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listerine
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Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure
#19300984 - 12/20/13 01:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What could be wrong? Monotub has a bit of g/e, I followed RR's video instructions, additionally I soaked the spawn grain in water, for 20 mins.
Its 50/50, manure/straw. roughly field capacity. condensation in the tub. Covered with Aluminum foil, with holes poked.
This is the second time that I have screwed up at this stage. I don't know what im doing wrong. Ideas?
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cronicr



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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19301024 - 12/20/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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How long has it been,what are the temps,roughly at field capacity sounds iffy lol Where did the poo come from
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
Edited by cronicr (12/20/13 03:12 AM)
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19301278 - 12/20/13 04:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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what was the poo temp when u mixed in the wbs?
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301281 - 12/20/13 04:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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u are not supposed to soak the spawn grain as u can wash off the mycelium and roughly field capacity is not field capacity some pictures would help though
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301299 - 12/20/13 04:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: u are not supposed to soak the spawn grain as u can wash off the mycelium and roughly field capacity is not field capacity some pictures would help though
Soaking spawn has shown to be helpful especially if they have dried out from long colonization times. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17616982#17616982
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: tga8706] 1
#19301313 - 12/20/13 04:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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lets not go there, u add the spawn to hydrated manure/straw mix, which has more then enough water for a good few flushes
if the OP is having trouble getting the spawn to colonize the sub, then one of the steps in the whole procedure might causes this
imo soaking spawn grains is unnecessary stress dunking grains for scelorita producers is a different thing, the grains sit in the jars for 6-9month
for cubes its 2-3 weeks
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301346 - 12/20/13 04:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: lets not go there, u add the spawn to hydrated manure/straw mix, which has more then enough water for a good few flushes
if the OP is having trouble getting the spawn to colonize the sub, then one of the steps in the whole procedure might causes this
imo soaking spawn grains is unnecessary stress dunking grains for scelorita producers is a different thing, the grains sit in the jars for 6-9month
for cubes its 2-3 weeks
Yes a masta don't whoop me masta. Didn't realize your were the self appointed thread moderator. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18781503
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PussyFart
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301357 - 12/20/13 04:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tga8706 said: Soaking spawn has shown to be helpful especially if they have dried out from long colonization times. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17616982#17616982
Quote:
Aero said: lets not go there
God forbid we give helpful advice.....and it does not wash off the mycellium....sure "some" of it gets washed away, but it still works.
Denial of this is just ignorance, there are a lot of threads that show the benefits of dunking your spawn.
Quote:
Aero said: imo soaking spawn grains is unnecessary stress dunking grains for scelorita producers is a different thing, the grains sit in the jars for 6-9month for cubes its 2-3 weeks
This is your opinion, but the facts say otherwise.
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THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: tga8706]
#19301368 - 12/20/13 04:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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the problem here is that the spawn doesnt colonize the sub lets just skip the "dunk the grains" shall we?
sure Notahacker its all good with dunking, but the OP hasnt been successful with it, it didnt colonize the sub, so if u add the spawn to the sub and it didnt colonize it what might be the problem then?
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PussyFart
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301374 - 12/20/13 04:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: sure Notahacker its all good with dunking, but the OP hasnt been successful with it, it didnt colonize the sub,
the dunking had nothing to do with whether or not he was successful.
Quote:
Aero said: so if u add the spawn to the sub and it didnt colonize it what might be the problem then?
Contaminated spawn........
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301377 - 12/20/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: the problem here is that the spawn doesnt colonize the sub lets just skip the "dunk the grains" shall we?
sure Notahacker its all good with dunking, but the OP hasnt been successful with it, it didnt colonize the sub, so if u add the spawn to the sub and it didnt colonize it what might be the problem then?
Gee I don't know maybe the substrate? Call me crazy
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: tga8706]
#19301387 - 12/20/13 04:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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possible, yea it even colonizes cardboard, dirt, i believe it colonizes woodchips too ( i saw a thread somewhere with that )
lets wait for the OP's response
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301402 - 12/20/13 05:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: possible, yea it even colonizes cardboard, dirt, i believe it colonizes woodchips too ( i saw a thread somewhere with that )
lets wait for the OP's response
Yes poo and straw are proven to be good substrates but your assuming he prepared the substrate properly. Don't just disregard our advice cause it's not your own, the info wasn't even presented for you to disregard that's the OPs choice. Maybe the poo wasn't aged long enough or what he thought was field capacity is actually soaked or he simply lost track of time on his pasteurizing and cut it way short who knows. He didn't exactly give us alot of info to work with.
