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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19305456 - 12/20/13 10:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There is a thing called a "darwin award" that are given to people that through their stupidity remove themselves from the gene pool. From an evolutionary standpoint it makes no difference whether you commit sucide, die from some accident, or choose not to have kids. Either of those outcomes results in a "darwin award".


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19305466 - 12/20/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

koods said:
You don't understand that it is the genome that is optimizing its own survival. Sometimes that means sacrificing an individual for the benefit of a larger set of people who have similar genes... Family.



The fact that I disagree with your assessment is not an indication that I do not understand your premise.

Not reproducing is simply a defect. It is not an altruistic characteristic useful for group survival. In fact, even in times of overpopulation the one that produces the most offspring will be the most evolutionary successful. You seem to misunderstand the concept you are championing in fact. The goal is to reproduce and pass on certian genes. Overpopulation or not reproducing is the ultimate biological goal. Your premise that not reproducing can pass on the best genes fails every test of the most basic premises of natural selection.




I would have agreed with the premise in your finest sentence - that it is possible that you understand what I've said, but disagree. However, you then continue on and shoot yourself in the foot by demonstrating that you really don't have a very clear understanding of evolution via natural selection.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19305472 - 12/20/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
There is a thing called a "darwin award" that are given to people that through their stupidity remove themselves from the gene pool. From an evolutionary standpoint it makes no difference whether you commit sucide, die from some accident, or choose not to have kids. Either of those outcomes results in a "darwin award".




You know about the Darwin Award. you should learn more about Darwinian theory.

Your siblings carry the same genes as you do. If your death or childlessness allows them to be more successful procreators, then you have furthered the goal of your genes,

People from your region carry similar genes. People from your country have more genetic commonality than pekoe from across the ocean. This is why we have tribes, and clans, and mafias and standing armies.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/20/13 10:36 PM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19305570 - 12/20/13 10:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

A desire to not reproduce is a defect punished by an evolutionary dead end. And such defectives should be evolutionary dead ends. That is natural selection at its finest.



Thank god we evolved beyond fucking moneys in the African plains. The same brain that allows us to make the rational decision not to have children is the same brain that allows us to create the technological marvels and society we have today.



People brain damaged enough to think not having kids is a great idea will not have posterity to enjoy those technological marvels because their defective genes will be eliminated from the future population. Only those that have sex and reproduce will have any future value to the species or to future evolutions from the species. That is proof of the continuing evolution of the human species. Its harsh and you can criticize it but its a statement of fact not opinion. If you make that "rational" deecision to not have kids, your rational brain capable of believing such a thing will be eliminated from both the human species and future evolution.



brain damage? Really? :doublefacepalm:
by your logic those who are homosexual are brain damaged


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Think for yourself, question authority


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19305581 - 12/20/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not brain damaged. I'm helping my sister be a slut.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19306182 - 12/21/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Quote:

A desire to not reproduce is a defect punished by an evolutionary dead end. And such defectives should be evolutionary dead ends. That is natural selection at its finest.



Thank god we evolved beyond fucking moneys in the African plains. The same brain that allows us to make the rational decision not to have children is the same brain that allows us to create the technological marvels and society we have today.



People brain damaged enough to think not having kids is a great idea will not have posterity to enjoy those technological marvels because their defective genes will be eliminated from the future population. Only those that have sex and reproduce will have any future value to the species or to future evolutions from the species. That is proof of the continuing evolution of the human species. Its harsh and you can criticize it but its a statement of fact not opinion. If you make that "rational" deecision to not have kids, your rational brain capable of believing such a thing will be eliminated from both the human species and future evolution.





Damn, that totally reminds me of a feminist science fiction writer who was writing about the future. In the future, women are treated like slaves and forced to be artificially inseminated at will and hooked up to artificial wombs to create cyborg slave babies "for the future of the race."

Damn I totally forgot who wrote that.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19306186 - 12/21/13 02:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Margret Atwood?

Yes. (To answer my own question)

Handmaid's Tale


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (12/21/13 02:51 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,672
Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19306211 - 12/21/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
There is a thing called a "darwin award" that are given to people that through their stupidity remove themselves from the gene pool. From an evolutionary standpoint it makes no difference whether you commit sucide, die from some accident, or choose not to have kids. Either of those outcomes results in a "darwin award".



Nah, the reasoning seemingly makes sense, but at closer inspection, it's flawed.

Firstly, the decision to not have kids may not be genetically determined and could be a nurture instead of a nature thing.

Secondly, the trait(s) that lead to not wanting kids could rely on recessive alleles, resulting it not being apparent in the majority of the population, but it will keep recurring in a small portion of it through the generations.

