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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19302399 - 12/20/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"making money" being the sole reason for people doing anything, is worthless.

also stupid.


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Offlineclaraclairvoyant
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Crystal G]
    #19302403 - 12/20/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i had a friend who used to tease me for going to art school. that fucker never even went to college. never really threw that one back in his face, kind of wanted to though. at least i have a degree :shrug: and it's already gotten me a full time job. not the career i want, though.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: claraclairvoyant]
    #19302463 - 12/20/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

A lot of people who dont go to university and get a degree end up regretting it later.

It gives me a major feeling of pride and satisfaction and self confidence, even if it doesn't get me a job it lets me hold my head high and have self respect.


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19302469 - 12/20/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
It gives me a major feeling of pride and satisfaction and self confidence, even if it doesn't get me a job it lets me hold my head high and have self respect.




that seems so irrational to me

i mean i guess if it's a degree that you are passionate about


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: k00laid]
    #19302479 - 12/20/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How is it irrational to take pride in a major accomplishment and feel self respect for having achieved a goal you set for yourself, gaining knowledge in the process?


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Moonshoe]
    #19302493 - 12/20/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if youre passionate about it sure

but i think college degrees are a major waste of resources

but i guess being a tall white man maybe my perspective is skewed. i seem to get jobs easily


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: k00laid]
    #19302533 - 12/20/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
if youre passionate about it sure

but i think college degrees are a major waste of resources

but i guess being a tall white man maybe my perspective is skewed. i seem to get jobs easily




LOL tell me about it

we have two seperate forms of education here: Adult education and "middle-jury". Basically you can do 2-3 years in one year.

I always hated school because it left me dumbfounded, such a waste of time and yeaaarrrss that pass for something that could easily be done in a year (even less) unless specalization ofcourse.

and yes there are college/uni degrees in adult education.

Also getting treated as a person instead of as a kid is so nice. AKA cut the bullshit and move on, teachers realize you have a life other then school :thumbup:.


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Beanhead]
    #19302718 - 12/20/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I had the pleasure of being in arts magnet schools for the entirety of my public education while growing up. Quite a few of my school mates have gone on to make successful livings in music. There are a lot more gigs out there than just being one in a million and becoming a rock star, guys. They play on cruise ships, they get hired to play on touring musicals, get a steady gig as the house band... Someone I know recently signed with a major label simply as a songwriter. Many of them get by teaching lessons, or get a 'real' job teaching band at a school. There is plenty of money out there for good musicians. Hell, I work with a wedding dj and he easily makes a grand every weekend.

SO no, arts education is not worthless. Did all of those kids go on to get a music degree? No.  But the ones traveling the world playing piano did.

There is a big difference between learning on youtube and going to CalArts or Julliard. And there is a big difference between someone who chooses a degree based on the money they think they'll make and one who chooses a degree based on their passion.


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OfflinesubliciouscompostV
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Crystal G]
    #19302786 - 12/20/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Never to late! Reminds me of a quote,  "I can't define success but failure is trying to please everyone". Do what you believe in and give it your all. There will be people turning it down left and right especially those with 9 to 5's but if you want something enough, you can have it! Period! No argument could take that belief from me.

Without music and art and of course mushrooms:) there's nothing!


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OfflineGreySatyr
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: subliciouscompost]
    #19302950 - 12/20/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I wish I had learned music earlier, now I'm stuck trying to learn it at 24 with much less time on my hands and lesser resources. Although I still have the Internet, my time to use it is limited to when people are buggin me or I don't have work to do. Basically, usually when I'm worn out and mentally fatigued. There's always hope that. You don't really appreciate music until you've began playing it.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: psi]
    #19302956 - 12/20/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
My piano teacher from Julliard works from 9am to 9pm making $100 a day, IN CASH. 6 days a week. No taxes, man. You do the math on that one. She loves music too, even if she isn't working she's playing it or listening to it for 10 hours a day.




Are you trying to say she just doesn't pay her taxes? I would guess she probably does.




I'm sure she does, to get social security benefits later on in life. I just personally wouldn't pay nearly as much as she probably does.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: k00laid]
    #19302984 - 12/20/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

pwnasaurus said:
Quote:

k00laid said:
i hope you realize this all depends on where you live

no one in downtown detroit is paying 100$ an hour for music lessons from some lady they found at baskin robbins

these ideas are nice and cute, but IMO unrealistic.


i think all degrees are worthless

im climbing the finance ladder with no degree. seems to be working just fine.



Well of course it's relative to where you live - I don't think many people in Detroit are making $100/hr period.

I find it hard to believe that you could "climb the finance ladder" without any degree.  What is your position right now and how much do you make?  I have several friends in finance/consulting and they would never even look twice at you without a degree.  Most firms only hire 1-2 people out of hundreds of applicants, most of whom are either engineering or commerce graduates at the top of their class.




youre thinking a different finance.

i give loans to people who don't really need them

also: i started 5 months ago with no experience. now im training off and on still doing customer service occasionally for 30 a year.




LOL. Things like loan-sharking, and tax consulting, you don't need a degree for. I've met ghetto kids straight out of rehab that were doing what you do. Try going into hedge funds or stockbroking with no degree.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Crystal G]
    #19302992 - 12/20/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you should check out Mark Feldman - Music for Violin and Music for Violin and Piano with Sylvie Courvoisier, Crystal G.


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Crystal G]
    #19302994 - 12/20/13 01:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Each one of us have priorities and other views deciding what is important and not. Each one of us have different views, a different understanding of reality.. and I would go as far to say even different realities..

