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Offlinepsyconaught
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Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage * 1
    #19305813 - 12/21/13 12:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So not only should we have a $15 minimum wage, but we should also have a mimim earning requirement for people who own business's! So if anyone starts a business they should be REQUIRED to make at least $45,000 a year!

Oh wait... thats not how economics works... A required earnings amount for business owners doesn't work because you cannot guarantee that business will produce that much value. Much like not every employee is worth $15 an hour of productivity.


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: psyconaught]
    #19305825 - 12/21/13 12:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yeah i was like, how the fuck would that even work?

everyone who starts a business is guaranteed a salary? fuck that :lol:


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19305837 - 12/21/13 12:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yep, satire my man... satire :lol:


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: psyconaught]
    #19305857 - 12/21/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think minimum wage should be $100,000 / hour.


I mean if were just pulling arbitrary numbers out of our asses why not make it more?


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Shins]
    #19305876 - 12/21/13 12:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

well its only fair, i mean less that $100,000 isn't a living wage.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Shins]
    #19305881 - 12/21/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I think minimum wage should be $100,000 / hour.


I mean if were just pulling arbitrary numbers out of our asses why not make it more?





that's not fair.  If minimum wage is $100,000 then engineers with degrees should be guaranteed $500,000 a year.  :smirk:


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19305893 - 12/21/13 12:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

and they shouldn't have to work, because work is tough man!


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19305934 - 12/21/13 12:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
and they shouldn't have to work, because work is tough man!



:awesomenod:


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OfflineInfiniteToker
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19305961 - 12/21/13 12:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

eliminate money and everyone be paid in their choice of sex, booze, and all foreseeable forms of pleasure that doesn't harm another lifeform negatively
= nirvana,bliss,etc....


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: InfiniteToker] * 1
    #19306935 - 12/21/13 08:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Price fixing sucks!


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: psyconaught]
    #19307204 - 12/21/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
well its only fair, i mean less that $100,000 isn't a living wage.



Agreed for the good of the collective everyone must have a middle class american lifestyle or there will be hell to pay!!


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InvisibleShins
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19307829 - 12/21/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And hell why even work or produce at all?  $100,000 / hour automatically.


I mean what can possibly go wrong?


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OfflineInfiniteToker
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Shins]
    #19309849 - 12/21/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

1 hour paid "naptime" similiar to naptime in Kindergartan


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"I'm chilling in a room with a view, there's always room for improvement; so i grab my coat and go and prove it"-Method Man


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InvisibleEchro
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: InfiniteToker]
    #19313370 - 12/22/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Swiss to vote on sweet minimum monthly income: $2,800
You guys hear about this shit?
How long do you think that'll last? :rofl:


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Echro]
    #19313383 - 12/22/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Echro said:
Swiss to vote on sweet minimum monthly income: $2,800
You guys hear about this shit?
How long do you think that'll last? :rofl:



hey man, switzerland has some smart government policies.  (if they're the country i have in mind) lets see how it plays out.


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InvisibleEchro
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19313418 - 12/22/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'd imagine a smaller land mass would be easier to centrally plan than a bigger one, so I can't contest Switzerland's ability to do so or not. I'm just wondering how this will play out in the long run, as long term effects are an important consideration in economic affairs. I'm also wondering just how much of the money to be redistributed will be coming out of the taxes from foreigners' Swiss bank accounts (if that's still a thing in Switzerland).

Eventually the scheme will bankrupt. Legislature doesn't have the same flexibility to respond to rising costs & loses as market forces do. The country will probably face several tax hikes & austerity measures down the road if that passes. & if the recent protests across the globe are any indication, once the Swiss populace is accustomed to a steady income they will not readily accept austerity, & Switzerland will probably end up needing a bailout from the ECB.

I can't say that all with certainty, mind you. But from my general economic knowledge I think that is what is most likely to happen.


Edited by Echro (12/22/13 08:10 PM)


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OfflineCannashroom
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Echro]
    #19337501 - 12/28/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well this was tried before in Canada as an experiment....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

Quote:

Mincome was an experimental Canadian basic income project that was held in Dauphin, Manitoba during the 1970s. The project, funded jointly by the Manitoba provincial government and the Canadian federal government, began with a news release on February 22, 1974, and was closed down in 1979. The purpose of this experiment was to determine whether a guaranteed, unconditional annual income caused disincentive to work for the recipients, and how great such a disincentive would be.
It allowed every family unit to receive a minimum cash benefit. The results showed a modest impact on labor markets, with working hours dropping one percent for men, three percent for wives, and five percent for unmarried women.[1] However, some have argued these drops may be artificially low because participants knew the guaranteed income was temporary.[2] These decreases in hours worked may be seen as offset by the opportunity cost of more time for family and education. Mothers spent more time rearing newborns, and the educational impacts are regarded as a success. Students in these families showed higher test scores and lower dropout rates. There was also an increase in adults continuing education.[3][4]
A final report was never issued, but Dr. Evelyn Forget (/fɔrˈʒeɪ/) conducted an analysis of the program in 2009 which was published in 2011.[4][5] She found that only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidences of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from car accidents and domestic abuse.[6] Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals.[7][8]




So contrary to what a lot of people will tell you about giving money to poor people...

