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Invisibleopenmind
curious
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,896
Re: i need help figuring out whats wrong with my brother [Re: sukhavati12]
    #19301160 - 12/20/13 03:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sukhavati12 said:
Quote:

dark hippy said:
Honestly thats what i really think it is. But what kind of sociopath
needs in depth knowledge about WW2? Like its a scary amount  about how much he could
tell you about every single ship that was in WW2. Or another weird thing
is he could tell you how many black people were in the class of 1954-? at some random abandoned school.




Could be some asperger's or HFA mixed in there. But again, without a psychologist, you can't know.





That's exactly what I was thinking as well.




Darkhippy....how old is he? You say he's a pathological liar and compulsively steals, can you elaborate on that beyond what you described in the first post? I mean pocketing bic lighters, even if common isn't that big of a deal in my opinion (I used to do this with out thinking all the time). The situation with the money he owes for the car, yea he should pay that back, but even that isn't quite something I'd stretch to compulsively stealing. Does he have any other odd behaviors or quirks other than the lying & stealing?





Being able to relate to the aspergers/hfa thing...I will say I think people really misunderstood me and often thought I was a lying-shady-sketchy person when I was younger (and maybe still?). Just because of things like no eye contact or avoiding eye contact, fumbling on my words and the tone of my voice, sometimes fidgety or awkward "nervous-like" body language/movements, generally quiet and socially awkward in general. Getting caught in situations where it was hard for me to explain myself and people automatically jump to conclusions that I was lying....

...And, even though petty, going back to the pocketing bic lighters thing. I've been accused of intentionally stealing lighters. I'm just accidentally pocketing them, but then once accused and put on the spot, throw all my social awkwardness and no eye contact into the mix and people's "lie detectors" go off and to them of course I'm lying....And there's been all sorts of similar situations where people simply don't think I'm telling the truth.




Reading into your post way more than I should, with out knowing anything about you or your brother or the situation beyond what is in this thread, I'm going to go ahead and say this....I think your brother has something going on under the surface that he might be completely oblivious, or if he's aware of these sorts of things he's not ill intentioned. And, I think you (and the family) might have it embedded in your mind that he's a compulsive liar, & steals, so even if he does to a certain extent what you perceive might be exaggerated ....



....just my 2 cents :shrug:.






-OM


.


--------------------


Edited by openmind (12/20/13 03:18 AM)


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Invisibleopenmind
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,896
Re: i need help figuring out whats wrong with my brother [Re: openmind]
    #19301207 - 12/20/13 03:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

.....or he really does compulsively steal & lie :shrug: .


I just figured I'd jump to a bit different of a direction/conclusion than everyone else in the thread seemed to jump to.






-OM


.


--------------------


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OfflineChimaira
Seasons in the abyss
Male


Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 212
Loc: Eastern United States Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: i need help figuring out whats wrong with my brother [Re: openmind]
    #19301298 - 12/20/13 04:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How old is he? Is it possible he is an addict? I was in that world for a long time. 90% of addicts are bad thieves and constantly lie.


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Offlinedark hippy
Creeping&Crawling


Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 71
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: i need help figuring out whats wrong with my brother [Re: Set]
    #19302346 - 12/20/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My brother now is 20 years old almost 21, which is bad because he can buy alcohol soon.
Are childhood wasn't the best. are father past away from leukemia when i was 8 years old, and he was 9 at the time. I Honestly couldn't tell you anything
about my childhood from ages 6-9 and i don't even know how my brother dealt with all of that. Very sad times to look back on..
Soon my Mom started dating again and she eventually married him but he never tried to be a father figure at all. He was very verbally abusive to
me and my brother and once ended up my brother and step dad fighting over fucking cheese.
as far as i remember after my dad passed is once everthing went down hill for him
lies, stealing, he would steal anything he could make a buck on. Some very valuable baseball cards, my pokemon ds games, 100$ from my parents wedding, and so forth. this has never stopped either. and i just want him to get help before its to late.


--------------------
"It ain't nothing but more hot shit
Another classic CD for y'all to vibe with
Whether you're cooling on a corner with your fly bitch
Laid back in the shack, play this track
I'm representing for the gangsters all across the world"



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Offlinedark hippy
Creeping&Crawling


Registered: 05/05/13
Posts: 71
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: i need help figuring out whats wrong with my brother [Re: openmind]
    #19302436 - 12/20/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

sukhavati12 said:
Quote:

dark hippy said:
Honestly thats what i really think it is. But what kind of sociopath
needs in depth knowledge about WW2? Like its a scary amount  about how much he could
tell you about every single ship that was in WW2. Or another weird thing
is he could tell you how many black people were in the class of 1954-? at some random abandoned school.




Could be some asperger's or HFA mixed in there. But again, without a psychologist, you can't know.





That's exactly what I was thinking as well.




Darkhippy....how old is he? You say he's a pathological liar and compulsively steals, can you elaborate on that beyond what you described in the first post? I mean pocketing bic lighters, even if common isn't that big of a deal in my opinion (I used to do this with out thinking all the time). The situation with the money he owes for the car, yea he should pay that back, but even that isn't quite something I'd stretch to compulsively stealing. Does he have any other odd behaviors or quirks other than the lying & stealing?





Being able to relate to the aspergers/hfa thing...I will say I think people really misunderstood me and often thought I was a lying-shady-sketchy person when I was younger (and maybe still?). Just because of things like no eye contact or avoiding eye contact, fumbling on my words and the tone of my voice, sometimes fidgety or awkward "nervous-like" body language/movements, generally quiet and socially awkward in general. Getting caught in situations where it was hard for me to explain myself and people automatically jump to conclusions that I was lying....

