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Scarg
Self Defecator


Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 153
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Bacteria and tupperware containers
#19298459 - 12/19/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Recently Ive been having some fantastic success colonizing my pasteurized sub in tupperware containers. I tested out 6 to see how they would go..they worked, so I kept buying more and more. Success, success, success!
Here we are a couple of cycles later, and Im having huge issues with bacteria. I work in front of a flowhood and my grain jars have all smelled perfect before I used them.
So im wondering if maybe my washing method could be causing this? As far as I can tell, the brand new containers all worked like a charm, but its after theyve been washed with soap and water with a dish scrubber, that theyve started failing. Now that I think about it..that scrubber probably has bacteria all over it..but soap and water seems like its all clean and rinsed away.
Going to buy another small pack of tupperwares and see if they do alright. In the meantime, anybody have any ideas on what else it might be? Or an effective way to clean the tupperwares?
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Sagescruffy
CH



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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19298467 - 12/19/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Have you considered cleaning them with boiling water?
-------------------- Love.  
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Camtaro420
Birdman



Registered: 11/25/13
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Loc: New Mexico
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19298474 - 12/19/13 03:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Soap and water alone could never clean your containers well enough. It's impressive they did not contaminate from the packaging.
You need to get PP5 labled containers and lids (very cheap and most commonly found these days) if you are looking to re-use your containers because these can withstand steamers and pressure cookers.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19298520 - 12/19/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's not likely your containers or the washing. Washing out tubs with soap and hot water is standard practice.
What is your substrate recipe and pasteurization tek?
What is your spawn and sterilization tek?
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Scarg
Self Defecator


Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 153
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19298581 - 12/19/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Definitely not my pasteurization tek..ive got that shit nailed down. I use franks coir/verm/gypsum to the T. Havent done it any different from the LOADS of success to now. Spawn is rye grain prepped to RR's prep..except I PC for two hours every time. Im almost certain its the containers. Having to pressure cook the empty container seems excessive. I thought soap and water was standard practice too...works for monotubs. I might go with a bleach hot water bath. But if its gotta be a PC cycle..ill try that too. How long you think I should cook for?
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19298617 - 12/19/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your spawn can easily have a contamination that's gone unnoticed. It can happen when using MS syringes because they are not likely to be 100% clean, could be your jar filters, could be your inoculation technique. could be a problem with your flowhood.
Properly pasteurized CVG is very contam resistant. The source is most likely the spawn. The question is "how is your spawn getting contaminated?"
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Nakor420
Fun Guy



Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 1,616
Loc: The Spirit World
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Sagescruffy]
#19298645 - 12/19/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sagescruffy said: Have you considered cleaning them with boiling water?
Yeah...fill them with boiling water and let them sit for a while with the lid on...are you using all your bulk sub at one time or are you storing it and using it in increments for smaller scale grows?
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GoldenArrow
Chasing self up spiral staircase



Registered: 10/05/11
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19298653 - 12/19/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're PCing the containers with the rye in it should kill anything in there....so it'd be a problem either with the seal or the inoculation process.
..or your grains are too wet now.
Edited by GoldenArrow (12/19/13 04:12 PM)
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Scarg
Self Defecator


Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 153
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: GoldenArrow]
#19298783 - 12/19/13 04:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
GoldenArrow said: If you're PCing the containers with the rye in it should kill anything in there....so it'd be a problem either with the seal or the inoculation process.
..or your grains are too wet now.
Nope. Pcing grain jars. Transferring fully colonized, musroom smelly jars to properly pasteurized sub. Putting the mixture in the tupperwares.
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Nakor420
Fun Guy



Registered: 05/02/13
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19298835 - 12/19/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you sealing it tight with the Tupperware lid?
Edited by Nakor420 (12/19/13 04:50 PM)
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Scarg
Self Defecator


Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 153
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Nakor420]
#19298864 - 12/19/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Nakor420 said: Are you sealing it tight with the Tupperware lid?
Ive been using the lids, but have drilled 5 pin sized holes (4 corners and the centre)..and covered them with fresh micropore tape each time. Like i said, the first cycle on every container worked beautifully..fully colonized in 6 days or so. Im going to try the pc. At 15psi, 30 mins should work ya?
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19298877 - 12/19/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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has nothing to do with plastics. your introducing bacteria/ contams in the handling chain.
pastuerization works when done RIGHT. and right, is not defined by mostly right, and hope for the best.
peeps set up to pasturize, make a big mess spreading shit all over. then they stand back and pasturize, and then pull the stuff out, and handle it unclean cultivator and all,same enviorment re introducing contams.
years ago, i watched a noob mix a bulk with a wood spoon in a dirty room, then pasturize, then put the spoon back in the bulk. then he wondered why he had trich.
no one ever teaches bio handling, or the nuances of contams. they just tell ya to boil it up some way, recipe style. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.
peeps have built carreers here on such shoddy handling advise. after all, anytime one of these recipe tek fails, it had to be the spores! ( or the devil of the day..plastics")
contams, and handling, really arent witchcraft............ plastics arent spoiling your day. your handling chain, and possibly your tek is.
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Edited by anne halonium (12/19/13 05:04 PM)
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19298894 - 12/19/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There's no point to taping the holes while colonizing substrate.
Your sponge and washing method would have to pretty damn shitty for it to be causing your contamination. It's your spawn.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: anne halonium]
#19298928 - 12/19/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Spores won't germinate on pasteurized substrates for at leasta few weeks, and bacteria isn't a problem in your bulk.
Anne, just keep your methods to yourself. Nobody follows your bullshit anyway. Grow your mushrooms the way you grow them and sell them for the exorbitant prices you do. Keep supporting cartels and paying for child labor in 3rd world countries.
Show me one single pic of an actual healthy mushroom (not some shriveled up crap with a tiny, thin cap because of your LEDs) and I may give you a little credit. Otherwise just stop annoying everyone.
And learn proper fucking English. You're old enough to have figured it out how to use punctuation and commas properly now. Your shit is extremely annoying to read.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19298954 - 12/19/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said:
Show me one single pic of an actual healthy mushroom (not some shriveled up crap with a tiny, thin cap because of your LEDs) and I may give you a little credit. Otherwise just stop annoying everyone.
extremely annoying to read.
your just sorta confused on bio handling, so of course your annoyed.

next.
Edited by anne halonium (12/19/13 05:15 PM)
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: anne halonium]
#19298966 - 12/19/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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oops......double post.
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Edited by anne halonium (12/19/13 05:14 PM)
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: anne halonium]
#19298984 - 12/19/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, I'm just confused as to why you call yourself an expert when every pic you've ever shown has not had one healthy mushroom in it.
Nothing personal against you, I enjoy talking to you when you're not spouting all your bullshit. I already ran the numbers, in the 3 month cycle you use, I can double your output getting only one flush per tub, and yes it's at a decent scale.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19298998 - 12/19/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That mushroom is lacking FAE. You can tell by the small cap and the thin stem. Also, I've seen it before. Not impressed.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19299016 - 12/19/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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ill imitate you and prosper. thanx for the tip. 

with your advise, im sure i can get more than 4 flush jars. these were done on nylon poms.........
glad you set me straight. i was thinking my yield could be like yours!
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twistedty
Forcefully Retired



Registered: 07/01/12
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: anne halonium]
#19299096 - 12/19/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
anne halonium said: ill imitate you and prosper. thanx for the tip. 

with your advise, im sure i can get more than 4 flush jars. these were done on nylon poms.........
glad you set me straight. i was thinking my yield could be like yours!
why do you grow in lil cups
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Camtaro420
Birdman



Registered: 11/25/13
Posts: 707
Loc: New Mexico
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: twistedty]
#19299111 - 12/19/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
twistedty said:
Quote:
anne halonium said: ill imitate you and prosper. thanx for the tip. 

with your advise, im sure i can get more than 4 flush jars. these were done on nylon poms.........
glad you set me straight. i was thinking my yield could be like yours!
why do you grow in lil cups
They look like they are cracking from lack of RH.
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CMOS
Whats next?