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: tga8706]
#19301410 - 12/20/13 05:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
tga8706 said:
Quote:
Aero said: possible, yea it even colonizes cardboard, dirt, i believe it colonizes woodchips too ( i saw a thread somewhere with that )
lets wait for the OP's response
Yes poo and straw are proven to be good substrates but your assuming he prepared the substrate properly. Don't just disregard our advice cause it's not your own, the info wasn't even presented for you to disregard that's the OPs choice. Maybe the poo wasn't aged long enough or what he thought was field capacity is actually soaked or he simply lost track of time on his pasteurizing and cut it way short who knows. He didn't exactly give us alot of info to work with.
you are right but as he stated he followed RR's video, i thought he went by the book.. but yes you are right there isnt much info, thats why i said to wait for the response i used fresh hpoo worked fine btw
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301422 - 12/20/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"i used fresh hpoo worked fine btw"
That is interesting actually although I have no desire or see reason why I would end up working with poo since I'm small scale and have plenty of other options available but cool.
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: tga8706]
#19301436 - 12/20/13 05:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not even sure which RR video he is referring to because none of them involve WBS, monotubs, or a poo/straw blend
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19301587 - 12/20/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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About the 6th day now.
Ill check temps but they are roughly right.
No, like its field capacity. One issue might be the straw not being really soaked. I put the straw in dry and i feel it didnt absorb as much water as it could have.
Should I soak the straw first then mix it into the manure next time?
Poo was fresh horse.
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19301602 - 12/20/13 06:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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what was the poo temp when u mixed in the wbs?
Roughly room temperature, maybe a bit hotter but not steaming hot.
>field capacity is not field capacity
It was field capacity, really. I doubt its that but next time ill try and make it more perfect.
>Soaking spawn has shown to be helpful especially if they have dried out
I am quite quite that soaking spawn is beneficial but ill skip that for next time. just to be safe
>Contaminated spawn........
I only used spawn that i was sure wasn't contaminated. I had some jars that had a bit of yellow water, I have a feeling that was metabolites, but I didnt use that jar just to be safe.
I think it was the substrate.
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: tga8706]
#19301618 - 12/20/13 06:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I want to thank you for your level headed attitude and response.
>Yes poo and straw are proven to be good substrates but your assuming he prepared the substrate properly. Don't just disregard our advice cause it's not your own, the info wasn't even presented for you to disregard that's the OPs choice. Maybe the poo wasn't aged long enough or what he thought was field capacity is actually soaked or he simply lost track of time on his pasteurizing and cut it way short who knows. He didn't exactly give us alot of info to work with.
Some poo was aged for about 4 days, some a week. Two different batches mixed into one.
All of the poo has ages for about 2 weeks now, so I will use that.
>field capacity is actually soaked
Not soaked, slightly, very slightly dry. BUT... I don't think the straw held enough water content. However the myc hasn't colonized the manure either, so its not just the straw.
For next time, should i wet the straw first then add it to the manure?
>he simply lost track of time on his pasteurizing and cut it way short who knows
This is the thing. Last time i did this, i had the same problem, and i "pasteurized" for 3 hours. This time i did it for 2 hours.
Here is a very important thing. I am in a country where I can't get a meat thermometer. I read on some post (I read and found it twice, meaning it probably wasn't some shady site, but anyway) that you can put jars full of manure in water that cover it half way to 3/4s of the way. Then you bring that to a boil. Once that starts boiling, you turn off the flame and you cover the pot and leave it for 3 hours.
Thinking about it now, could that be the issue? I don't have a meat thermometer so that technique would work for me.
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19301622 - 12/20/13 06:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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even if u over-pasteurize it, it would grow with no problem
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301635 - 12/20/13 06:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe I underpasteurized it. check out the tek i used. Sounds legit? turn off the water when it comes to a boil, cover and leave for 2-3 hours.
