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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: unknown1123]
    #19298153 - 12/19/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

unknown1123 said:
Quote:

KremrBigSikter said:
Meant to? Get your intelligent design shit out of here.



Look at  your teeth and the way our digestive system works. You'd be unintelligent to come to a different conclusion elsewise.



Not really. Evolution has no purpose or design to it. Some of our teeth are optimized for tearing flesh, but that doesn't mean we were 'meant to' eat meat, it just means that early humans who had the OPTION of eating meat were favored by natural selection.

In any case, our evolutionary history has no bearing on whether or not we should eat meat today. We live in a far different world than our ancestors did. We have farming and agriculture now. We're no longer nomadic tribes traveling around and living off the local ecosystem, and our brains have evolved enough since then for us to make reasoned, ethical decisions about our diet.

Also, you'll really have to explain what you mean by "pop culture elitist shit," as I am not a vegan and did not claim I'm on my way to enlightenment. I cited peer-reviewed sources backing up my claims that eating meat is far less environmentally efficient and sustainable than eating plants. Do you consider anything that you disagree with to be "pop culture elitist shit," regardless of the evidence corroborating it?


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OfflineOliverJames
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: k00laid]
    #19298189 - 12/19/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry, probably should have been a bit clearer in my original post. This post was somewhat related to the way the animals are treated and the pain they endure but was supposed to be more focused on the disconnect between people who eat meat and the origin of the meat itself. When people see videos of slaughterhouses, many are disgusted, why? Because people don't seem to really realize that the origin of their bacon was from a living breathing animal.

Seriously, don't get me wrong, I'm not some kind of vegan elitist. I personally think the consumption of meat is necessary. Yes if your downing tons of red meat every week and not working out it will be detrimental to your health. But if you work out and treat your body right, the protein and fats derived from meat can be extremely beneficial.

I just find it interesting that people can't watch videos of animals being killed in a slaughter house. I don't know about you, but I find it easier to watch a buffalo being shot and killed with a gun shot or stabbed by a spear, then see a massive group of animals herded through a dirty factory to eventually be stunned and then torn apart. I'm not sure why, just disgusts me a bit.

I remember in HS a video was shown during a class about the meat industry and tons of kids went temporarily vegetarian, and the video wasn't even criticizing the industry, it was just explaining how it operates.


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OfflineOliverJames
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
    #19298216 - 12/19/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Are you a vegetarian/vegan Samurai Drifter? I've read loads and loads of conflicting evidence about whether the consumption of meat is truly necessary. Your definitely right on it being environmentally inefficient, but I have read a decent bit on how some meat is important to the development of the human brain


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Invisiblebilly jowl
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: OliverJames] * 1
    #19298466 - 12/19/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If slaughter houses had glass walls, there would be alot more vegetarians.

~Paul Mcartney


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Edited by billy jowl (12/19/13 03:25 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: billy jowl] * 3
    #19298575 - 12/19/13 03:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I doubt it.  What there would be a lot less of is faggots whining about animals dying for people food.  Almost every animal that dies in the wild dies a hideous death, either from disease or predation.  Some of them get lucky and a rock falls on them from a great height and kills them instantly.  That is a luxury death in nature.  Does that pampered twat not know this?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19298611 - 12/19/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Nature is cruel, this is true--but I still think most humans have an aversion to causing unnecessary suffering--not having this quality is known as being a psychopath.

Your assertion that increased knowledge of the practices within a slaughterhouse would lead to a decreased number of people complaining about said practices isn't a very logical one.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #19298656 - 12/19/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why?  I think it would habituate them.  Years ago most people lived an agrarian lifestyle and did their own killing and it didn't horrify them.  Who gives a shit if the Upper West Side wimps are distressed.  They get distressed when the buses run late.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19298731 - 12/19/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If people were directly involved with the process of slaughtering an animal, they would be less off-put by the concept of slaughtering an animal. This is true. But, the modern day slaughterhouse industry often displays levels of cruelty and suffering that are unnecessary for the actual act of slaughter. Most people are intentionally ignorant of this aspect of the industry, for the exact reason that knowledge of ones role in the unnecessary suffering of another creature makes many people uncomfortable.

If you look at most cultures that are still closely connected to a hunting or pastoral way of life, you will find that most harbour a deep respect for the animal(s) they closely associate with, and try to cause as little suffering as possible--in cases where suffering is still present, a deep awareness of the suffering and sacrifice on the part of the animal is still present.

This connection to the animal is not present for most people who buy their food prepacked from a grocer.

example:
Quote:

khoj özeeri, the Tuvan method of killing a sheep. If slaughtering livestock can be seen as part of humans’ closeness to animals, khoj özeeri represents an unusually intimate version. Reaching through an incision in the sheep’s hide, the slaughterer severs a vital artery with his fingers, allowing the animal to quickly slip away without alarm, so peacefully that one must check its eyes to see if it is dead. In the language of the Tuvan people, khoj özeeri means not only slaughter but also kindness, humaneness, a ceremony by which a family can kill, skin, and butcher a sheep, salting its hide and preparing its meat and making sausage with the saved blood and cleansed entrails so neatly that the whole thing can be accomplished in two hours (as the Mongushes did this morning) in one’s good clothes without spilling a drop of blood. Khoj özeeri implies a relationship to animals that is also a measure of a people’s character. As one of the students explained, “If a Tuvan killed an animal the way they do in other places”—by means of a gun or knife—“they’d be arrested for brutality.”




