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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19302466 - 12/20/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fred Teddy said:
FT
Quote:
listerine said: Well i got this from a spore print, transfered to a petri dish, then once more. From there a liquid culture, which I know you hate. I have done maybe 30 grain jars from the LC, and 4 of them became contaminated over time. some Black contam.
But the grain spawn that i did use, looked fine visually.... There was a jar which had a bit of yellow water in one area, not sure if that was a contam or just metabolites, but i didn't use that. My sterilization protocol, I think is pretty good, as I have some training in that area.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I suspect contaminated spawn. I see no reason the horse manure wouldn't colonize if it were anything else. Even if it's a bit dry or too wet, it should colonize at least some.
I suspect bacteria infection in your spawn. Give the smell test every jar before using. One bad jar of spawn in a bulk substrate, even if the other grain spawn was OK, can ruin it all. RR
bacteria
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19302508 - 12/20/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Fred Teddy said:
FT
Quote:
listerine said: Well i got this from a spore print, transfered to a petri dish, then once more. From there a liquid culture, which I know you hate. I have done maybe 30 grain jars from the LC, and 4 of them became contaminated over time. some Black contam.
But the grain spawn that i did use, looked fine visually.... There was a jar which had a bit of yellow water in one area, not sure if that was a contam or just metabolites, but i didn't use that. My sterilization protocol, I think is pretty good, as I have some training in that area.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I suspect contaminated spawn. I see no reason the horse manure wouldn't colonize if it were anything else. Even if it's a bit dry or too wet, it should colonize at least some.
I suspect bacteria infection in your spawn. Give the smell test every jar before using. One bad jar of spawn in a bulk substrate, even if the other grain spawn was OK, can ruin it all. RR
bacteria

And as an aside, I've never seen a single instance of dunking fully colonized and clean grain spawn causing contam, in the hundreds of tubs I've done and all the people I've spoken to on here
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302515 - 12/20/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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even if its bacteria, it would grow in patches..
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302519 - 12/20/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can tell you haven't grown many shrooms, Aero.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302522 - 12/20/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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op check franks sig out there are far netter approaches then the steps you took and good luck
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302525 - 12/20/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: I can tell you haven't grown many shrooms, Aero.

just a few kg Frank
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302535 - 12/20/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: just a few kg Frank 
I grow that many in a month 
Just saying, your advice is pretty suspect, bud. Keep reading 
Quote:
cronicr said: op check franks sig out there are far netter approaches then the steps you took and good luck

I specialize in working with bulk and grains
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302545 - 12/20/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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im aware that u are the big EGO mushroom guru here but even with bact contams op would have seen growth in the sub
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 4 days
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302561 - 12/20/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: even if its bacteria, it would grow in patches..
Actually, not necessarily. The surest sign of bacteria contamination in grains is when you shake the jar and then nothing recovers. A week later you still see the individual, greasy-looking grains. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302577 - 12/20/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Actually the OP would have seen zero growth if his grains were badly contam'd. I've seen it before.
I see you are here to try to argue your way to becoming somebody, I always find that pretty adorable. 
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19302592 - 12/20/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Aero said: even if its bacteria, it would grow in patches..
Actually, not necessarily. The surest sign of bacteria contamination in grains is when you shake the jar and then nothing recovers. A week later you still see the individual, greasy-looking grains. RR
i had grain jars ( millet ) that took forever to recover after shaking it but there was no sign of wet spot whatsoever, then fruited like the ones i didnt shake no metabolites no funky smell nothing as the OP stated he used fully colonized jars.. i still think that the bacterial contam isnt the answer in this case
and frank it isnt the case, i see this from my point of view, wheres u are right and everybody else is wrong, got it?
if u look around u can find many logs dealing with contaminated jars used as spawn, as a part of an experiment, and it colonized the substrate with no problem
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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blueconfusion
Strangest


Registered: 12/14/12
Posts: 1,727
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302640 - 12/20/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Bacteria.
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blueconfusion
Strangest


Registered: 12/14/12
Posts: 1,727
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: blueconfusion]
#19302660 - 12/20/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it was slightly evident in one jar without a smell test you just may not have seen it as prevalent in the other jars. It had nothing to do with soaking grains I do this all the time with no problems. The improperly pastuerized sub coupled with the moist environment is a breeding ground fora fast moving bacteria.
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tga8706
Stranger


Registered: 10/31/13
Posts: 157
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302677 - 12/20/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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shroomnub4u
college dropout

Registered: 02/27/13
Posts: 80
Loc: ut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302749 - 12/20/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I got to agree with Areo. Let's first get a successful colonization of a monotub before adding extra steps where someone could mess up. The OP said the sub was close to field capacity. So if by chance it was a little too wet, adding grains spawn that has been rehydrated and then not properly dried before adding to the substrate can over saturate the monotub. And from my own experience I have found that monotubs that are too wet will have a hard time colonizing. On the flip side of this, I have found that rehydrating my grain spawn when done right is very very very beneficial.
-------------------- “Develop success from failures. Discouragement and failure are two of the surest stepping stones to success.” Dale Carnegie "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” Mark Twain
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blueconfusion
Strangest


Registered: 12/14/12
Posts: 1,727
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: shroomnub4u]
#19302944 - 12/20/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Properly dried? I drain mine for about 20 seconds at most. I'm not ruling out a bacteria because a bacteria can sit unseen in a fully colonized grain jar, but I As you said you can't rule out an overly wet sub, but ime it has to be pretty wet for healthy mycelium to not colonize.
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Fred Teddy
Flying with Turkeys


Registered: 07/18/11
Posts: 208
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: blueconfusion]
#19303481 - 12/20/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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2 choices imo. There are lots of different bacterias out there, they all do different stuff. Usually bad. Either the spawn is sick due to the bac (probably), or the sub won't let anything grow in it (maybe). If nothing will grow then the sub could be downright toxic. I still would not count out improperly aged, high nitrate manure. The first thing that happens is nitrogen combines with any urea present and produces ammonia. Nothing grows in the presence of ammonia that I know of. The pH of the sub would tell. Leach the crap (literally) out of 'new' manure first.
Peace, FT
-------------------- ... its all about fun and games ... and no one has poked their eye out ... yet. Peace. Disclaimer: Fact is ... Its all fiction.
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blueconfusion
Strangest


Registered: 12/14/12
Posts: 1,727
Last seen: 9 hours, 44 minutes
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Fred Teddy]
#19303631 - 12/20/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I forgot about the manure not being aged that is a huge possibility!!!
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Fred Teddy]
#19303636 - 12/20/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fred Teddy said: 2 choices imo. There are lots of different bacterias out there, they all do different stuff. Usually bad. Either the spawn is sick due to the bac (probably), or the sub won't let anything grow in it (maybe). If nothing will grow then the sub could be downright toxic. I still would not count out improperly aged, high nitrate manure. The first thing that happens is nitrogen combines with any urea present and produces ammonia. Nothing grows in the presence of ammonia that I know of. The pH of the sub would tell. Leach the crap (literally) out of 'new' manure first.
Peace, FT
this is more likely imo
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19303650 - 12/20/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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fresh poo-unsoaked straw-iffy field capacity- a jar that had metabs(i know he didn't use it )=Quote:
cronicr said: op check franks sig out there are far better approaches then the steps you took and good luck
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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