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OfflineDeviate
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Tony Parsons appreciation thread
    #19303546 - 12/20/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I believe that Tony Parsons has the Word. He is the real deal as far as I am concerned, what is so revolutionary about his message is how he refuses to give you any kind of spiritual techniques or even acknowledge that you are a separate person.

This is huge because its so easy for the ego to take the teachings from even a great non dual teacher and turn them into another game just because the teacher says that meditation can help for instance. This affirms that there is someone there who can be helped by meditation and it allows for one to go on seeking.

Tony Parsons says there is no one. There's just this. There is a human being with a functioning brain that responds to stimuli. Seeing happens. Movement happens. You hear a noise. You feel your body breathing. You scratch an itch. But there is no one doing any of this. It just happens. The brain continues to function just fine without imagining there is a "me" in there doing anything.

So that is the essence of non duality. There is not someone living their life in a world and seeking enlightenment. There is only aliveness. And its the fullness we all seek. It's what Jesus called the Kingdom of God and it is at hand.

Many are familiar with this idea, that Jesus and/or Buddha taught about a spiritual state of love or enlightenment and yet most of these people think they are individuals who need to spend years in meditation stilling their minds to realize it. Tony Parsons says that thinking happens. If you spend years stilling your mind, that's all part of the dream of individuality. It has nothing to do with liberation.

Now one question one might ask is if you listen to him and understand what he is saying, why do you still feel like you are an individual? This is because there is contracted energy which must release in order for you to become free of individuality. Realizing it it intellectually isnt enough. And yet just hearing him talk I can feel so many of my ego's thought patterns just falling away from me. Its like a plain where the engine is cut off. It will still fly for a while but eventually it will come crashing down.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate] * 1
    #19303680 - 12/20/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And yet just hearing him talk I can feel so many of my ego's thought patterns just falling away from me. Its like a plain where the engine is cut off. It will still fly for a while but eventually it will come crashing down.

I can honestly say that I've felt like this dozens of times in my life.  But in the end it was all still just thinking rather than realizing anything and in the end I was still stuck feeling separate just like you are.  These are the little carrots we use to keep believing that we are about to become enlightened imo.

There's just this. There is a human being with a functioning brain that responds to stimuli. Seeing happens. Movement happens. You hear a noise. You feel your body breathing. You scratch an itch. But there is no one doing any of this. It just happens. The brain continues to function just fine without imagining there is a "me" in there doing anything.

This is somewhat interesting.  I basically agree until you get to the last sentence.  I know of no one who does not function without this idea of a me so it would be hard to tell if we would function just fine without that concept.  We might, we might just be fully instinctual like a lizard but we don't just have a lizard brain anymore. We have a mid brain and a neo cortex that does shit and that shit helps us survive and one of those things is to create a "me".  So in the end this guy is just speculating because my guess is he still feels separate and has me concept.  If he has a gf she'll tell you all about it. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Icelander]
    #19303863 - 12/20/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


I can honestly say that I've felt like this dozens of times in my life.  But in the end it was all still just thinking rather than realizing anything and in the end I was still stuck feeling separate just like you are.  These are the little carrots we use to keep believing that we are about to become enlightened imo.




Believe me, I know all about the "i am about to become enlightened carrot". That doesn't mean its not a good thing to lose egoic thought patterns though and in this case, said patterns are usually along the lines of "if I would just concentrate a little harder, or let go a bit more, I owuld be enlghtened". Sure it might not ever result in liberation but I still think his teaching is great because its not adding more stuff to me. its not telling me, ok just meditate like this and you will get it.

I am past the stage where I need new meditation techniques and prayers. I have already learned to control my mind through the prayer of Jesus. I can pray that prayer and have it fill my mind to the exclusion of all other thoughts. This is impressive but its not liberation. I have all these seeking energy which needs to get released.

Quote:


This is somewhat interesting.  I basically agree until you get to the last sentence.  I know of no one who does not function without this idea of a me so it would be hard to tell if we would function just fine without that concept.  We might, we might just be fully instinctual like a lizard but we don't just have a lizard brain anymore. We have a mid brain and a neo cortex that does shit and that shit helps us survive and one of those things is to create a "me".  So in the end this guy is just speculating because my guess is he still feels separate and has me concept.  If he has a gf she'll tell you all about it. :lol:




No he is not speculating. That much I am certain of. He is preaching the Word. Of course he has a me concept but he does not experience the me concept as having its own free will and choice. Thats why I am saying hes the real deal. Hes not someone who has had a glimpse of awakening and now speculates about it, he is speaking from the natural state.