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spacechildo
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301643 - 12/20/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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sounds awfully wrong. get core temp to 140-160 for 1hr. that's what the thermometer is for, to keep track of core temp. the temp of the water makes no difference, it's the poo that needs 140-160 for 60-90 mins roughly.
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: spacechildo]
#19301651 - 12/20/13 07:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
spacechildo said: sounds awfully wrong. get core temp to 140-160 for 1hr. that's what the thermometer is for, to keep track of core temp. the temp of the water makes no difference, it's the poo that needs 140-160 for 60-90 mins roughly.
doesnt matter if u over-past the sub mate u only kill more beneficial bacteria, u will get higher chances of contam but wouldnt make any difference in wether it colonizing the sub or not and in this thread this is the case now..so back up baby we all know what is pasteurization
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: spacechildo]
#19301659 - 12/20/13 07:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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How could i pasteurize without a thermometer? With the same set up if possible//
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spacechildo
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19301666 - 12/20/13 07:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
listerine said: How could i pasteurize without a thermometer? With the same set up if possible//
I really don't know. try switching poo for coir, it's more forgiving and you can try the bucket-tek. it doesn't seem to matter that much if you don't prep it correctly, I've seen good results with both sterilization and no pasteurization with coir. There's no way to tell how hot the core of your sub is vs the heat of the water. some use bags, some use jars, size of bags/jars makes a difference.
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: spacechildo]
#19301670 - 12/20/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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like what he said, coir is easier to work with, although u can try to boil the water put in the sub then leave it on the lowest gas/electricity level for 2 hours
i doubt that the pasteurization is the reason why it didnt colonize
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: spacechildo]
#19301780 - 12/20/13 07:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Someone recommended the bucket tek with manure/straw. Any issues?
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301781 - 12/20/13 07:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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>i doubt that the pasteurization is the reason why it didnt colonize
What do you think it could be then?
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spacechildo
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19301796 - 12/20/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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dont do bucket tek with anything besides coir+verm and gypsum. it's most likely your spawn, but the improper pasteurization certainly didn't help..
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: spacechildo]
#19301804 - 12/20/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What do you think is wrong with my spawn?
It hasn't been incubated for a few days, but fully colonized before that. WBS.
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spacechildo
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19301810 - 12/20/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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some contam in the spawn is probably why it won't recuperate. some pics would def. help, did u smell every jars before spawning?
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: spacechildo]
#19301812 - 12/20/13 08:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think its a contam. This has happened before, different spawn jars, visual inspection, I don't smell the jars but yeah.
I soak them in cold tap water. I think ill cut that out.
Why can't i do the bucket tek with manure/straW?
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301819 - 12/20/13 08:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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With your pasteurization tek if your using a thin pot with a loose lid once you turn off the heat you may be getting the sub to proper temp but highly doubt its staying hot long enough. But if you use a pressure cooker like i did recently using a thermometer I brought it to a boil shut it off put lid on and checked 30 minutes later sub(coir) temp was up to 150 and the water was down to 150. So I brought it back to a short boil and removed keeping the lid on tightly while off the heat and an hour later checked again it was still 150 perfect!
Did you do the squeeze test for field capacity and compare it to RRs video? even with a hard squeeze you shouldn't drip alot.
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Fred Teddy
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19301865 - 12/20/13 08:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It sounds more like a bacterial thing to me, but let it go till it is obvious its truly stalled.
Could also be ammonia left in the sub after pasteurization. 2 week old manure is a bit ripe imo. 'New' manure should be leached well before preparing, or avoided altogether. It should look the color of a paper bag or lighter. The older the better.
Here's something on the decomposition of horse manure: http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_management/composting.htm
Peace, FT
-------------------- ... its all about fun and games ... and no one has poked their eye out ... yet. Peace. Disclaimer: Fact is ... Its all fiction.
Edited by Fred Teddy (12/20/13 08:48 AM)
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spacechildo
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19301867 - 12/20/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
listerine said: I don't think its a contam. This has happened before, different spawn jars, visual inspection, I don't smell the jars but yeah.
I soak them in cold tap water. I think ill cut that out.
