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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
qman said: "hate speech is an integral part of the process"
That's impossible to ever prove, there are so many factors that go into genocide.
Most "hate speech" (99.999%) never involves a act of violence, so where is this correlation? It's not there.
Yes, anything outside of the hard sciences is impossible to 'prove'--but this does not mean that studies haven't been undertaken, nor that evidence strongly suggestive of the role hate speech has in genocide hasn't been found.
In fact, I'm willing to go out on a limb here to say that there is more evidence backing up hate speech as having no redeeming value in society, than there is for your '99.999%' figure that you probably just made up on the spot.
"no redeeming value in society"
Who makes this judgment? Does pornography involving people over the age of 18 have a "redeeming value in society"? Many say no, so maybe let's make a law prohibiting porn!
Why take the change of having porn available for the public to view? Many rapists and child molesters have viewed porn, maybe there is a correlation between viewing porn and sexual crimes, so ban porn today!
Maybe talking negatively about current political parties has "no redeeming value in society"? Saying negative things about Obama Care gets us nothing, why incite hatred on the new health care policy, this is no value in this type of political protest.
This freedom of speech is so overrated, lets protect people and ban all speech which is controversial, that's a great way to live, NOT!
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 9 minutes
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: qman]
#19308237 - 12/21/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice red herrings.
Obscenity laws are a whole different ballgame, and I'm generally opposed to them.
And, as has been already stated ad nauseam, airing negative opinions is not the same as inciteful hate speech--plus, in the realm of political debate, these opinions could very well have a redeeming value towards society (and let it be known, that exceptions are made for hate speech that occurs within the realm of a public debate as well, because of the recognition that public debate has redeeming value).
Anyways, back to the topic of hate speech and it's role in genocide? Or was the 99.999% "fact" your ace in hole?
Quote:
qman said: Who makes this judgment?
The guy who developed the eight stages of genocide, soon to be updated to the ten stages of genocide (because research is ongoing), is Gregory Stanton; here are his credentials: Stanton is Research Professor in Genocide Studies and Prevention at the School for Conflict Analysis and Resolution, George Mason University, Arlington, Virginia. From 2003 to 2009 he was the James Farmer Professor in Human Rights at the University of Mary Washington in Fredericksburg, Virginia. He has been a Law Professor at Washington and Lee University, American University, and the University of Swaziland. He has degrees from Oberlin College, Harvard Divinity School, Yale Law School, and a Doctorate in Cultural Anthropology from the University of Chicago. He was a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars (2001–2002).
But it's not just one person coming to these conclusions--genocide studies is a field of academia.
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Quawonk
Nobody Special


Registered: 03/20/13
Posts: 242
Loc: Planet Bob
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OK, look. Let me make my final post on this topic coz I'm getting tired. I'm sorry for any perceived insults and this stuff can get a little heated so let me take a step back and state this as simply as I can:
I just can't comprehend how so many people can suggest that a society that allows, for example, cretins like the WBC to mess with people's funerals, incite hatred and generally infuriate everyone is better than a society that doesn't allow it.
If the hypothetical situation of political dissent, obscenity, etc. being outlawed actually happens in the future, I'll be 100% on your side against it. But until then, my position is clear and I'm sticking to it. We'd all be better off without hate speech. Wouldn't it be great to not have to put up with this kind of crap anymore? Of course it would.I believe that some sort of legislative action should be taken, as has happened in many other countries, rather than simply waiting for things to naturally get better on their own. I don't claim to know how to bring it about, or if it's even possible, but we can at least start with reasoned discussion. How many more people need to be beaten or murdered before that happens?
Peace out.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Quawonk]
#19308480 - 12/21/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I read the first three pages of the thread and it seemed to be going nowhere 1. This has nothing to do with free speech. A&E can do whatever the fuck they want. That is their exercise of free speech. 2. They always knew these guys were devout bible thumping Christians. Guess what. The bible says homosexuality is an abomination. I don't agree but that is the tenet. You cannot be Catholic and support abortion. That's it. No ifs, ands or buts about it. 3. I think A&E's intention in starting this show was to ridicule these people and they were completely blindsided that such a huge audience admired them. 4. The Robertsons are the show. They can go to any network they want and A&E will lose the most successful show they ever had. The Robertsons are not going to be the ones losing money here.
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Hate speech?
Hahaha canada Is so ridiculous.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Enjoywho]
#19308526 - 12/21/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't say anything about hate speech
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Enjoywho]
#19308529 - 12/21/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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When did this turn into a Canada vs US thread 
From what I've read the Canadians are just trying to prove that Canada is better from limiting what you can say and trying to prove they are better. But who the fuck cares. It's Canada.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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Zombi3
Bella Ciao!!




Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 27,086
Loc: Bat Country
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This show is huge in Canada. Ive never seen it. Too lazy to read the thread. Rednecks dont interest me.
-------------------- You’ve Met With A Terrible Fate, Haven’t You?
Click here to enter this weeks Ban Lottery!! In Crust We Trust
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,484
Loc: Texas
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Zombi3]
#19308628 - 12/21/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Guys, this is all really fascinating debate. I thank all of you for participating. But honestly my goal of starting this thread was more aimed at deciphering the consequences this situation will have on....
  
Duck Dynasty Chia Pet sales. Discuss.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Zombi3
Bella Ciao!!




Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 27,086
Loc: Bat Country
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Niffla]
#19308634 - 12/21/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wanna retrofit my car to be a chia. Chia Pontiac Sunfire
-------------------- You’ve Met With A Terrible Fate, Haven’t You?
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,484
Loc: Texas
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Niffla]
#19308686 - 12/21/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Seriously though, I just wanted to throw in my two cents for whatever it's worth (nothing).
in no particular order
1. It's A&E's show. They're the ones giving out the paychecks. So if they wanna fire them/him, fine. If they don't, also fine. Because it's their show. I have zero problem with the man stating his opinion. But, you have to know that you can't openly state your opinion on certain topics these days or else there will likely be consequences. If I walk into my office and say certain things out loud I can be subject to discipline and/or termination. Just how it works.
2. As somebody said earlier though, this show is hugely popular for whatever reason and all they need to do (if let go by A&E) is head on over to <insert network here> and they'll be bigger than ever.
3. The fact that this is such a big deal is an indictment on this country. And I love this country. I'm not one of these shroomery posters who attacks America every chance I get. It's a great country. But stuff like this only gives them more ammo. So a guy from a cheesy A&E reality TV series said some anti-gay comments in a magazine. Who gives a fuck. Front page of the national news? Are you kidding me? Smh
4. To the poster who kept repeatedly labeling this as hate speech. I disagree. He stated an opinion and if you read it, it really lacked any sort of hate. He just said that he didn't get it in his opinion. And that he personally saw women's vaginas as more attractive than a man's anus. So do I. Doesn't mean I hate gay dudes. Now he did say some things that are very dated and uninformed, but I didn't see any "hate" in anything in what he said. If you want real hate speech then compare what he said to something the white supremacists or the black panthers would say. Or Muslim religious fanatics. They wish death upon people. That's hate speech. What this guy said is nothing. An opinion that he disagreed with. That's it.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,484
Loc: Texas
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Zombi3]
#19308689 - 12/21/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Zombi3 said: I wanna retrofit my car to be a chia. Chia Pontiac Sunfire 
lmao that would be the shizzle rolling around in a chia ride
here ya go
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tito123


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 3,006
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Niffla]
#19308760 - 12/21/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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My parents watch this show.
It's basically targeted towards christian country folk imo which makes up a lot of america
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!


Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Niffla]
#19308766 - 12/21/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said: 4. To the poster who kept repeatedly labeling this as hate speech. I disagree. He stated an opinion and if you read it, it really lacked any sort of hate. He just said that he didn't get it in his opinion. And that he personally saw women's vaginas as more attractive than a man's anus. So do I. Doesn't mean I hate gay dudes. Now he did say some things that are very dated and uninformed, but I didn't see any "hate" in anything in what he said. If you want real hate speech then compare what he said to something the white supremacists or the black panthers would say. Or Muslim religious fanatics. They wish death upon people. That's hate speech. What this guy said is nothing. An opinion that he disagreed with. That's it.
I dunno man, I think that's enough to call it hate speech.
Quote:
Asked what, in his mind, is sinful, Robertson replied: "Start with homosexual behavior and just morph out from there. Bestiality, sleeping around with this woman and that woman and that woman and those men."
I mean right here, perpetuating an obviously false link between being gay and screwing animals. It seems like a cheap move to try to turn LGTB people into "the enemy".
And as if that's not enough, well...
Quote:
He also made comments regarding race and growing up in Louisiana before the civil rights era.
"I never, with my eyes, saw the mistreatment of any black person. Not once. Where we lived was all farmers. The blacks worked for the farmers. I hoed cotton with them. I'm with the blacks, because we're white trash. We're going across the field. ... They're singing and happy. I never heard one of them, one black person, say, 'I tell you what: These doggone white people' -- not a word!
"Pre-entitlement, pre-welfare, you say: Were they happy? They were godly; they were happy; no one was singing the blues," GQ quotes Robertson as saying.
I mean, he's implying that there wasn't much racism before the civil rights era, when in fact there was loads of it. This is the kind of dude that sees nothing wrong with a "whites only" water fountain.
I mean at the end of the day I guess it's just the dudes opinion, whether it be right or wrong. I'm not gonna try and say it's hate speech, but it's wrong on all accounts, and if he preaches the same hate on the TV show then THAT would be hate speech.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: tito123]
#19308769 - 12/21/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, a whole shit load of America. Why do you think there was so much resistance to homo marriage?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: Synthe]
#19308777 - 12/21/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are dishonestly paraphrasing/editing what he said.
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tito123


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 3,006
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Yeah, a whole shit load of America. Why do you think there was so much resistance to homo marriage?
Country christian folk who are resistant to change
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Synthe
Gatorade me, bitch!


Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: You are dishonestly paraphrasing/editing what he said.
I just copied paragraphs from this page. I don't see any dishonesty involved.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Duck Dynasty [Re: tito123]
#19308810 - 12/21/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tito123 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Yeah, a whole shit load of America. Why do you think there was so much resistance to homo marriage?
Country christian folk who are resistant to change
I don't care. Their stupidity is not my problem. The people who voted for Obama are.
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tito123


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 3,006
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
tito123 said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Yeah, a whole shit load of America. Why do you think there was so much resistance to homo marriage?
Country christian folk who are resistant to change
I don't care. Their stupidity is not my problem. The people who voted for Obama are.
So you ask questions you don't care about knowing the answer to. Or you ask lots of rhetorical questions?
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