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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #19299176 - 12/19/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
If people were directly involved with the process of slaughtering an animal, they would be less off-put by the concept of slaughtering an animal. This is true. But, the modern day slaughterhouse industry often displays levels of cruelty and suffering that are unnecessary for the actual act of slaughter. Most people are intentionally ignorant of this aspect of the industry, for the exact reason that knowledge of ones role in the unnecessary suffering of another creature makes many people uncomfortable.

If you look at most cultures that are still closely connected to a hunting or pastoral way of life, you will find that most harbour a deep respect for the animal(s) they closely associate with, and try to cause as little suffering as possible--in cases where suffering is still present, a deep awareness of the suffering and sacrifice on the part of the animal is still present.

This connection to the animal is not present for most people who buy their food prepacked from a grocer.

example:
Quote:

khoj özeeri, the Tuvan method of killing a sheep. If slaughtering livestock can be seen as part of humans’ closeness to animals, khoj özeeri represents an unusually intimate version. Reaching through an incision in the sheep’s hide, the slaughterer severs a vital artery with his fingers, allowing the animal to quickly slip away without alarm, so peacefully that one must check its eyes to see if it is dead. In the language of the Tuvan people, khoj özeeri means not only slaughter but also kindness, humaneness, a ceremony by which a family can kill, skin, and butcher a sheep, salting its hide and preparing its meat and making sausage with the saved blood and cleansed entrails so neatly that the whole thing can be accomplished in two hours (as the Mongushes did this morning) in one’s good clothes without spilling a drop of blood. Khoj özeeri implies a relationship to animals that is also a measure of a people’s character. As one of the students explained, “If a Tuvan killed an animal the way they do in other places”—by means of a gun or knife—“they’d be arrested for brutality.”







It is true that there is no spiritual connection to the animal.  I have no use whatsoever for the claptrap of "spirituality".  It us complete bullshit in my opinion.  Ask the water buffalo whose entrails are being swallowed by lions while he is still lowing plaintively for help from the herd about spirituality.  Animals killed for human food die a much more humane death than almost any other animal.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19299246 - 12/19/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You miss my point. I'm referring to a humans aversion to causing undue suffering, and made no reference to spiritual concepts--respect for life does not require any metaphysical assumptions. The Tuvan example is an extreme one, but sometimes that is best to illustrate a point.

I agree that many folks are off put by the idea of killing animals, period. Their argument is not mine. I'm talking about people who are habituated to the slaughter of animals still have the aversion towards causing undue suffering, and feeling elsewise is a mark of a psychopath.

It's the difference between asking someone to kill a chicken by quickly chopping off it's head, vs killing a chicken by repeatedly smashing it against a hard object.

Once again, I'm not talking about avoiding any suffering on the part of the animal--but to avoid unnecessary suffering. Humans have means at our disposal which that lion out on the savannah doesn't.

If I had to, I would not hesitate to rip out a buffalos belly to bring it down--but, currently, I don't--and so I won't.


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InvisibleTheFakeSunRa
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: OliverJames]
    #19299600 - 12/19/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's a hell of a process getting meat to the millions and millions of Americans who enjoy eating it. If I can afford it and it doesn't make me sick I'm fine with it. Grateful for it, even. I've seen animals slaughtered in real life. It doesn't bother me at all. I think the American meat industry does a respectable job keeping it reasonably humane and efficient.


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[quote]Asante said:
You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar.

You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason.

I disendorse you.[/quote]


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19299800 - 12/19/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
You miss my point. I'm referring to a humans aversion to causing undue suffering, and made no reference to spiritual concepts--respect for life does not require any metaphysical assumptions. The Tuvan example is an extreme one, but sometimes that is best to illustrate a point.

I agree that many folks are off put by the idea of killing animals, period. Their argument is not mine. I'm talking about people who are habituated to the slaughter of animals still have the aversion towards causing undue suffering, and feeling elsewise is a mark of a psychopath.

It's the difference between asking someone to kill a chicken by quickly chopping off it's head, vs killing a chicken by repeatedly smashing it against a hard object.

Once again, I'm not talking about avoiding any suffering on the part of the animal--but to avoid unnecessary suffering. Humans have means at our disposal which that lion out on the savannah doesn't.

If I had to, I would not hesitate to rip out a buffalos belly to bring it down--but, currently, I don't--and so I won't.



