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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19308846 - 12/21/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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Crystal G said:
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zappaisgod said: I got an idea. The government stops giving them anything at all. Wages will rise. Welfare subsidizes low wages and encourages bums to have children they can't support.
Why do you say wages will rise with no welfare?
Welfare subsidizes employers who pay low wages when their employees don't have to hold out for more money.
There is no such thing as society. It is a fiction for the intellectually lazy
If I recall welfare was created to supplement low wages, not the other way around. What is the economic incentive for companies to start paying more simply because welfare is gone?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19308849 - 12/21/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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Patlal said:
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Gilgamesh18 said:
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Patlal said: Very interesting. Its 16 minutes long so it for people that have some time and will to learn.
Studying people's behavior is amazing
The we hear rich people say that the poor think they are entitled to stuff...
Its socialist propoganda
Of course, once you include science in something, it becomes propaganda. Good old conservative talk.
Sociology is not science. Never has been
Sociology is the scientific study of human social behavior and human association and results of social activities. Its not mathematics due to the fact no brain is exactly the same, but you can definitely make accurate predictions of behavior based on the results of sociology.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 30 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19308851 - 12/21/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Oddly enough you live in a structure. I can go 5 miles in any direction and find communities that are completely and irrevocably different from mine, different mores, different traditions, different lifestyles. Almost nothing in common, both up and down on the income scale. There is no society.
that's society 
way to twist words into fallacy.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Crystal G]
#19308854 - 12/21/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said:
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zappaisgod said:
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Crystal G said:
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zappaisgod said: I got an idea. The government stops giving them anything at all. Wages will rise. Welfare subsidizes low wages and encourages bums to have children they can't support.
Why do you say wages will rise with no welfare?
Welfare subsidizes employers who pay low wages when their employees don't have to hold out for more money.
There is no such thing as society. It is a fiction for the intellectually lazy
If I recall welfare was created to supplement low wages, not the other way around. What is the economic incentive for companies to start paying more simply because welfare is gone?
Welfare was created to provide a temporary assist for people to get back to work. Now all you need to do to get permanent welfare is squirt out a kid. Are you really so naive as to believe that the intention of a law establishes its efficacy?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Patlal]
#19308860 - 12/21/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Patlal said:
Sociology is the scientific study of human social behavior and human association and results of social activities. Its not mathematics due to the fact no brain is exactly the same, but you can definitely make accurate predictions of behavior based on the results of sociology.
There is no such thing as human society. Psychology can encompass the study of human social interactions and does. Sociology is complete bullshit
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: akira_akuma]
#19308864 - 12/21/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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akira_akuma said:
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zappaisgod said: Oddly enough you live in a structure. I can go 5 miles in any direction and find communities that are completely and irrevocably different from mine, different mores, different traditions, different lifestyles. Almost nothing in common, both up and down on the income scale. There is no society.
that's society 
way to twist words into fallacy.
I twisted nothing.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 30 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19308881 - 12/21/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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sure ya did, Zap. you said society isn't a thing, and explained how there is people and places all over that have different ways of doing things because of the different things they do.
you said, essentially, that that isn't sociology; but THAT IT IS... hence your twisting.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 14 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19308918 - 12/21/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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Patlal said:
Sociology is the scientific study of human social behavior and human association and results of social activities. Its not mathematics due to the fact no brain is exactly the same, but you can definitely make accurate predictions of behavior based on the results of sociology.
There is no such thing as human society. Psychology can encompass the study of human social interactions and does. Sociology is complete bullshit
There are times where you make brilliant comments, then there are times like these when you say that there is no such thing as human society...
Do you not live on planet earth??? 192 countries, all dividedd in states and provinces, all linked together by the economy, altruism on a dayly basis, people interacting constantly with each other, constant reproduction for the survival of the race.
How the hell can you say that there is no such thing as a society? Either you're trolling or you are extremely closed-minded/stubborn.
Sociology isn't bullshit. Sociology is the reason why marketing works, it's the reason police interogation works, its the reason there are signs on the road, it's the reason why some similar products succeeds and some don't. The internet is the greatest sociology experiment in the world! We learned so much about human behavior because of it I couldn't even start listing all the social trends and specific human behaviors that were discovered because of it...
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19309025 - 12/21/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
Welfare was created to provide a temporary assist for people to get back to work. Now all you need to do to get permanent welfare is squirt out a kid. Are you really so naive as to believe that the intention of a law establishes its efficacy?
I really highly doubt people are popping out children just to collect welfare. If I recall my statistics a 4 person household receives less than $400 a month, hardly a profit and hardly worth the tedious labor of raising children at all.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Crystal G]
#19309070 - 12/21/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
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zappaisgod said:
Welfare was created to provide a temporary assist for people to get back to work. Now all you need to do to get permanent welfare is squirt out a kid. Are you really so naive as to believe that the intention of a law establishes its efficacy?
I really highly doubt people are popping out children just to collect welfare. If I recall my statistics a 4 person household receives less than $400 a month, hardly a profit and hardly worth the tedious labor of raising children at all.
Zappa has a big point here. Yes people pop out children just for welfare. Especially people with addictions. Lots of people on welfare have kids for money.
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Channeling_Spirit