...And, even though petty, going back to the pocketing bic lighters thing. I've been accused of intentionally stealing lighters. I'm just accidentally pocketing them, but then once accused and put on the spot, throw all my social awkwardness and no eye contact into the mix and people's "lie detectors" go off and to them of course I'm lying....And there's been all sorts of similar situations where people simply don't think I'm telling the truth.




Reading into your post way more than I should, with out knowing anything about you or your brother or the situation beyond what is in this thread, I'm going to go ahead and say this....I think your brother has something going on under the surface that he might be completely oblivious, or if he's aware of these sorts of things he's not ill intentioned. And, I think you (and the family) might have it embedded in your mind that he's a compulsive liar, & steals, so even if he does to a certain extent what you perceive might be exaggerated ....



....just my 2 cents :shrug:.






-OM


.



When i said pocketing a bic, ir was just an example about how he would lie about he stole it in till you stripped searched him and found the ligher on him, and even still he would lie about it. He moves his hands 
rapidly together randomly, when he draws boats or somthing, or eating.
We all know he starts lying when he makes these dumb stories up and
we can't say anything about it because he will just lie and lie and lie. Once he stole my Dads rifle my grandparents were saving for  us till we were older, and they knew he stole it and would not tell us what he did. it took us calling every pawn shop around till one said they had it till he told the truth. And there are many stories like that were we had to go that far because of his lies.


--------------------
"It ain't nothing but more hot shit
Another classic CD for y'all to vibe with
Whether you're cooling on a corner with your fly bitch
Laid back in the shack, play this track
I'm representing for the gangsters all across the world"



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Invisibleopenmind
curious
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,896
Re: i need help figuring out whats wrong with my brother [Re: dark hippy]
    #19304315 - 12/20/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dark hippy said:
When i said pocketing a bic, ir was just an example about how he would lie about he stole it in till you stripped searched him and found the ligher on him, and even still he would lie about it. He moves his hands  rapidly together randomly, when he draws boats or somthing, or eating.
We all know he starts lying when he makes these dumb stories up and
we can't say anything about it because he will just lie and lie and lie. Once he stole my Dads rifle my grandparents were saving for  us till we were older, and they knew he stole it and would not tell us what he did. it took us calling every pawn shop around till one said they had it till he told the truth. And there are many stories like that were we had to go that far because of his lies.





I see....Does sound like he has a bit of a problem with lying & stealing.

What do you mean "he moves his hands rapidly together"?....Things like that remind me of "stims" that many on the autism spectrum have. The classic stereotypical one being "hand flapping", something I've never done but many on the spectrum seem to. Or just random repetitive movements with the hands, fidgeting with something, hand twisting, hand rubbing, pulling of fingers, tapping, there's all sorts.



The one person I've known in my life that I'd consider a full on compulsive liar would often just lie about fantastical and exaggerated stories....just off the wall stories that we all knew were bullshit. It was annoying, but I still felt bad for the guy. It was like he was on auto-pilot and couldn't help but let exaggeration & embellished stories fly out of his mouth.

He seemed to mean well, just couldn't snap out of the lying. It was as if he was trying to compensate for something, just trying to make up stories to fit in because his life background wasn't the best and he didn't have much otherwise. From the little I know about him, his background/story sounds very similar to the bit you described in your previous post about you and your brother's childhood/growing up and the loss of your father (he lost his father at a young age as well).




So I dunno....there's obviously something going on under the surface, likely something he came into this world with that was only made worse with growing up through life & the childhood you somewhat described. Some in this thread are saying sociopath, my initial thought was autism spectrum with a slew of other troubles & issues on top of that, but that was just my initial thought :shrug: . But I'm not a psychologist, even if everyone in this thread was, there's no way to come to conclusions about someone's suspected diagnosis from some words on a screen. And even then, I hate to pigeon hole and slap labels onto people :shrug: .

What I've been spewing in this thread is just from what I know in regards to those two diagnosis, and from knowing a few people in my life that are very similar to the way you describe your brother.



An overly simplified and stereotypical break down of the two....


Sociopaths have natural social intuition. Often have very good social skills. They often manage to come across as nice, reliable and charming but they don't have a conscience nor moral values. They are capable of doing anything to get what they want and they don't care if they hurt and damage others in the process. A lot of sociapaths are very successful in mainstream society and you will find them in all walks of life. They can easily tell when someone is upset or frightened, but they don't care. Sociopaths can have a natural charm that makes it easy for them to manipulate others. Some may actually get a rush from seeing other people upset.


Autism spectrum/"High functioning autism"....often have rigid opinions about good and bad, justice and injustice and so on. Lack of social skills. Often mean well but their intentions are misunderstood because of awkwardness. Many find it hard to obtain and keep jobs. Have difficulty noticing things like if someone is anxious unless it's really obvious. It's not that they don't care about other people's emotions, but it's more like they're oblivious. Also unlike sociopaths, people on the autism spectrum usually find it easy to empathize with animals. Also have a hard time using social charm and the ability to manipulate others is minimal.

Those on the spectrum have lower Theory of the Mind, which is sometimes referred to as cognitive empathy, while psycho/sociopaths have average or high of this. Those on the spectrum/HFA actually tend to have average or high effective empathy, which is the common use of the word and is the thing that psycho/sociopaths lack. The reason those on the spectrum are sometimes thought to lack empathy is because we have difficulty expressing emotion appropriately.


Sociopath= Lacks empathy (and guilt too)

ASD= Trouble expressing/understanding empathy


Cognitive empathy: sociopaths are masters of this, not so much for those on the spectrum.

Emotional empathy: Sociopath probably don't even know the proper definition of "feelings", when those on the spectrum tend to be very sensitive to such things.





-OM

.


--------------------


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