Why can't i do the bucket tek with manure/straW?
because manure and just about everything except coir+verm+gypsum needs to be properly pasteurized. properly pasteurized means 140-160F for an hour or so. bucket tek is just boiling water right into a bucket. you need to monitor temps, which is (as far as I can tell) impossible without a thermometer.
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Psychoslut
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19302036 - 12/20/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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A thermometer is about 3.50, just go get one.
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[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Psychoslut]
#19302160 - 12/20/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Psychoslut said: A thermometer is about 3.50, just go get one.
He can't get one in his country, evidently he lives in antartica or something.
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Psychoslut
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19302206 - 12/20/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm guessing its bacteria stopping it from colonizing. It probably stayed hot too long in the bag. Give it more time, the grain should at least brightening up and starting to reach out to the substrate by now.
If the grain isn't recovering at all this grow is probably fucked from a few different directions.
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[quote]KristiMidocean said: Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19302306 - 12/20/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I suspect contaminated spawn. I see no reason the horse manure wouldn't colonize if it were anything else. Even if it's a bit dry or too wet, it should colonize at least some.
I suspect bacteria infection in your spawn. Give the smell test every jar before using. One bad jar of spawn in a bulk substrate, even if the other grain spawn was OK, can ruin it all. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19302413 - 12/20/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well i got this from a spore print, transfered to a petri dish, then once more. From there a liquid culture, which I know you hate. I have done maybe 30 grain jars from the LC, and 4 of them became contaminated over time. some Black contam.
But the grain spawn that i did use, looked fine visually.... There was a jar which had a bit of yellow water in one area, not sure if that was a contam or just metabolites, but i didn't use that. My sterilization protocol, I think is pretty good, as I have some training in that area.
I don't know what to do. This has happened once before.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19302466 - 12/20/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Fred Teddy said:
FT
Quote:
listerine said: Well i got this from a spore print, transfered to a petri dish, then once more. From there a liquid culture, which I know you hate. I have done maybe 30 grain jars from the LC, and 4 of them became contaminated over time. some Black contam.
But the grain spawn that i did use, looked fine visually.... There was a jar which had a bit of yellow water in one area, not sure if that was a contam or just metabolites, but i didn't use that. My sterilization protocol, I think is pretty good, as I have some training in that area.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I suspect contaminated spawn. I see no reason the horse manure wouldn't colonize if it were anything else. Even if it's a bit dry or too wet, it should colonize at least some.
I suspect bacteria infection in your spawn. Give the smell test every jar before using. One bad jar of spawn in a bulk substrate, even if the other grain spawn was OK, can ruin it all. RR
bacteria
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19302508 - 12/20/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Fred Teddy said:
FT
Quote:
listerine said: Well i got this from a spore print, transfered to a petri dish, then once more. From there a liquid culture, which I know you hate. I have done maybe 30 grain jars from the LC, and 4 of them became contaminated over time. some Black contam.
But the grain spawn that i did use, looked fine visually.... There was a jar which had a bit of yellow water in one area, not sure if that was a contam or just metabolites, but i didn't use that. My sterilization protocol, I think is pretty good, as I have some training in that area.
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: I suspect contaminated spawn. I see no reason the horse manure wouldn't colonize if it were anything else. Even if it's a bit dry or too wet, it should colonize at least some.
I suspect bacteria infection in your spawn. Give the smell test every jar before using. One bad jar of spawn in a bulk substrate, even if the other grain spawn was OK, can ruin it all. RR
bacteria

And as an aside, I've never seen a single instance of dunking fully colonized and clean grain spawn causing contam, in the hundreds of tubs I've done and all the people I've spoken to on here
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302515 - 12/20/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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even if its bacteria, it would grow in patches..
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302519 - 12/20/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can tell you haven't grown many shrooms, Aero.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302522 - 12/20/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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op check franks sig out there are far netter approaches then the steps you took and good luck
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302525 - 12/20/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: I can tell you haven't grown many shrooms, Aero.