Oh and he is a married to a wife and interestingly awakening happened to her shortly after it happened to him. I wonder if this is because, as husband and wife, they had some kind of energetic connection that caused her energy to expand when his did.


Edited by Deviate (12/20/13 04:56 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19304099 - 12/20/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's something seriously wrong with what you are telling us imo.

I have already learned to control my mind through the prayer of Jesus. I can pray that prayer and have it fill my mind to the exclusion of all other thoughts. This is impressive but its not liberation. I have all these seeking energy which needs to get released.

In the last several weeks you have posted a couple of threads on how depressed you are etc.  If you were able to control your thoughts as you are claiming depression would not be a problem for you.

No he is not speculating. That much I am certain of. He is preaching the Word.

You are certain of someone you've never met and do not know personally based on something you have read by them or a video you've seen?  IMO you're hooked into a desperate true believer mode and it's runs through almost all your posting here. The truth comes out however at times and you admit to just how unhappy and depressed you actually are.

I'm not posting this for your benefit as I have found you unable to logically or critically look at these things. (others may though)  You even admitted that you don't use logic in these areas.  IMO you're very likely going to be forever spinning your wheels and going nowhere.  But who knows. :shrug:  Carry on if you must.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Icelander]
    #19304199 - 12/20/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There's nothing to believe in, there's just this. I can tell from watching his videos that he is speaking from experience and not speculating. If you would watch them you would be able to tell also, or not. It doesn't matter.

Quote:


In the last several weeks you have posted a couple of threads on how depressed you are etc.  If you were able to control your thoughts as you are claiming depression would not be a problem for you.




Why are you so short sighted? I can control my thoughts with effort, as soon as the effort is relaxed, depression returns. This itself is depressing. This is the whole dilemma of ascetic practices, which i have posted about before. You can impose extreme discipline upon yourself, as many aesthetics have, but it doesn't lead to enlightenment. Then there is a big let down. I have been in spiritual ecstasy through the Jesus prayer. So what? it doesn't last. What use is it? It takes tremendous effort to get there and then no matter how wonderful it feels, it never lasts. It's super depressing.

Also, it can sometimes actually be harmful to complete control ones mind through a method like the Jesus Prayer. I found that that I could supress thoughts and feelings through my practice of unceasing prayer. this isnt necessarily good. Its not a natural state. The natural state is one of relaxed openness, not rigid conformity to a man made prayer or mantra or any man made spiritual technique.


Edited by Deviate (12/20/13 06:05 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19304302 - 12/20/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not particularly short sighted.  I don't even use glasses. :lol:

I have already learned to control my mind through the prayer of Jesus.

I was taking you at your word here.  But I'm impressed that you are coming to grips with the uselessness of things like that prayer.  But I wouldn't just jump onto the next thing without some type of a cautious approach.  Still this guy is probably a step up.  Good luck with it then. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19304338 - 12/20/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't understand how one can post about how much healing they are in search of, then proselytize their ego and deny what they just said yesterday..:confused:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Icelander]
    #19304441 - 12/20/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm not particularly short sighted.  I don't even use glasses. :lol:

I have already learned to control my mind through the prayer of Jesus.

I was taking you at your word here.  But I'm impressed that you are coming to grips with the uselessness of things like that prayer.  But I wouldn't just jump onto the next thing without some type of a cautious approach.  Still this guy is probably a step up.  Good luck with it then. :thumbup:




Theres nothing to jump onto as far as I am concerned. I just see now that all forms of spiritual seeking are forms of spiritual materialism.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19304699 - 12/20/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well I agree with that. I've been basically saying it for a long time here.  If you look at my sig you can see something similar and basically where I'm heading.    Anyway maybe this is just the ticket for you. Good luck.

This from his website:  There is absolutely nothing to attain except the realisation that there is absolutely nothing to attain.

