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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} 2
#19297420 - 12/19/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I thought it would be very helpful for newbs and experienced grafters alike to have all of the possible rootstock plants in one place, and see their advantages/disadvantages in certain situations. I would like to hear everyone's input, especially if you have direct experience with certain stock, and I'll include it in the OP. I'll be updating this regularly, I hope to eventually have extensive descriptions with pictures, but for this draft I'll only list all the species I can think of (or at least the ones I have), and a bit later add some basic info. Btw, there is a very good graft stock comparison at kadasgarden for a couple common species, give it a look!
Any suggestion are very welcome!
Acanthocereus tetragonus Pros: Very fast growth speed Cons:
Grafting difficulty: Very easy
Scion growth speed: Very fast
Propagation speed: Fast
Best for: Young seedlings and smaller, slow growing species. Permanent stock
Environmental conditions: Full sunlight, very water tolerant.
Notes:
Hylocereus undatus Pros: Very fast scion growth, fast stock propagation, high water tolerance, easy to handle, long lasting
Cons: Greater grafting difficulty for young seedlings, offsets often, sometimes will rot in colder weather
Grafting difficulty: Difficult (seedlings)/Medium (older scions)
Scion growth speed: Very fast
Propagation speed: Very fast
Best for: smaller species, permanent stock.
Environmental conditions: Full sun, water tolerant except in very cold weather
Notes: It is best to remove all areoles to prevent offseting. I use it for Astrophytum seedlings, and older specimens of all other species using the superglue method.

Selenicereus grandiflorus Pros: Very fast scion growth, very fast stock propagation, high water tolerance, easy to handle, pushes more energy into scions than offsets, ease of grafting, doesn't require pressure for young seedlings
Cons: I can think of none right now
Grafting difficulty: Very easy
Scion growth speed: Very fast
Propagation speed: Very fast
Best for: Young seedlings and older specimens alike, can be buried into the substrate and act as a root system even for very large cacti.
Environmental conditions: Full sun, very water tolerant.
Notes: My favorite grafting stock for young seedlings of all species

Harrisia jusbertii Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Harrisia pomanensis Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Opuntia fragilis v. denudata Pros: Very easy to handle, extreme cold tolerance, small and inconspicuous, more 'natural' looking scions
Cons: Somewhat slower scion growth and propagation speed
Grafting difficulty: Easy (different vascular system position)
Scion growth speed: Medium to fast
Propagation speed: Medium
Best for: retaining the natural appearance of the scion.
Environmental conditions: Full sun and lots of water during the growing season, extremely cold hardy.
Notes: Not too much experience with these yet, mostly in the process of propagating them for now. But it seems very promising as a long-term stock.
Opuntia compressa Pros: Extreme cold tolerance, more 'natural' looking scions, tolerates several scions on one pad
Cons: Glochids (!!), somewhat slower scion growth and propagation speed
Grafting difficulty: Easy
Scion growth speed: Medium to fast
Propagation speed: Medium
Best for: retaining the natural appearance of the scion.
Environmental conditions: Full sun, extremely winter hardy
Notes: Good permanent stock, but demands very thick gloves to handle.
Opuntia sp. (O. ficus-indica) Pros: Extreme cold tolerance, more 'natural' looking scions, tolerates several scions on one pad, large size suitable for large columnars
Cons: Difficult to handle
Grafting difficulty: Medium to difficult, due to nasty spinage
Scion growth speed: Fast
Propagation speed: Medium
Best for: large outdoor columnars and other species, making them much more cold resistant
Environmental conditions: full sun, extremely winter hardy
Notes:
Pereskiopsis sp. Pros: Very fast growth speed in some cases, ease of grafting, very water tolerant, can support dozens of scions simultaneously
Cons: Offsets constantly, greatly reducing scion growth speed, requires very high humidity during the growing season, often severely deforms the scion, glochids, temporary stock, grows inside the scion, making it difficult to degraft
Grafting difficulty: Very easy
Scion growth speed: Very fast in right conditions
Propagation speed: Very fast
Best for: very young seedlings, and large columnars, temporary stock.
Environmental conditions: partial shade, very high humidity, very high temperatures.
Notes:

Pereskia aculeata Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Myrtillocactus geometrizans Pros: Grafting ease, good growth speed, sturdy permanent stock, easy to handle, tolerates multiple scions
Cons: Slow propagation, very cold sensitive, rots easily
Grafting difficulty: easy, requires pressure on the scion.
Scion growth speed: fast
Propagation speed: slow
Best for: all species, permanent stock
Environmental conditions: full sun, heat, careful watering
Notes:

Myrtillocactus cochal Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Trichocereus pachanoi Pros: Grafting ease, good growth speed, sturdy permanent stock, easy to handle, fast propagation, can support large scions
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Trichocereus bridgesii Pros: Grafting ease, good growth speed, sturdy permanent stock, easy to handle, esthetically pleasing, can support large scions
Cons: Spines
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Trichocereus cuzcoensis Pros: Same as other Trichocereus + tolerates lower temperatures
Cons: Quite spiny, which on the other hand makes it look stunning
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Trichocereus spachianus group Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Stenocereus griseus Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Echinopsis oxygona Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Ferocactus glaucens Pros:
Cons:
Grafting difficulty:
Scion growth speed:
Propagation speed:
Best for:
Environmental conditions:
Notes:
Edited by Tangich (12/20/13 03:29 AM)
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: Tangich]
#19297422 - 12/19/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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{reserved}
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Horizon
Stranger
Registered: 08/15/13
Posts: 229
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: Tangich]
#19300131 - 12/19/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Great idea for a thread. I have been interested in grafting lately though I have never attempted it before. When I get around to it I will post my experience with Trich. Pachanoi, as that will be my grafting stock.
-------------------- Stanhope is right
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LSoares
Farmer



Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: Horizon]
#19301019 - 12/20/13 02:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If I may make a suggestion, there's one of the "traditional" stocks missing: Trichocereus spachianus / schickendantzii. I've also seen a lot of grafting done on small Echinopsis oxygona-type offsets.
This is a thread I'll definitely keep a close eye on.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,467
Loc: 613
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: LSoares]
#19303104 - 12/20/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Pereskia aculeata is one I plan on trying in the not too distant future. I have a few that I started from seed that are getting to a decent size but I have not attempted any grafts. I've read that it can be a very fast stock though.
O. humifusa is another I have but have not grafted to yet. The cold hardiness is a big plus because I don't have all that much space to keep grafting stock inside over the winter. Apparently it's very similar to O. compressa and some consider it to be the same species. So far it seems to be growing quite rapidly under MH light.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
Posts: 2,627
Loc: EU
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: psi]
#19303182 - 12/20/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have some data from different grafting stocks with lophophora..
I can take photos and show when I can get back to home.
I have find out little bit of a slow grower echinopsis good for loph, it's water tolerant and good root stock.. Also lophs doesn't look so plump up compared to trichocereus and blue myrtle.
I don't know what the echinopsis cactus is, I have ask ID there but no one knows.. Can be maybe some hybrid or something. Don't know but lophs at my echinopsis stocks seems to do very nice.!
There are picture about the stock cactus I have tried and I have atm possibility to compare growth rates and so on, I have graft same time tricho and blue myrtle stocks too. So I have something where I compare.
I would graft cobular echinopsis if priorities are water tolerance and nice not so plump up appearance.
When I get back home I can show pic from this stock with loph 4-5months later

For now I have only pics from the first month and few days after graft.
Growth rate is not so slow I think but plants doesn't look too much plump of of water compared to trichocereus and blue myrtle.. I wish I know what this echinopsis is.. It's very easilly forms offshooting, they are easy to take and grow a grafting stock for button.

Late September picture. 3 echinopsis and one graft to seedling of t. bridgesii.
 These are now better looking, that time these had some mites and scarring but scarring of scions has stopped. They grow very good new epidermis(when they have water, it's winter now so they go slow) 
I have few months old picture of grafts are doing today okey.. I have now something to compare.. Growth speed etc..