And so, atleast I think, it ends in all being relative.. as one reality may hold one truth, it may be the greatest of blasphemy in the next..


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #19303031 - 12/20/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Well now there is a difference between studying art and music and getting a degree in art and music. You could easily study art and music on the side while getting a degree in something career applicable, and that would probably be wiser.

That said do what you love. Education will enrich your life and stimulate your mind, and that is never worthless.




I agree with this wholeheartedly, I'm a musician but am studying Biochemistry at the moment. Especially in the current financial climate, it would be ballsy to try getting a degree in music.




Know what's interesting? I have a friend with a BS in biochemistry. According to her, her degree didn't help her find a job. She recommends going to trade school instead. :lol:


Quote:

Honestly a music or art degree is virtually worthless in each respective field, the highest paying jobs in both require no degree whatsoever (ex: studio exec, gallery owner) and the ones available with a degree are so low paying you'd have to be a trustafarian to get through student loan payments without a second job. A possible  exception would be receiving an ass ton of scholarships but that doesn't tend to happen often.

I'm not saying it's worthless to study music and art, but it is in-debting yourself to get a piece of paper saying you studied in a prestigious location.




I think people misunderstand a lot of things about music school. For starters, if you're a music major, you're expected to practice between 3-5 hour a day. If you're in a really SERIOUS school like Julliard, or USC Music School, you're expected to practice 10 hours a day. How many people do you know practice their skills 10 hours a day on their own?

The thing is, REAL musicians can tell the difference. They can tell the difference between somebody who practiced only one hour a day, and somebody who practices 10. They can tell the difference between somebody who got lessons from somebody good, and somebody who learned off Youtube.

Second, you learn a lot of other things on top of that, such as music theory and composition. Performance is only one aspect of it.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19303044 - 12/20/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you should check out Mark Feldman - Music for Violin and Music for Violin and Piano with Sylvie Courvoisier, Crystal G.




I don't do jazz. I wouldn't know how to play that.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #19303090 - 12/20/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the most important part is composition. music theory is good for reading, which is good for composition in and of itself, and which strengthens a consideration for different parts of playing that one maybe has not practiced as much, compared to others...

the playing an instrument for 10 hours a day thing is for people who play piano or viola in orchestra and shit... people who wanna play guitar like Paco DeLucia or some shit, like MASTERCRAFT guitarist or pianist...

it is HARDLY a necessity (i know that is not exactly what you are saying either) and to be expected to practice for so long is just for people who are on tour and who gig with big performances, where they are expected to play flawlessly... but i ask, what is the point if it is not even new music (your own or a fellow artist) that has not been around for forever, with people playing in and out every fuckin day.

to me, thats fuckin boring as shit, i mean, its good to practice for a few hours a day at the very least, but 10 hours... ok, then have fun at your Vivaldi concert; that shit, you gotta be tough as nails... and it isnt even like its YOUR music, its some old song from half a century-century+ ago :lol:

not trying to complain... just saying, it surely aint for everyone.
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you should check out Mark Feldman - Music for Violin and Music for Violin and Piano with Sylvie Courvoisier, Crystal G.




I don't do jazz. I wouldn't know how to play that.



so, you dont have to play it to enjoy it. just listen :shrug: didnt know you didnt do Jazz, G. Jazz and Classical music is some of my favorite music.

ever heard of Franco Ambrosetti - Music for Symphony and Jazz Band (wow annoying my keyboard is jacked, i have to restart my computer, i canèt type with no question mark key, stupid...)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19303151 - 12/20/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
it is HARDLY a necessity (i know that is not exactly what you are saying either) and to be expected to practice for so long is just for people who are on tour and who gig with big performances, where they are expected to play flawlessly... but i ask, what is the point if it is not even new music (your own or a fellow artist) that has not been around for forever, with people playing in and out every fuckin day.




Do you think anybody who has created music in the 20th and 21st century has been anywhere CLOSE to the musical genius of Bach?

If not, then why is composing music so important, if it's going to be, let's be honest, nowhere near as good?

With all due respect, even "good" musicians such as Queen who composed their own music, are on a completely different level than say, Rachmaninov.

Quote:

didnt know you didnt do Jazz, G. Jazz and Classical music is some of my favorite music.




Yea, I am only trained classically.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: Crystal G]
    #19303186 - 12/20/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

frankly Bach is pretty G but i like more avant garde works of the turn of the century, quite more, honestly.

not but a matter of opinion though. which Bach are we talking about anyways, i assume we are talking Johann Sebastian Bach here; big ole Requiem in D minor Bach, right... (scratch that, that's Mozart, what am i thinking :lol:; well there is another of the "runners" for best of the best)

well, not much might reach those heights, as it were but there are plenty of runners... Beethoven, Liszt, Webern

whatever, just plain lots. :lol: i cant remember them all by name yet.

but see, more then i like Romantic era (even Baroque era) and Classical era music, i like modern composition more... like Stravinsky, or Earle Brown (for the avant garde type stuff)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: I Don't Understand People Who Say Studying Art and Music is Worthless [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19303239 - 12/20/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Morton Feldman, Steve Reich, John Cage, Chrstian Wolff does any of this modern composition do any thing for you, G? that's my main forte right now; i've only recently started getting to the "classical era" stuff, myself.

still immensely awesome... Marc-Andre Hamelin is a great Pianist, and he has this album of Etudes, made with other composers in mind (like one OP has him combining three of Mozarts sonata on piano into one piece, for example; or another has him doing an OP in the style of Liszt on another.) they are all fascinating; and new compositions as well.


Edited by akira_akuma (12/20/13 02:45 PM)


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