Basically the first line of my sig. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19306267 - 12/21/13 03:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I haven't read much of Parsons, only heard about an hour of him speaking but i like what i hear & like his approach, he's relentless in his pointing to the unknown nature of What Is, i appreciate him

The only thing i could critisize him for, which i think you will appreciate, is he neglects 'the story' that he was a seeker for something like 40 years doing all the traditional practices, going to many teachers, and now he says they didn't help him at all, ultimately he's right they didn't help a 'him' as ultimately there is no individual separate person who needed help, but he admits that individuality or the idea of it somehow fell away after so many years of seeking, and like you pointed out in a recent thread, without doing all those purifying practices he wouldn't have finally 'got it', even if ultimately there is nothing that needs purifying & nothing to get... he also says that most of the other non-duality teachers are full of it cause they sell stuff on their websites & are actively seeking to help people, and claims he has nothing for sale, but if you check out his website low & behold he's got books for sale, he gives meetings he charges admittance for around the world... it appears he is interested in making money & helping people aswell, i don't think there's anything wrong with this, but he gives the impression he is somehow different from the other teachers, that his message is radical & original, when it isn't, no thought at anywhere at any time is ever original

Saying this i think he's great & if you resonate with him you should look into what he's saying more, or if you can do what he says & don't look into anything anymore as anything 'you' do will just further energize the illusion of individual separation, you may think going to a Satsang or a Parsons meeting is just more 'spiritual materialism' but if your ego can take it i highly recommend going to a meeting

I think inbetween your Christian Gnostic Devotion & your interest in Non-Dual teachings your well on your way dude, even though there is no you, or way, or dude :grin:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #19306518 - 12/21/13 05:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

he also says that most of the other non-duality teachers are full of it cause they sell stuff on their websites & are actively seeking to help people, and claims he has nothing for sale, but if you check out his website low & behold he's got books for sale, he gives meetings he charges admittance for around the world... it appears he is interested in making money & helping people aswell, i don't think there's anything wrong with this, but he gives the impression he is somehow different from the other teachers, that his message is radical & original, when it isn't, no thought at anywhere at any time is ever original

:haha:  Thanks for pointing this out.  As usual with just a little rational investigation the truth rears it's soulful face.

In other words, he's just another guy selling a product.  His beliefs.  Whether right or not.  And the human comedy/drama goes on. :monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #19306520 - 12/21/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Go ahead, stick with Tony Parsons, remain deluded.  Just another false teacher with a false gospel.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: fivepointer]
    #19306571 - 12/21/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Says the Gospel of Fivepointer:monkeydance::monkeydance::monkeydance::braindamage::monkeydance::monkeydance::monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19306840 - 12/21/13 08:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He was one of Osho's drones. 'Nuff said.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #19307226 - 12/21/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
...& behold he's got books for sale, he gives meetings he charges admittance for around the world... it appears he is interested in making money & helping people as well, i don't think there's anything wrong with this, but he gives the impression he is somehow different from the other teachers, that his message is radical & original, when it isn't, no thought at anywhere at any time is ever original



Good post, Chronic.  The whole thing.

Yes, there's an internal inconsistency in calling out the priests and gurus for capitalizing off of spirituality while at the same time you yourself are making money by calling them out for that.  Everyone's gotta earn a living, though.  I don't begrudge anyone for trying to earn a living.

Your post also highlights the internal inconsistency in someone declaring that everyone should stop pursuing enlightenment because, after 40 years of pursuing it, that "someone" has concluded that there is no enlightenment to pursue.

Well, duh...  If you hadn't pursued it for those 40 years, how would you have attained the realization that there's nothing to pursue?

Tricky stuff, this.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: fivepointer]
    #19307381 - 12/21/13 10:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

fivepointer said:
Go ahead, stick with Tony Parsons, remain deluded.  Just another false teacher with a false gospel.




I thought you would like Tony Parsons. He basically says there is nothing you can do, no free will etc. That's what you believe right? That those who are predestined for salvation will be saved and those who are not will not and there is nothing anyone can do?