just a few kg Frank
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302535 - 12/20/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: just a few kg Frank 
I grow that many in a month 
Just saying, your advice is pretty suspect, bud. Keep reading 
Quote:
cronicr said: op check franks sig out there are far netter approaches then the steps you took and good luck

I specialize in working with bulk and grains
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19302545 - 12/20/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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im aware that u are the big EGO mushroom guru here but even with bact contams op would have seen growth in the sub
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302561 - 12/20/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aero said: even if its bacteria, it would grow in patches..
Actually, not necessarily. The surest sign of bacteria contamination in grains is when you shake the jar and then nothing recovers. A week later you still see the individual, greasy-looking grains. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302577 - 12/20/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actually the OP would have seen zero growth if his grains were badly contam'd. I've seen it before.
I see you are here to try to argue your way to becoming somebody, I always find that pretty adorable. 
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Aero
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19302592 - 12/20/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Aero said: even if its bacteria, it would grow in patches..
Actually, not necessarily. The surest sign of bacteria contamination in grains is when you shake the jar and then nothing recovers. A week later you still see the individual, greasy-looking grains. RR
i had grain jars ( millet ) that took forever to recover after shaking it but there was no sign of wet spot whatsoever, then fruited like the ones i didnt shake no metabolites no funky smell nothing as the OP stated he used fully colonized jars.. i still think that the bacterial contam isnt the answer in this case
and frank it isnt the case, i see this from my point of view, wheres u are right and everybody else is wrong, got it?
if u look around u can find many logs dealing with contaminated jars used as spawn, as a part of an experiment, and it colonized the substrate with no problem
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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blueconfusion
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302640 - 12/20/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bacteria.
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blueconfusion
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: blueconfusion]
#19302660 - 12/20/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If it was slightly evident in one jar without a smell test you just may not have seen it as prevalent in the other jars. It had nothing to do with soaking grains I do this all the time with no problems. The improperly pastuerized sub coupled with the moist environment is a breeding ground fora fast moving bacteria.
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tga8706
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302677 - 12/20/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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shroomnub4u
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19302749 - 12/20/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I got to agree with Areo. Let's first get a successful colonization of a monotub before adding extra steps where someone could mess up. The OP said the sub was close to field capacity. So if by chance it was a little too wet, adding grains spawn that has been rehydrated and then not properly dried before adding to the substrate can over saturate the monotub. And from my own experience I have found that monotubs that are too wet will have a hard time colonizing. On the flip side of this, I have found that rehydrating my grain spawn when done right is very very very beneficial.
-------------------- “Develop success from failures. Discouragement and failure are two of the surest stepping stones to success.” Dale Carnegie "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” Mark Twain
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blueconfusion
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: shroomnub4u]
#19302944 - 12/20/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Properly dried? I drain mine for about 20 seconds at most. I'm not ruling out a bacteria because a bacteria can sit unseen in a fully colonized grain jar, but I As you said you can't rule out an overly wet sub, but ime it has to be pretty wet for healthy mycelium to not colonize.
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Fred Teddy
Flying with Turkeys


Registered: 07/18/11
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: blueconfusion]
#19303481 - 12/20/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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2 choices imo. There are lots of different bacterias out there, they all do different stuff. Usually bad. Either the spawn is sick due to the bac (probably), or the sub won't let anything grow in it (maybe). If nothing will grow then the sub could be downright toxic. I still would not count out improperly aged, high nitrate manure. The first thing that happens is nitrogen combines with any urea present and produces ammonia. Nothing grows in the presence of ammonia that I know of. The pH of the sub would tell. Leach the crap (literally) out of 'new' manure first.
Peace, FT
-------------------- ... its all about fun and games ... and no one has poked their eye out ... yet. Peace. Disclaimer: Fact is ... Its all fiction.
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blueconfusion
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Fred Teddy]
#19303631 - 12/20/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I forgot about the manure not being aged that is a huge possibility!!!
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Fred Teddy]
#19303636 - 12/20/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Fred Teddy said: 2 choices imo. There are lots of different bacterias out there, they all do different stuff. Usually bad. Either the spawn is sick due to the bac (probably), or the sub won't let anything grow in it (maybe). If nothing will grow then the sub could be downright toxic. I still would not count out improperly aged, high nitrate manure. The first thing that happens is nitrogen combines with any urea present and produces ammonia. Nothing grows in the presence of ammonia that I know of. The pH of the sub would tell. Leach the crap (literally) out of 'new' manure first.