Registered: 01/08/12
Posts: 833
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Camtaro420]
#19299131 - 12/19/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Been gone for a couple months, glad to see there is still bickering going on between a few of the regulars. Fun stuff.
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: anne halonium]
#19299180 - 12/19/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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pints?
those pics were pry taken before most of you were even growing. cubes are soooo 1990 anyway.
we have phased out cubes last few yrs. we now grow the rare chicon nindos mexicanas more power fruits. plus stones.

in cargo case FC's

and under LED blue 450 nm with PP5 v tek style.

you can see more of these rare specimens, in capt futures thread.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16262797
kinda rare species. very few can grow em.
lemme know when your ready to upgrade. youll need a stronger skill set to do these to scale
once again, my lab has been essentially all plastic, for about a decade now. its not the plastics, its your handling, and possibly your tek.
now, allow me to advise the OP in a serious and experienced way. if the OP REALLY thinks its the plastics, soak em overnight under 10% bleach first. make sure they are immersed 100%
you can be lab sure , your cool at that point.
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Edited by anne halonium (12/19/13 07:03 PM)
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Scarg
Self Defecator


Registered: 10/17/11
Posts: 153
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: anne halonium]
#19299751 - 12/19/13 08:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The point is that it worked really really well up until a certain point. That point also happened to be the same time that the containers were being used for the second or third time. Im not saying its not the spawn. It very well could be, and ive already got some fresh stuff from spores on agar. But none of the jars smelled or looked funky..so it stands to reason that my crappy old scrubber (which is definitely full of bacteria) didnt do a good job of washing them.
Im trying an experiment with the same spawn in a few brand new containers, a couple of containers that were washed and pcd for 30 mins, and a couple that were just washed with the scrubber-no pc.
Somebody mentioned that the micropore tape during colonization is unnessecary..is that true?
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twistedty
Forcefully Retired



Registered: 07/01/12
Posts: 5,487
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19299779 - 12/19/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Scarg said: The point is that it worked really really well up until a certain point. That point also happened to be the same time that the containers were being used for the second or third time. Im not saying its not the spawn. It very well could be, and ive already got some fresh stuff from spores on agar. But none of the jars smelled or looked funky..so it stands to reason that my crappy old scrubber (which is definitely full of bacteria) didnt do a good job of washing them.
Im trying an experiment with the same spawn in a few brand new containers, a couple of containers that were washed and pcd for 30 mins, and a couple that were just washed with the scrubber-no pc.
Somebody mentioned that the micropore tape during colonization is unnessecary..is that true?
if you put anything in the pc for sterilization in a container you dont need to wash it
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anne halonium
jaguarette



Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1,908
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: twistedty]
#19299891 - 12/19/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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we use pp5 containers and loose lids for FAE, so we have no need for micropore or lid mods really.

bacteria , can be persistant sometimes. we know by law they should die under certain conditions. now explain that to the bacteria. they arent always hot on the latest memo.
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Edited by anne halonium (12/19/13 09:06 PM)
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Nakor420
Fun Guy



Registered: 05/02/13
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: anne halonium]
#19301496 - 12/20/13 05:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you have a problem with your bulk sub...
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Scarg
Self Defecator


Registered: 10/17/11
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Nakor420]
#19304997 - 12/20/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just contemplating how it might be the spawn thats the problem. Ive had MS culture going since early September. I started from print->agar->jar>g2g 10jars...and from there spawned some jars, and g2g'd more...and so on and so on. So its been about 3 months now.
Im fairly confident with my sterile technique, and having the flowhood has really put my success rate way up. So yes, im still considering that the problem is improper cleaning of the tupperwares..but......
Is it possible that the culture is just worn out due to senescence, and is simply more susceptible to bacterial contamination?
How old is too old for viable spawn?
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crackacola
Big Daddy


Registered: 12/14/13
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Re: Bacteria and tupperware containers [Re: Scarg]
#19306131 - 12/21/13 02:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dude. Quit using a sponge/scrubber for your own personal benefit. Use a washcloth. They even make washcloths w/ a scrubby side. Wash that shit after you use it. No sense in keeping dirty ass sponges/scrubbers other than maybe an SOS pad. I'm with you on that. It very well could be your sponge.
Its probably in your spawn though. Your substrate is verily contam resistant. How many generations is your G2G? You only want to go a couple generations in before starting a new run. Otherwise stuff like this happens too. Just start all over and ditch the scrubby. I bet you'll be fine again.
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FOR TRADE <---- Check out my spores for trade!
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