Thirdly, the notion that non-child bearing couples would be an evolutionary burden to the species or a dead end is debatable as well. Non-procreating specimens can play a substantial role in raising the offspring of the fertile individuals, increasing their chances of success; focusing reproduction on a small percentage of fertile individuals instead of having the entire population procreate is a survival strategy that is present in many species.

Likely, a combination of factors is at play here, from an evolutionary perspective. Contrary to what you're arguing, this doesn't make the non-procreating couples eligible for a Darwin award; it just makes their evolutionary role a bit more complex than oversimplified reasoning would suggest.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: koods]
    #19306223 - 12/21/13 03:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Margret Atwood?

Yes. (To answer my own question)

Handmaid's Tale




Close, but no not quite. The feminist author I'm thinking of had a much more technologically revolutionary Dystopian-themed "Futurama"esque type work, filled with artificial insemination, DNA manipulation, and artificial wombs.


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Offlinesukhavati12
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19306669 - 12/21/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

-2013
-7 billion people

Wondering if not having children is wrong...


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: sukhavati12]
    #19306850 - 12/21/13 08:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"Is not wanting kids ok??"

It depends upon what factors are in play. Do you ask the shroomery community? Do you ask if it is interculturally accepted? Do you ask the moral?

You are doubting yourself.. in the end.. go ask yourself! There will allways be those who agree and disagree and sometimes also thlse who remain indifferent.. consult yourself, have your partner do the same, meditating over it maybe, and share your thoughts. That is what matters. Not peoples different views on you, nomatter their understandings. They will differ.. and one will matter no more than yours.. not in the basic terms of atleast how I see the universe.. hope this might be of help :wink:


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19306870 - 12/21/13 08:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
I am already a fully enlightened being




Nobody is a fully enlightened being. Not even the Dalai Lama is fully enlightened. You are full of shit.

Quote:

psyconaught said:
i think more people should elect to not have children. We are already over populated and need to cut back on the baby making. Children are environmental disasters





I believe that only people with high intelligence and good physical attributes should be allowed to multiply.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: hendrix99]
    #19306878 - 12/21/13 08:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

hendrix99 said:
In many cases, I believe the opposite is true. Having kids is selfish.




I... disagree. Having children prevents you from living your life and doing things that you want to do. It prevents you from finishing school, from making more money, from going on vacation, from spending time with your friends... raising children is clearly an unselfish act, but the desire to have them is founded upon selfishness. That is, if you have them on purpose. Most people don't have them on purpose.


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19306897 - 12/21/13 08:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Crystal G.. do not be so judgemental...

Ellis Dee is not fully enlightened, though he is neither full of shit, and I would wouch for that.

even though you do not know of any who are, and even though there might never been such a person, fully enlightened, you should not so easily fall to a conclusion about something you actually amitted to know nothing about..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Invisibleacidxprincess
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19306902 - 12/21/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm debating if I even want one/: if I do, it wouldn't be until I'm 29 30.. :shrug:
But then again i could end up not even being able to have kids.


--------------------
"what do you call Discovery?
I call it rape of the natural world."

"In the end
the choice is all yours."


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: acidxprincess]
    #19306923 - 12/21/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Freeze some sperm?


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Icyus]
    #19306990 - 12/21/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icyus said:
Crystal G.. do not be so judgemental...

Ellis Dee is not fully enlightened, though he is neither full of shit, and I would wouch for that.

even though you do not know of any who are, and even though there might never been such a person, fully enlightened, you should not so easily fall to a conclusion about something you actually amitted to know nothing about..




I don't have to know him to know he's not fully enlightened. I've read his posts from the past, and they are far from even intelligent, nevermind enlightened. Nobody is 100% enlightened anyway.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Crystal G]
    #19307388 - 12/21/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
I don't have to know him to know he's not fully enlightened. I've read his posts from the past, and they are far from even intelligent, nevermind enlightened. Nobody is 100% enlightened anyway.



If you have prejudices like that... If you have opinions, beliefs and ideas of your own you have a perception filter. After you let go of all that, eliminate your ego by a slow death from 1000 cuts, peeling away the onion layers that you are, you are left with nothing. Once you are nothing you are enlightened.

Start with something simple, try to make a true statement, its not easy. Let me show you an easy example lets say I write that pi is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter. I can not know that is true, for it presupposes there is a circle.

For I know truth having stripped away my opinions, beliefs, and ideas, and I am nothing. I am a holy enlightened being separate from the hologram I seem to inhabit, and to do this I gained nothing but lost everything. I advise you to read the enlightenment trilogy for starters by Jed McKenna and read them in order beginning with Spiritual Enlightenment, the Damnedest Thing.

Kindly yours.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19307402 - 12/21/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And then, wizard Dee, one starts realizing that nothing is also a thing.. and it starts all over again..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Is not wanting kids ok?? [Re: Icyus]
    #19307425 - 12/21/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:strokebeard3:


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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