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Chronic7]
    #19307590 - 12/21/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
I haven't read much of Parsons, only heard about an hour of him speaking but i like what i hear & like his approach, he's relentless in his pointing to the unknown nature of What Is, i appreciate him

The only thing i could critisize him for, which i think you will appreciate, is he neglects 'the story' that he was a seeker for something like 40 years doing all the traditional practices, going to many teachers, and now he says they didn't help him at all, ultimately he's right they didn't help a 'him' as ultimately there is no individual separate person who needed help, but he admits that individuality or the idea of it somehow fell away after so many years of seeking, and like you pointed out in a recent thread, without doing all those purifying practices he wouldn't have finally 'got it', even if ultimately there is nothing that needs purifying & nothing to get... he also says that most of the other non-duality teachers are full of it cause they sell stuff on their websites & are actively seeking to help people, and claims he has nothing for sale, but if you check out his website low & behold he's got books for sale, he gives meetings he charges admittance for around the world... it appears he is interested in making money & helping people aswell, i don't think there's anything wrong with this, but he gives the impression he is somehow different from the other teachers, that his message is radical & original, when it isn't, no thought at anywhere at any time is ever original

Saying this i think he's great & if you resonate with him you should look into what he's saying more, or if you can do what he says & don't look into anything anymore as anything 'you' do will just further energize the illusion of individual separation, you may think going to a Satsang or a Parsons meeting is just more 'spiritual materialism' but if your ego can take it i highly recommend going to a meeting

I think inbetween your Christian Gnostic Devotion & your interest in Non-Dual teachings your well on your way dude, even though there is no you, or way, or dude :grin:





Yeah well I try to enjoy the seeking I guess. I mean I could look at it like, I have done all these things, I jointed Catholic Church, I prayed so much, I spent weeks in solitary meditation and all that time what I was looking for was this. I didn't have to do anything.

And yet if I just not done anything, I doubt I would have ever made it to point of realizing I didnt have to do anything. So we can look at all the seeking as useless, or we could look at it as a fun game we play. Thats part of why I wanted to join a church. Church is at least a semi-enjoyable way to seek. There is nice music, there is fellowship, etc. Its definitely better (for me at least) than sitting still watching my breathing for 3 hours.

Maybe thats what we should focus on more. As long as you cant stop seeking, find enjoyable ways to express your seeking. It doesnt have to be church, you could go camping or take a hike in the wilderness every weekend or whatever, just as long as its a regular thing and not something you only do once in a while (I am a firm believer in regular repitition) That way, instead of looking back on your seeking as wasted time, you can look at it as just part of your dream of being an individual.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19308250 - 12/21/13 02:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
fivepointer said:
Go ahead, stick with Tony Parsons, remain deluded.  Just another false teacher with a false gospel.




I thought you would like Tony Parsons. He basically says there is nothing you can do, no free will etc. That's what you believe right? That those who are predestined for salvation will be saved and those who are not will not and there is nothing anyone can do?




The process of salvation does not happen in a vacuum.  The gospel must be heard and applied to the heart, and believed.  No such thing as being saved and not believing the gospel at the time of conversion.


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: fivepointer]
    #19308285 - 12/21/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And your point is? You already know that I do believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, just not the protestant version you adhere to because I am Catholic.

But what Tony Parsons has to say fits much more with your version of the gospel, the idea that there is no individual free will and nothing you can do to bring about salvation.

You say the gospel must be heard and applied to the heart but you also say there is no free will. So if that is going to happen to me, then it will happen, there is nothing I can do to bring it about, right?


Edited by Deviate (12/21/13 02:36 PM)


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Tony Parsons appreciation thread [Re: Deviate]
    #19308380 - 12/21/13 03:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
And your point is? You already know that I do believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ, just not the protestant version you adhere to because I am Catholic.

But what Tony Parsons has to say fits much more with your version of the gospel, the idea that there is no individual free will and nothing you can do to bring about salvation.

You say the gospel must be heard and applied to the heart but you also say there is no free will. So if that is going to happen to me, then it will happen, there is nothing I can do to bring it about, right?




The bondage of the will, due to the Fall, is the reason for the total inability of man to come to any spiritual truth.  Only the unilateral action of God can break this bondage.  Technically speaking an unregenerate person can't escape their own bondage.  In fact, they are blind to the fact that they in bondage at all.

If the doctrine of Total Depravity is denied, then it follows that salvation must be a conditional proposition, which it is not. 

The gospel you believe is completely different from the one I believe. 

Man has no say in whether he is included in the number of the elect.  This has been decided before the foundation of the world.


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