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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 2 days
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: enotake2]
    #1923977 - 09/17/03 02:47 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I love Starship Troopers (the movie even), if you imagine the bugs as the terrorists/Iraqis, and the humans as the Americans/British, its got some amazing similarities to the Iraq War.

Its cheesy as hell but still funny to watch.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1924502 - 09/17/03 09:24 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
Easy, you see, those troops in Kosovo (KFOR) are a NATO-led international force under a UN-mandate.




We went into Kosovo without UN approval initially.

Quote:

Thats the same reason why there are international troops in Afghanistan, various countries in Africa and so on. They are internationally approved to be there, foreign forces (us forces) in iraq however aren't.




Duh. I know this.

Quote:

Iraq is US-led without a UN mandate, so why would France need to contribute troops to Iraq?




I never said France needed to send troops. I do think if they want us to help them in places like Africa, they should quit being a roadblock for other countries to help us in Iraq.

Quote:

Bush is only seeking the benefits of an UN mandate, namely the costs and dirty jobs (peacekeeping) being paid and done by other countries without giving military control away or having met the requests of the other countries (for example giving the political power to Iraqis as asked by France)




France is pretty much the only veto weilding country that is against the new resolution. The French are not asking for military control, they want political control. The also lied when they said the US resolution does not do anything to give the power to the Iraqi people. It clearly states that the timeline should be provided by the Iraqi governing council. If passed they will need to put forward a timeline for drafting their constitution, and setting up elections as well as the rest of the government infrastructure. France on the other hand says that we should give the Iraqis control tomorrow basically. This argument from them is assinine to say the least. The infrastructure just is not there yet. So basically, we want the Iraqis to give us a timeline, while the French want to impose a dreamworld timeline.


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OnlineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Posts: 32,317
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Re: Kinky sex makes the world go round [Re: enotake2]
    #1926353 - 09/17/03 09:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I love that song. Biafra was off about the LSD thing. He believed that the government wanted LSD to get out there because it would keep the people weak. I think LSD had the opposite effect. It's the CIA's "fault" that LSD got out, but once it was out it turned into a problem for them.





--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People



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Anonymous

Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1926571 - 09/17/03 10:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm lucky. I'm not allowed to be in the military because I have a schizo-affective disorder.  :smile:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Minister to the Damned
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,775
Loc: space
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: ]
    #1926640 - 09/17/03 10:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

He believed that the government wanted LSD to get out there because it would keep the people weak. I think LSD had the opposite effect. It's the CIA's "fault" that LSD got out, but once it was out it turned into a problem for them.




I always thought it was a little of both. The CIA origionally intended to use LSD as urban pacification and it served its purpose well. Confusion. Discreditation. Total chaos in the peace movement.

But then it got out of hand. LSD became more than a recreational drug. I'm sure I dont have to give you a lecture on its potential, Learyfan. Obviously, the CIA did not want us to have it, which is why it is one of the most persecuted drugs today, and all the distribution has been dismantled and the ingredients are harder to get than explosives.

Obviously there are more profitable and mentally debilitating drugs out there. Coke. Heroin. Ecstacy for the kiddies.

any way, just my lamebrained opinion



--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: ]
    #1926688 - 09/17/03 10:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


France is pretty much the only veto weilding country that is against the new resolution.




Not true. Russia and China also made some comments about the resolution and how it needs a proper 'tuning' before they ll approve it. So that makes 3 out of 5 against it.
Quote:


I never said France needed to send troops. I do think if they want us to help them in places like Africa, they should quit being a roadblock for other countries to help us in Iraq.




France doesnt run his own wars in Africa, they are donating troops for peacekeeping and such.
And why is a UN-veto a roadblock for other countries?
If they want to help out, why shouldnt they be able to? Poland, Spain, Australia, the UK and many many many others of that big coalition of the willing are already helping out.
a) Why do you need more? (Didnt i hear you say quite often how big and unbeatable the US Army was?)
b) Why do you need an UN-resolution? (for the benefits duh)
c) Why shouldnt France use it right to veto something it doesnt want to approve? I guess many people also didnt want the 80+ pro-israel-vetoes by the US in the UN.



--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1926741 - 09/17/03 11:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
Not true. Russia and China also made some comments about the resolution and how it needs a proper 'tuning' before they ll approve it. So that makes 3 out of 5 against it.