Peace, FT
this is more likely imo
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19303650 - 12/20/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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fresh poo-unsoaked straw-iffy field capacity- a jar that had metabs(i know he didn't use it )=Quote:
cronicr said: op check franks sig out there are far better approaches then the steps you took and good luck
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: RogerRabbit]
#19305645 - 12/20/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Some more information. Out of the 3 tubs, the grains in one just look uncolonized. In the other some are colonized some arent, and in the third one, they seem to be bouncing back, going all white, but they don't appear to be colonizing any substrate.... Is any of this relevant information?
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Camtaro420
Birdman



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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19305649 - 12/20/13 11:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edit: Posted in wrong thread
Edited by Camtaro420 (12/20/13 11:22 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Camtaro420]
#19305673 - 12/20/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fresh manure may be your issue here
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19306217 - 12/21/13 03:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: Fresh manure may be your issue here
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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blueconfusion
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: Aero]
#19306458 - 12/21/13 05:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah if the grain has recovered it is your fresh manure. If all i can get is fresh i take it out back and hose it down until it's saturated then let it dry in the sun giving it a little turn here and there until it smells "earthy", and the ammonia smell is gone depending on how fresh this can take a week or two.
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blueconfusion
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: blueconfusion]
#19306469 - 12/21/13 05:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm actually doing a straw, hpoo, coffee, ewc, buffalo poo and gypsum tub right now.
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listerine
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: blueconfusion]
#19310145 - 12/22/13 12:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have manure that has aged for longer, but one question.
How would underpasteurized manure turn out? WBS wouldn't colonize it at all?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: listerine]
#19310147 - 12/22/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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it would colonize it but chances are you will end up with plenty of other shit colonizing as well, edit i thought you said unpasturized lol, too high tonight but underpasturized is basicly the same thing
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
Edited by cronicr (12/22/13 12:56 AM)
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cronicr



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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19310174 - 12/22/13 01:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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An effective pasteurization will eradicate harmful bacteria, nematodes, insects and fungi. In general a compost substrate temperature of 140o F for 1-2 hours is adequate for a complete pasteurization. To insure a complete pasteurization it is suggested to have a minimum of 1 hour crossover time, where both the air and compost substrate at 140o F together. Growers may make several compromises to this recommendation. Unless all the compost substrate surfaces and areas are exposed to this temperature range some destructive organisms may survive causing problems later in the crop.
If the compost substrate never rises much above 140o F there is minimum effect on the good microbes that convert ammonia. However on most commercial farms the compost substrate temperature reaches 140o F before the air temperature will. When this happens the compost substrate temperatures will continue to rise as the air temperature reaches and is held at 140o F. Usually the compost substrate temperature continues to climb into the high 140o F, or sometimes to 160o F and this maximum temperature is sometimes referred to as the "override." High override temperatures may kill or inactivate the good microbes. Sometimes it is necessary to have a high override because the cross over time is lengthen to insure inconsistent compost substrate is properly pasteurized. The compromise with a high override temperature is that it will take longer to convert ammonia to protein after the pasteurization, because more good microbes are killed or inactivated. To illustrate this concept we will consider the earlier example however we start pasteurization with the same number of microbes, e.g., 1 million. If we have a high override (160o F) about 90% of the good microbes are killed and we will have only 100,00 left,
If we have a lower override only 50% of the good microbes may be killed, so 500,000 will survive. Therefore it takes less time for the population to reach the maximum growth phase and the conversion of ammonia and carbohydrates continue at a faster rate. This is not to suggest to use a shorter crossover time to lower the override and reducing the kill during pasteurization to speed up conditioning. The idea is to be prepared to handle the post-pasteurization more carefully after a higher override.
if you don't get that don't worry just know that anything under 140 isn't a true pasturization ...i'm on drugs right now and thats from my journal under microbial activity
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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blueconfusion
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Re: Colonized WBS won't colonize h.manure [Re: cronicr]
#19321360 - 12/24/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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 This is my tub i did 5 days ago about to case with 50/50
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