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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Whatever happens, let us See
    #19302846 - 12/20/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Whatever thoughts arise as obstacles to one's sadhana - the mind should not be allowed to go in their direction, but should be made to rest in one's self which is the Atman, one should remain as witness to whatever happens, adopting the attitude 'Let whatever strange things happen, happen; let us see!' This should be one's practice. In other words, one should not identify oneself with appearances; one should never relinquish one's self.  - Sri Ramana

I love this approach to meditation, especially this part

'Let whatever strange things happen, happen; let us see!'

Its such an open approach, just be yourself and cease buying into any appearances, stay true to yourself, whatever that is

Whatever happens, whatever appears, whatever you see in the world, whatever emotions you see within you, remain as you Are

It can feel hard to stop buying into appearances, to stop thinking of yourself as something, whether it be your body or your thoughts or your feelings or anything else you can become (think the recent salvia reports!) it can feel hard to just drop it all, but why?
In my opinion the fear that we do not exist beyond appearance holds us back from letting go of appearance, yet through 'being as you already are' you can begin to intuitively let go of appearance, if the fear arises, it's another appearance, be as you are

Its a practice of being as you already are and leaving the definition of that totally open to whatever it is, whatever you are, it's not a practice of believing that you are beyond appearance, it's a practice that lacks all assumption, just be yourself & don't believe anything

After all the only thing you can trust is yourself right?


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Offlineall this beauty
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Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Chronic7]
    #19302903 - 12/20/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nice, Chronic.  I don't buy into all of it, but I like the gist of what you're saying.

"...just be yourself and cease buying into any appearances, stay true to yourself, whatever that is"

Word.

Can't improve upon that statement, my friend.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: all this beauty]
    #19302926 - 12/20/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
I don't buy into all of it




Good, that's the point :wink:


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OfflineIcyus
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Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
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Last seen: 8 years, 27 days
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: all this beauty]
    #19302947 - 12/20/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I find it usefull at times, though for journeying it is quite pointless.. one needs a problem, and gets the solution..  journeying recreationally is quite ..  though one may use this tecnique.. and the will find their problem if they have none.. though in both meditation and tripping.. this is time consuming, andin my opinion wastes the magic, the power of tripp-thinking..


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Chronic7]
    #19302977 - 12/20/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

He's shoulding all over everyone. :nono:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Icelander]
    #19306183 - 12/21/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Um, he's saying you should do the exact thing your sig says :grin:

At least the second part


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Chronic7]
    #19306575 - 12/21/13 06:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Where in my sig is there any should's?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Icelander]
    #19306671 - 12/21/13 07:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Clearly there isn't, but its saying the same thing in my eyes, but everything is saying the same thing to me so... :crazy2:


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OfflineIcyus
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Registered: 11/07/13
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Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Chronic7]
    #19306818 - 12/21/13 08:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It is the difference between commanding and suggesting.. both can be used to apply a truth, for good or worse, though the commanding will not be pleasant to the subconsciouss of someones mind as it removes their defenses by deminishing their ego.. not that the ego is less existent, though it will be in a different form, the kind that feels sorry for one self..
-A dummies guide to hypnosis.

It is kind of like chosing punishment over patience in teaching..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


Edited by Icyus (12/21/13 08:11 AM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Icyus]
    #19307910 - 12/21/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

When i read the title of this I instantly knew who said it.

I got stuck with the process of self inquiry though. My attempts at inquiry are only happening in the mind. This kind of inquiry can be helpful in uncovering some layers of ego but after that point it becomes quite useless. Ramana Maharshi makes it clear that the Self is beyond the mind and thus one's inquiry must eventually lead one beyond the mind. I have gotten glimpses of this many times during inquiry and with other practices but none of these glimpses have happened to me recently. When I try to self inquire these days, I am painfully aware I am just playing a little game with my mind that is leading nowhere. I feel like I have forgotten how to go beyond the mind.

THis is why Tony Parsons is appealing to me right now. He is saying forget about trying to go to go beyond the mind.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Chronic7]
    #19308010 - 12/21/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Clearly there isn't, but its saying the same thing in my eyes, but everything is saying the same thing to me so... :crazy2:




I agree it may be saying the same thing but that was beside my point.  Shoulding is generally a negative imo. Telling someone they should do something is a subtle form of psychological pressure asserted by those in power positions.  It would be much better to tell someone why it would be good or efficacious to do something rather than just saying they should.  It's one of those red flag words for me. :laugh:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Registered: 11/10/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Deviate]
    #19308018 - 12/21/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

there is no such entity as seeing being ..this is wrong to me

conscious is the way of being free out of everything, but then it is about realizing oneself as a full individual that can act present in objective ways in case it needs to do so or in case objective reality needs some free present supports

being individuals so free from everything is not to see everything, but it is on the contrary to be able to mean something right through moving realistically

looking at something existing is wrong, since if the thing seen exist what is the one seeing it ?? it cant be existing too

existence is same fact, while realities of existence can be plural but then they must be real first with each others existence before meaning its own freedom right out

that is why or how individuals must act relative always towards anything even if they mean hating something, they must be clear about it before leaving

existence is the truth, so any is in a way related to another thing, not recognizing it clearly when seeing something happening or still, makes one being not true then so cant claim anything about own self either later

being relative is active fact and never a passive one

passively you are then meaning being free from everything but it is a subjective will .. and not right, since meaning its freedom by looking at everything so abusing else existence

freedom right, is only to conscious realizations with else existence rights first


Edited by absols (12/21/13 01:26 PM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Icelander]
    #19308164 - 12/21/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Clearly there isn't, but its saying the same thing in my eyes, but everything is saying the same thing to me so... :crazy2:




I agree it may be saying the same thing but that was beside my point.  Shoulding is generally a negative imo. Telling someone they should do something is a subtle form of psychological pressure asserted by those in power positions.  It would be much better to tell someone why it would be good or efficacious to do something rather than just saying they should.  It's one of those red flag words for me. :laugh:




I think you're a little nuts. Just look at the irony of your initial post:

"He's shoulding all over everyone. :nono:"

Without question you are implying that he shouldn't should. Thats shoulding. How can you possibly say that if you dont believe in shoulding?

Secondly, you seem to be completely ignoring context. If you're baking a pie according to a recipe I have and I tell you that you should set the oven to 350 degrees would you accuse me of abusing my authority as " master recipe holder" and asserting subtle psychological pressure on you? Its absurd. It's not always better or necessary to tell someone why they should do something. Sometimes its difficult or unecessary to explain exactly why. For example, you might be able to cook the pie at a different temperature, but its just not necessary to discuss that unless there is a specific reason you dont want to bake it at 350.

In the case of Ramana Maharshi, he did not walk around preaching to people and telling them what they should or should not do. The vast majority of his teachings came as a direct of people coming to him and asking him questions which he was polite enough to spend his life answering. So in the context of the statements you are reading, they were directed at people who were specifically interested in attaining Self-realization through self inquiry. That is the context. So Ramana Maharshi was essentially saying to them if you wish to obtain the results you claim to desire, self inquiry should be done in this way. As for why it would be efficacious, he explained that over and over again throughout his teachings.

in light of this information do you see how absurd your response was?


Edited by Deviate (12/21/13 02:01 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Deviate]
    #19308626 - 12/21/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My responses are never absurd  you of all people should know that.

I tell you that you should set the oven to 350 degrees

Set the oven to 350 degrees. 

Fixed. :lol:

Really though I was mostly joking in that post however I do think one should say why rather than just should.  I did explain my position rather than just saying should. Therefore I'm a better guru. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Icelander]
    #19308660 - 12/21/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'll keep that in mind if you ever ask me for one of my recipes.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Whatever happens, let us See [Re: Deviate]
    #19310562 - 12/22/13 04:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
When i read the title of this I instantly knew who said it.

I got stuck with the process of self inquiry though. My attempts at inquiry are only happening in the mind. This kind of inquiry can be helpful in uncovering some layers of ego but after that point it becomes quite useless. Ramana Maharshi makes it clear that the Self is beyond the mind and thus one's inquiry must eventually lead one beyond the mind. I have gotten glimpses of this many times during inquiry and with other practices but none of these glimpses have happened to me recently. When I try to self inquire these days, I am painfully aware I am just playing a little game with my mind that is leading nowhere. I feel like I have forgotten how to go beyond the mind.

This is why Tony Parsons is appealing to me right now. He is saying forget about trying to go to go beyond the mind.




That's nice, if you forget about trying to do anything with the mind, you remain as you are, which is naturally beyond the mind :wink:
Trying to go beyond the mind is in the mind, so if you stop trying, you're just here as you are

I find Self-inquiry can be mental if it's left as a thought process, really it's not a thought process but remaining as you are, which is already beyond thought, it's actually an intuitive non-thought based contemplation devoid of religion, scripture, teachings etc...
Initially you can use the thought 'who am i?' or 'to whom does this come?' basically questioning yourself, a gentle reminder to stop thinking of yourself as the known (thoughts) & to remain as the unknown (beyond thought), Ramana likened this to a stick stirring a fire that gets consumed by the fire itself, you think of the unknown through introspection until you recognize yourself and All else as that unknown

I believe Parsons acknowledges this approach of remaining as the unknown, at least the one long video i watched of him he said its all about unknowing

You should love this



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