I have heard that at worst they would abstain and not vote at all, but they wouldn't veto it.

Quote:

France doesnt run his own wars in Africa, they are donating troops for peacekeeping and such.
And why is a UN-veto a roadblock for other countries?
If they want to help out, why shouldnt they be able to? Poland, Spain, Australia, the UK and many many many others of that big coalition of the willing are already helping out.




We have allowed France to do what they want in Africa. The have been screwing up that contenant long before the UN existed anyway.

Quote:

a) Why do you need more? (Didnt i hear you say quite often how big and unbeatable the US Army was?)




We don't have to have any more foreign troops. It would be nice though, and would allow us to rotate our troops a little better. The main reason is political of course. I think this resolution was designed more to be an olive branch than anything.

Quote:

b) Why do you need an UN-resolution? (for the benefits duh)




Again, mainly political. It would be nice to have the UN back the building of Iraq. Many countries such as Pakistan, and India want a resolution before they will help.

Quote:

c) Why shouldnt France use it right to veto something it doesnt want to approve? I guess many people also didnt want the 80+ pro-israel-vetoes by the US in the UN.




I never said the shouldn't. It is their right. I just think they are doing it for revenge for ignoring them earlier. There reasons for not supporting the resolution are ridiculous.


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InvisibleLazerouth
Drunkard

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 1,091
Loc: England
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1926834 - 09/17/03 11:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

just out of curiosity can any us citizen be drafted? if you have dual citizenship would that stop them? ima uk an us citizen i hope that mr.bush lets me use a p90.


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1926838 - 09/17/03 11:49 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


I have heard that at worst they would abstain and not vote at all, but they wouldn't veto it.




http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/05/sprj.irq.un/
I ve nowhere read Russia would abstain at most.
>>
Washington's draft resolution requesting help in Iraq -- which Russia has described as a good start that still needs "very serious work."
>>
It doesnt look like they ll approve the resolution tomorrow.

Quote:


We have allowed France to do what they want in Africa. The have been screwing up that contenant long before the UN existed anyway.




How cheap. Its better to screw something up than to drain it from it ppl and use them as slaves (y). Or should i start about the treatment of indians and blacks in the good old days of the us?
Europe is taking up its responsibilities towards ex-colonies.

Quote:


We don't have to have any more foreign troops. It would be nice though, and would allow us to rotate our troops a little better. The main reason is political of course. I think this resolution was designed more to be an olive branch than anything.




Lets see at that link i gave you.
Look at the text beneath the pic >>
The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.
Quote:


Again, mainly political. It would be nice to have the UN back the building of Iraq. Many countries such as Pakistan, and India want a resolution before they will help.




Again i quote >>
The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.

Besides, if India and Pakistan want a resolution before they will help, that means that they want the US to comply to international demands on the Iraq-question, including those of France.
A UN resolution is not just a stamp or a hollow paper.

Maybe they even dont want to help out but say they do, while knowing that the biggers countries would make it hard for the US to comply to international demands.



Quote:


I just think they are doing it for revenge for ignoring them earlier.




Hmm, wait, let me finish these french fries here first. Ok, finished, sorry to get a lil bit offtopic, now what were you saying about childish revenge?



--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1927016 - 09/18/03 12:40 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/05/sprj.irq.un/
I ve nowhere read Russia would abstain at most.

Washington's draft resolution requesting help in Iraq -- which Russia has described as a good start that still needs "very serious work."

It doesnt look like they ll approve the resolution tomorrow.

Quote:



We will see when they vote on it. I am sure some changed will be made. You always leave a little wiggle room in something like this.

Quote:

How cheap. Its better to screw something up than to drain it from it ppl and use them as slaves (y). Or should i start about the treatment of indians and blacks in the good old days of the us?
Europe is taking up its responsibilities towards ex-colonies.




Most if not all the land in Europe has been stolen from someone else in the past. Let's not look at the bad shit European countries have done in the past. Racial tolerance hasn't exactly been a strong point of Europe even recently.

The US's historical colonies pale in comparison. France did a great job with Viet Nam for example. Besides what the hell does that have to do with the current situation in Iraq.

Quote:


Lets see at that link i gave you.
Look at the text beneath the pic >>
The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.