Registered: 12/19/13
Posts: 802
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: dontknow]
#19309077 - 12/21/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I loved this video. I have nothing else to add
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Patlal]
#19309096 - 12/21/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
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Crystal G said:
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zappaisgod said:
Welfare was created to provide a temporary assist for people to get back to work. Now all you need to do to get permanent welfare is squirt out a kid. Are you really so naive as to believe that the intention of a law establishes its efficacy?
I really highly doubt people are popping out children just to collect welfare. If I recall my statistics a 4 person household receives less than $400 a month, hardly a profit and hardly worth the tedious labor of raising children at all.
Zappa has a big point here. Yes people pop out children just for welfare. Especially people with addictions. Lots of people on welfare have kids for money.
I think there's a big difference between having children accidentally while you were fucking high, and scheming a plan to defraud the government by purposely having children to get high. There's clearly much better and more advantageous ways of getting money (a lot more money) without going through the whole ordeal of having children, such as prostitution or stealing or pawning off your things.
A lot of women who are prostitutes might accidentally end up getting knocked up due to what they do. It doesn't mean they intentionally meant to get pregnant.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 14 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Crystal G]
#19309134 - 12/21/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
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Patlal said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
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zappaisgod said:
Welfare was created to provide a temporary assist for people to get back to work. Now all you need to do to get permanent welfare is squirt out a kid. Are you really so naive as to believe that the intention of a law establishes its efficacy?
I really highly doubt people are popping out children just to collect welfare. If I recall my statistics a 4 person household receives less than $400 a month, hardly a profit and hardly worth the tedious labor of raising children at all.
Zappa has a big point here. Yes people pop out children just for welfare. Especially people with addictions. Lots of people on welfare have kids for money.
I think there's a big difference between having children accidentally while you were fucking high, and scheming a plan to defraud the government by purposely having children to get high. There's clearly much better and more advantageous ways of getting money (a lot more money) without going through the whole ordeal of having children, such as prostitution or stealing or pawning off your things.
A lot of women who are prostitutes might accidentally end up getting knocked up due to what they do. It doesn't mean they intentionally meant to get pregnant.
Trust me, some of them are scheming. There are several cases of underfed children and mistreated children because the parents only had them for the extra cash. Its a sad reality.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Patlal]
#19309149 - 12/21/13 07:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Patlal said: Trust me, some of them are scheming. There are several cases of underfed children and mistreated children because the parents only had them for the extra cash. Its a sad reality.
No. They might USE their benefits for drugs because their addiction is compelling them to feed their addiction first instead of their kids, but that in no way means that they had the kids intentionally just to obtain that money.
Also, it might be different in Canada because your government benefits are a lot better, but in America families get paid ridiculously low.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Crystal G]
#19309173 - 12/21/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I mean, do you know how much each extra child gets you in America? Only $100 a month for each extra child. Sorry, but no woman is going to put herself through the pain of child labor, let alone the pain of raising a child, for a measly $100 a month. Even if you were the poorest, most drugged-out woman in America you would not do that. Any crackho can make that money in 30 minutes with a blowjob. LOL
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RiderOnTheStorm
Reject thug culture



Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 1,855
Loc: Hug a hippie today
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Crystal G]
#19309241 - 12/21/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're wrong, I've met two people who both talked candidly with me about how they were going to have another kid to get increased benefits, and it's substantially more than $100. It's about $200 per month more in food stamps, one of their families was getting $800 per month. There are additional benefits that also go up with each child, and this guy would always make sure he made under a certain amount of income doing sales, so that it wouldn't affect their benefits and they could maximize their rake while still having insurance from the job.
These were employees of mine that told me this, makes me wonder how many didn't say it.
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iarphairc
Stranger Danger



Registered: 06/26/09
Posts: 400
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19309370 - 12/21/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
There is no such thing as society. It is a fiction for the intellectually lazy
This is among the dumbest things I've ever read
-------------------- The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant- Maximilien Robespierre
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 30 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
#19309631 - 12/21/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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RiderOnTheStorm said: You're wrong, I've met two people who both talked candidly with me about how they were going to have another kid to get increased benefits, and it's substantially more than $100. It's about $200 per month more in food stamps, one of their families was getting $800 per month. There are additional benefits that also go up with each child, and this guy would always make sure he made under a certain amount of income doing sales, so that it wouldn't affect their benefits and they could maximize their rake while still having insurance from the job.
These were employees of mine that told me this, makes me wonder how many didn't say it.
ya, not the same thing.
no wonder people are doing this shit, this idea is spreading like wildfire... now you don't even have to be a poor negligent drug addict to wanna get that extra 200$!
you just want it, so have a baby! those two employees you talked to... were they junkies by any chance? or was this just some dummy who heard of this idea where "hey i'll just get on welfare and have another child and i'll get paid; need the money!"
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 5 days
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: akira_akuma]
#19309695 - 12/21/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I... don't even understand how $200 would even BARELY begin to increase a profit for a child. Even if healthcare and food is covered, diapers AREN'T. Diapers are like what, $22 a pack? How many packs would you go through in a week? That $200 would basically MAYBE cover your diaper expenses, but maybe it wouldn't even cover that. And then there's the matter of clothes and shoes and baby shampoos and diaper rash powder...
I really am failing to see how a family could possibly turn a profit even with $200 extra each month. Maybe somebody can step in and draw out the math for me here.
Most families are not making $800 a month in welfare. Maybe $800 total, if you include EBT, WIC, MediCal, AND the federal assistance. The average monthly income for temporary welfare assistance was something like $347 for a family of 3-4.
Edited by Crystal G (12/21/13 10:12 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Here's a gret TED video about how money changes people's behavior for the worst. [Re: Crystal G]
#19309741 - 12/21/13 10:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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the fact that some idiot that thinks it works, does it... that what makes it "a thing".
boy, it's gonna keep snow balling, isn't it? soon we'll hear presidents speaking on "the child welfare problem of America"
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