If you supplement to a minimum wage most workers will not work less.  Only new and expecting mothers (who spend that time raising their child) and teenagers (who spend that time in school) actually work less.  And the result of this is a more educated, richer and prepared work force.  Rather than blow this money on shit they didn't need, most adults used the extra cash to get ahead, they got more educated, started a business or invested.  As a result of all of this there were fewer hospital visits and a healthier population.

Really rich people don't want these benefits for the working class because it helps them get ahead in life.  It's not about poor people being lazy, its about keeping them poor.


--------------------
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.

This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us.

Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

Albert Einstein


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Cannashroom]
    #19337838 - 12/28/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cannashroom said:
Well this was tried before in Canada as an experiment....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mincome

Quote:

Mincome was an experimental Canadian basic income project that was held in Dauphin, Manitoba during the 1970s. The project, funded jointly by the Manitoba provincial government and the Canadian federal government, began with a news release on February 22, 1974, and was closed down in 1979.

The purpose of this experiment was to determine whether a guaranteed, unconditional annual income caused disincentive to work for the recipients, and how great such a disincentive would be.
It allowed every family unit to receive a minimum cash benefit. The results showed a modest impact on labor markets, with working hours dropping one percent for men, three percent for wives, and five percent for unmarried women.[1] However, some have argued these drops may be artificially low because participants knew the guaranteed income was temporary.[2] These decreases in hours worked may be seen as offset by the opportunity cost of more time for family and education. Mothers spent more time rearing newborns, and the educational impacts are regarded as a success. Students in these families showed higher test scores and lower dropout rates. There was also an increase in adults continuing education.[3][4]
A final report was never issued, but Dr. Evelyn Forget (/fɔrˈʒeɪ/) conducted an analysis of the program in 2009 which was published in 2011.[4][5] She found that only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidences of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from car accidents and domestic abuse.[6] Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals.[7][8]




So contrary to what a lot of people will tell you about giving money to poor people...

If you supplement to a minimum wage most workers will not work less.  Only new and expecting mothers (who spend that time raising their child) and teenagers (who spend that time in school) actually work less.  And the result of this is a more educated, richer and prepared work force.  Rather than blow this money on shit they didn't need, most adults used the extra cash to get ahead, they got more educated, started a business or invested.  As a result of all of this there were fewer hospital visits and a healthier population.

Really rich people don't want these benefits for the working class because it helps them get ahead in life.  It's not about poor people being lazy, its about keeping them poor.




If it was so great how come they stopped it?


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: psyconaught]
    #19338066 - 12/28/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
So not only should we have a $15 minimum wage, but we should also have a mimim earning requirement for people who own business's! So if anyone starts a business they should be REQUIRED to make at least $45,000 a year!

Oh wait... thats not how economics works... A required earnings amount for business owners doesn't work because you cannot guarantee that business will produce that much value. Much like not every employee is worth $15 an hour of productivity.




nice, examples made of the most extreme cases and with sarcasm :wink:

You know, if every extreme example is justification that someone else arguing with you is wrong, then how about this?

a) gays shouldn't be married, if enough H.I.V. is passed around a mutant airborne strain might develop killing the entire country. We all know it's been proven SOME GAYS have AIDs

b) any time there is an area where there is a shark attack that year, no one should be allowed to swim in the water at all for 3 years. All beaches should be off limits, that way there is no possibility of shark attacks. After all, one example is surely good enough reason to not set a toe in the water right?

c) no one should work in hospitals anymore. Nurses/doctors/surgeons should be private and work with individual families. After all, in hospitals, certain bacteria mutate from too many antibiotics. And workers in these places can carry the extremely resistant strain, one day a strain could mutate that could kill all people. All hospitals should be shut down, after all extreme examples are the best way to make a point, raising the minimum wage .05 cents could completely destroy capitalism as we know it, why employees could be making $25 an hour minimum wage. What a disaster, no one could afford that, extreme inflation is a possibility.

d) I think no one should have a private pet anymore, they should all be wild. Private pets have been known to get rabies, and if every person in the world contracted rabies, we would all die. What are people thinking :facepalm:

e) dude honestly, I'm thinking veils, as in the bhurka. No one needs to be exposed to sunlight. Radiation causes cancer, and anyone with bad pigment passes down genetics that make a person very susceptible to cancer. If these genes were to dominate the population, then eventually 100% of the population could contract skin cancer, even if it's hundreds of years in the future, that is the end of humanity. Not to mention, I think all cities below a certain line of the equator should be evacuated and deserted and off limits, such as Florida. Too much UV down there. In fact anything that uses fossil fuels should automatically be banned, after all we know co2 kills ozone which protects us from suns harmful rays

f) as long as you are bringing up the possibility of businesses not being guaranteed to make a profit at all, why don't we get rid of private leasing agreements? After all, if every person who asked for land to start a business was given it for free, lot's of businesses would exist, and not making a profit at first wouldn't be so detrimental to economics.





Ok, we are on the same page here? Extreme examples must be used to show the retarded rationality of people who possibly think that it's fair to have an open option of increasing other peoples lively hood at the risk of all Americans, considering that by god the minimum wage tomorrow could be $500 an hour! Complete and total economic anarchy! OH MY GOD

:feelsbadman:


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Something we should have IN ADDITION to the minimum wage [Re: Shins]
    #19338103 - 12/28/13 06:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I think minimum wage should be $100,000 / hour.


I mean if were just pulling arbitrary numbers out of our asses why not make it more?




How about $10,000,000 an hour? I mean the taxes alone would fix the federal deficit in just a few short months


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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