Yes we are. That does not mean we can't handle the situation if we have to though.


Quote:


The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.




Again I will say that the political benefits outweigh any troops we will get from Europe.

Quote:

Besides, if India and Pakistan want a resolution before they will help, that means that they want the US to comply to international demands on the Iraq-question, including those of France.
A UN resolution is not just a stamp or a hollow paper.




First of all, just because France wants us to totally screw up the situation doesn't mean that we are going to let them make us do it. We will definately continue with the coalition we have, before we do that. Secondly, all those resolutions made against Saddam sure seemed pretty damn hollow to me.

Quote:

Maybe they even dont want to help out but say they do, while knowing that the biggers countries would make it hard for the US to comply to international demands.




Maybe, monkeys might fly out of my ass too. Neither of us has a fucking clue if that has any merit or not.



Quote:


Hmm, wait, let me finish these french fries here first. Ok, finished, sorry to get a lil bit offtopic, now what were you saying about childish revenge?




Yeah, changing the name of two dishes in cafeteria of a government building in response to an ally totally letting us down, is exactly like refusing to allow the rest of the world to help rebuild a fellow country. :rolleyes:


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Offlinedomite
Puppet
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Registered: 04/12/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1927224 - 09/18/03 01:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)


Maybe, monkeys might fly out of my ass too. Neither of us has a fucking clue if that has any merit or not.

speak for yourself. I happen to have very good evedence that monkeys are going to fly out of your ass.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: domite]
    #1928452 - 09/18/03 10:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Let me know when it is coming so I can cath them, and make them into those land mine detecting monkeys.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1928737 - 09/18/03 01:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

read _starship troopers_ by heinlein...
citizenship is granted ONLY to veterans of federal service...
(but NO forced conscription!!!)


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: ]
    #1928750 - 09/18/03 01:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I was just diagnosed yesterday with being Schizotypal.I don't agree with the diagnosis,but no combat for this looney. :grin: :thumbup: 


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: gnrm23]
    #1929267 - 09/18/03 04:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

read _starship troopers_ by heinlein...
citizenship is granted ONLY to veterans of federal service...
(but NO forced conscription!!!)




But those were not necessarily military veterans. They did some sort of federal service, often hard and dirty civil engineering type work.


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: wingnutx]
    #1929845 - 09/18/03 06:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Besides what the hell does that have to do with the current situation in Iraq.




You brought it up.
Quote:


Again I will say that the political benefits outweigh any troops we will get from Europe.




If you mean financial by political, i tend to agree
Quote:


Secondly, all those resolutions made against Saddam sure seemed pretty damn hollow to me.




Those accusations about WMD's were even hollower.
The US mainly accused the rest of the world not taking up his responsabilities (sp?) to the high risk Iraq posed to the world.
Well, that seemed to be a big lie. Its not for nothing the UN didnt believe them.
Quote:


Yeah, changing the name of two dishes in cafeteria of a government building in response to an ally totally letting us down, is exactly like refusing to allow the rest of the world to help rebuild a fellow country.




That is the most known example.
Hmm, another one.
Currently, the western world is highly debating where the first (expiremental) nucleair fusionplant would be built. The 4 countries where it may be build are : Spain, France, Canada and Japan.
Well, it is no surprise that the US has a preference for Spain (pro-war) than one for France (anti-war).

Hmm, an ally letting us down?
France sure doesnt get the term 'ally' anymore these days, i even bet there are many americans who love to see a nuke on Paris.
And why would the rest of the world rebuild a country you shot to pieces?
Iraq was a leading country on terms of infrastructure and such before Gulf War 1. The embargo + the last Gulf War and the american occupation right now are even destroying more. That embargo should been lifted years ago, the 2nd Gulf War should never been there.





--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/18/03 06:56 PM)


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1930408 - 09/18/03 10:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Saddam brought all of that crap onto his own country. Let's assume there are no more WMDs, the man clearly kept up the appearances that he had them, so he wouldn't be attacked. I don't really want to argue this all out again. You know the whole gold toilet instead of food for his people thing. If we are to be blamed for the all the damage, the UN is most certainly to blame as well. The repairs in many cases involve replacing entire infrastructures that were not blown apart, but which instead have fallen apart.


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