealth




Check out John Maynard Keynes, and Paris Hilton over here.

Its funny how much you worship money, for a blue collar kind of guy.
Most people are born into the social class they will spend their life in. There is some vertical mobility but not a lot. Our system kinda sucks like that.....


I work low paying jobs because I’m in college, i would be interested in doing real work that actually pays, i just have no idea of how to get into it. Up until then ill either graduate and hopefully get a good job, or continue folding pants with the best of em at macys :lol: guess if college turns out to be a flop ill look into the trades.

There is a family friend that makes like 50$ an hour doing pipe fitting. Shit ild love to do his companies bitch work for like 10-12 an hour. Beats this 8.50/hr bullshit.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: elax420]
    #19340675 - 12/29/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Shit I make 10 an hour working for my college all I do is sweep floors and get high :rofl:


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19341386 - 12/29/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

i make $15 an hour, never went to college, graduated high school less than a year ago and am location independent because i work from my laptop :billymaythumbup:


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,375
Loc: You get banned for saying that Flag
Last seen: 12 hours, 1 minute
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #19342430 - 12/29/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
I don't know why anyone on minimum wage would not be incentivized to get off minimum wage by learning something else.  Better to suffer a few years in a trade school or university while bussing tables at the cafeteria than to bus tables at the cafeteria for a lifetime.

My first job, actually at more than minimum wage, was in a sawmill.  My forearms where like iron from flipping boards all day, and my body ached at night. 

After a few months, all I dreamt about at night was the endless clatter of boards on the chain from a re-saw coming by me, which i flipped and inspected and sorted, and in my dreams I saw the boards going by.

I thought fucking son of a bitch, I can't possibly do this my whole life, because I don't want to die and have my last thoughts be the sound of the mill and images of boards.

What a waste of a fucking life. 

That's why I did something about it.




wow it'd be so interesting if no in the world took a job that payed minimum wage, so only high end careers existed. Let's see, I don't think we would have cereal, cars, lamps, food, computers, bottled water, chefs, grocery store check out employees, people to sweep a floor, mines, medical equipment, plastic, air plane parts, shipping, Walmart, Burger King, as you said no wood to build houses there would be no sawmills, no boats, no restaurants what so ever, no parks, no windows, no wheels, no bicycles, no gas stations, corn, meat, apples, oranges, broccoli, chocolate, soda, movies, aspirin, shovels, copper tubes, glasses, forks, straws, marble floor, tobacco, tractors, coffee, cameras, milk, rail roads, air conditioners, electronics at all, solar panels, etc.

Oh wait that's right :facepalm: there is no large company in THE WORLD that produces ANYTHING that people need just about every day that doesn't hire people to work at minimum wage. What are those employees thinking? They think doing the THE ACTUAL LABOUR that is the responsible reason that anything we use daily even exists is a reason to want to live comfortably and get paid more? Well, those sons of bitches don't understand at all, they are lucky to have jobs at all, the company owners are the brains behind at all and well, if they decided to, they could just fire every single person and run the ENTIRE COMPANY ON THEIR OWN

To think, people would actually QUESTION $7 an hour :stoned:


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: imachavel]
    #19342477 - 12/29/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

low paying jobs are supposed to be entry level positions so workers can gain the experience necessary in order to get the high paying positions. Of course eventually someone will get tired of working a low paying job and attempt to move up, and when they do someone else entering the workforce will fill said low paying job. Not sure what your point is, of course we need low skilled low paying positions.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
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Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: psyconaught]
    #19342535 - 12/29/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
low paying jobs are supposed to be entry level positions so workers can gain the experience necessary in order to get the high paying positions. Of course eventually someone will get tired of working a low paying job and attempt to move up, and when they do someone else entering the workforce will fill said low paying job. Not sure what your point is, of course we need low skilled low paying positions.





The only problem with that is, we don't make anything here anymore, the fat cats send all the good jobs overseas and all we're left with is Service Industry, minimum wage, jobs.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: sweeper54]
    #19342583 - 12/29/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

no the shit jobs are going oversee's. There are plenty of good jobs to be had here, there are currently 3.2 million unfilled vocational positions in this country. Welders, pipe fitters, mechanics, etc. All of those jobs are fantastic and have awesome starting wages, however no one in this country is trained for those positions because the trades have been demonized. There is a huge skills gap. Also a lot of people are stuck in the past and are not able to cope with a rapidly changing skills requirement in the economy. There is also a shortage of tech sector workers, coders, programmers, electrical engineers etc.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: sweeper54]
    #19342773 - 12/29/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
no the shit jobs are going oversee's. There are plenty of good jobs to be had here, there are currently 3.2 million unfilled vocational positions in this country. Welders, pipe fitters, mechanics, etc. All of those jobs are fantastic and have awesome starting wages, however no one in this country is trained for those positions because the trades have been demonized. There is a huge skills gap. Also a lot of people are stuck in the past and are not able to cope with a rapidly changing skills requirement in the economy. There is also a shortage of tech sector workers, coders, programmers, electrical engineers etc.



Those are actually traditional skill jobs but the cunts entering the labor force these days think that the only acceptable positions involve manipulating a computer keyboard.  The pussies refuse to do anything that is remotely physically uncomfortable.
Quote:

sweeper54 said:

Quote:

sweeper54 said:


The only problem with that is, we don't make anything here anymore, the fat cats send all the good jobs overseas and all we're left with is Service Industry, minimum wage, jobs.




The fat cats are not sending any jobs overseas.  The consumer is.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19342806 - 12/29/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

agreed the vocational positions are traditional. I was referencing the computer science related fields in regards to a changing economy.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Invisibleelax420
Anal Destroyer
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Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19344259 - 12/29/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Shit I make 10 an hour working for my college all I do is sweep floors and get high :rofl:



ahhh god damnit.


Thats exactly the kind of job i want :lolsy:

I always get shitty summer/school jobs because of drug testing. How fucked up is it that only shitty jobs drug test? My cousin never smoked weed until he started his career.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
Re: Minimum Wage raise Why not lower gas instead. [Re: sweeper54]
    #19344357 - 12/30/13 12:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sweeper54 said:



The only problem with that is, we don't make anything here anymore, the fat cats send all the good jobs overseas and all we're left with is Service Industry, minimum wage, jobs.




They do?  Hmm, I must be an anomaly.  I make into six figures, and my company is dying to find more people to pay like this.  :smirk:


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