I can update differency about these 3 stocks because few months has been passed anyway.
For ornamental and water tolerant purposes, echinopsis like I have used are very good to use as stock, aeroles are easy to scrap off from spines like I have done now... These are like lophs with spiny tap root and appearance is more regular compared to most plump up grafted ones. Also These kind of grafting doesn't require very long stock plant.
I like this echinopsis.. I have success with another else mostly "cereus" columnars as stock plant.. Never have find out what can be the species of stock. Anyway, now I'm going to test differencies.. When the connection of two plants are really formed.. Let's say in few summer months when these plants grow.. Echinopsis can be buried very deep to soil or probably bury it completely with rocky surface. I wait till scions are bigger I little by little bury the stock plant and leave only the loph scion visible above soil level. 
There is some more I can post update when I'm back home. I haven't updated my grafted plants long time. There are some. I have done the clustered growth of peyote every button to individual graft, not all buttons survived but anyway.. There is some various stocks. Etiolated trichocereus is very good when grafting, it's so soft and scions attach easy.

Edited by intelligentlife (12/20/13 02:44 PM)
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gr33ntea
That Guy


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: intelligentlife]
#19436834 - 01/18/14 08:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have been waiting for a thread like this to pop up. I am currently rooting pereskia accul, once it is rooted i will plant it and then i have to wait for fresh new growth that isnt woody.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,467
Loc: 613
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: gr33ntea]
#19436944 - 01/18/14 09:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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One grafter I encountered on another forum suggested using it for impale style grafts rather than flat grafts. IIRC he claimed that growth was even faster than Pereskiopsis.
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Tangich


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 8,723
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: psi]
#19438241 - 01/18/14 02:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I kinda underestimated the amount of work needed to make this thread worth something. And I'm not really satisfied with the 'categories', but I can't figure out how to exactly organize it to provide all relevant information for each stock. Any suggestions would be very welcome. Also, I don't know what to do about images, don't think it would be right to link to someone else's images from google without permission. With some recent events I lost the desire to post here temporarily, but I see that has been resolved now, and I hope this thread will be completed in due time. Regarding Pereskia, I've also read about impale grafting, my two plants are struggling but I'll try to grow one enough to try grafting to it, I'm really interested how that would fare.
Edited by Tangich (01/18/14 03:10 PM)
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,467
Loc: 613
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: Tangich]
#19438323 - 01/18/14 03:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Mine are kind of wacky and not graft-ready either. I did not have a timer for the light they were on until recently so they spent a bunch of time in the dark when I forgot to turn it on and got spindly. I have 6 that I grew from seed, 3 of which seem to put on height a lot more rapidly even under sunlight. Those are the ones that have now gone spindly and viny due to low light though. I have set up a timer and moved the light lower now so hopefully they can produce some fatter growth.
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gr33ntea
That Guy


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: psi]
#19439099 - 01/18/14 06:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: One grafter I encountered on another forum suggested using it for impale style grafts rather than flat grafts. IIRC he claimed that growth was even faster than Pereskiopsis.
This guy? http://forum.auscactiforum.net/t1225-using-pereskia-species-as-grafting-stock
Also i was wondering if someone can link me to a video or something of impale graft technique, i cant seem to find any
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gr33ntea
That Guy


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Melbourne
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: gr33ntea]
#19439128 - 01/18/14 06:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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My Pereskia is Pereskia aculeata 'Godseffiana' And it says the 'Godseffiana' strain is not good grafting stock, hmmm
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,467
Loc: 613
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Re: Grafting stock comparison {work in progress} [Re: gr33ntea]
#19439227 - 01/18/14 06:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yep that's the thread I was thinking of. I recall seeing some spectacular grafting photos from that user (though not on Pereskia) so I trust he speaks from experience on the topic.
Don't know offhand of any links on impale grafting but I think I remember seeing an old thread or two on here about it. Impale and wedge grafting are related techniques.
With wedge grafting the stock is cut into a chisel shape and the scion gets a matching notch. This is the one I've tried (with Trichocereus scions of various sizes on Pereskiopsis.) It's pretty easy to cut the surfaces to match, but the scion sliding around can be an issue. IME the angle on the stock should be a little wider than that of the notch on the scion, to ensure a tight fit even when the surfaces shrink.
With impale grafting the stock gets shaped into a point and the scion gets a matching conical indentation. I've never tried this but it seems like it would have the advantage of being very secure. I'm not sure how closely matched the surfaces need to be to get a good union though. For the stock portion you could use a pencil sharpener. Somewhere I have a drill bit for grafting trees that has the same taper as a pencil sharpener, but I can't find it. This is what it looks like though:
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