OK.  I think we actually do a pretty good job of making it easier than nature


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19299818 - 12/19/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure what you mean by that.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: OliverJames]
    #19307612 - 12/21/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OliverJames said:
Are you a vegetarian/vegan Samurai Drifter? I've read loads and loads of conflicting evidence about whether the consumption of meat is truly necessary. Your definitely right on it being environmentally inefficient, but I have read a decent bit on how some meat is important to the development of the human brain



Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I would like to see sources for your claim that consumption of meat is "important to the development of the human brain." I have never heard such a thing. Many renowned and long-lived intellectuals were vegetarian, and there's plenty of evidence indicating that lifespans for vegetarians are equal to or greater than those of meat eaters.

The difference between obligate carnivores such as lions and us is that we have a choice. And while it may be worse to be eaten by a lion than have your throat cut in a slaughterhouse, overall I would say it's indisputable that wild animals have a higher quality of life than those raised in factory farms. They get to run free in their natural environment and some of them may live out their whole lives without falling victim to a predator. In short, they at least have a chance at a long and happy life. In a factory farm an animal has no freedom; they're shoved together in cramped, tiny cages which are breeding grounds for disease. In the case of cows, they're constantly hooked up to milking machines which drain every last drop from them. Combined with growth horomones, this means they have nearly doubled the cows' natural production of milk, which makes it cost effective. The downside, of course, is the suffering inflicted on the animal, which is of no consequence to the people running the business.

When you consider the amount of people who have an appetite for meat and the money to be made, it's really no surprise that cruel practices have become the norm. The fact is, the consumption of meat is unhealthy, environmentally unsustainable, and simply unnecessary. It is a choice.

Sources:

National Health Service -- Vegetarian Diet Linked to Longer Lifespan

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition -- Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans?

Compassion in World Farming -- Environment and Sustainability


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Edited by NetDiver (12/21/13 12:15 PM)


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InvisibleImpulze
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
    #19307722 - 12/21/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Death is not the problem here, we're all going to die sometime. it's the life the animals are going through...
dirty metallic slaughterhouses, full of fecies, fear and pain.

just watch: www.meatvideo.com these are just a few examples of how animals are held in mass "production" facilities.

eating meat is not necessary. our body is not quite optimal for eating meat, because of our digestive system.
there are cultures who are mostly vegetarian/vegan, like a big part of india (look up hinduism)
also we're not natural predators, without tools we couldn't do shit to harm the most animals living nearby.
ever tried beating a cattle to death, then eating it raw ?
only because we can eat meat, doesn't mean we're an omnivore, because we could eat cardboard aswell :P

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html
(also check out the sources of the site (always check sources))

if you are open minded, do the research yourself and then decide what to think.
always keep reminding yourself to check if the source is really reliable

when you feel bad about killing animals, causing them to suffer for their entire lifes by paying other people to basicly enslave and torture them, maybe you should consider your beliefs and eating habits.


Edited by Impulze (12/21/13 12:08 PM)


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: OliverJames]
    #19307867 - 12/21/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OliverJames said:
So I was watching a documentary today on the lifestyle of certain Native American tribes, and one section of the doc discussed hunting and preparing meat for the rest of the tribe. Obviously there was no legitimate footage but they interviewed some real old relatives who talked about how they would chase after buffalo on horse and they would drag it back and thank the earth for providing such food. Now I'm not a religious person, but I had a lot of respect for the appreciation and thankfulness they expressed towards the earth and the animal. The animal was also slaughtered and prepared in a wooden teepee style house.

After finishing the doc, I started thinking about our modern day meat industry and how cold and disconnected it seemed when compared to the process of hunting performed by native Americans. I mean, the whole thing seems so much colder, dirtier, more unnatural. Just watching clips of some modern day slaughterhouses makes me quite uncomfortable. I understand that they're necessary, meat is sold on a huge scale and we dont all have time to go out and hunt our buffalo. I do hope though that in the future, we improve our slaughter houses, right now they just look disgustingly industrial. I've got a bias against stuff like that though.

Thoughts?




I think butchery is a beautiful craft. I'd rather raise my own pigs though.

I've worked in a slaughterhouse and agree mostly but yes it's a neccesity for our huge population.

They get administered CO2 so they lose their conciousness, then the throat is cut/a steel rod is put through. I wish we could do this in a more humane way but one way or another you're still killing the animal and i'd rather not have chemicals in meat. I don't think you can rationalize this without being a hypocrit unless you don't eat meat at all.

Over here they utilize every bit though, we were upgrading to machinery that was designed specifically for Pig anus because it's becoming way, way more popular :lol:

The people in this industry have been of the most hilarious and cheerful kind, I really enjoyed working with them despite the conditions, they can seriously teach you A LOT.

"To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food. The body, these waterheads imagine, is a temple that should not be polluted by animal protein"

I'll eat everything and i'm grateful that we're omnivores. I felt proud bringing a quality piece of meat to the butcheryshop though at times it was a bit unnerving, the animals sometimes resembled human faces and that'd make me feel bad, that was due to the large scale though. If i'd end up lost in the woods i'd have no qualms killing an animal, hunger doesn't fare well with me. I don't eat meat everyday though, I don't think that's neccesary either :shrug:

Killing plants or killing animals, a man has to eat. i'm glad farmers take this upon them and respect them.

We're so fucked when the aliens land but then again, if we'd ever end up on another planet with life you know what i'd do? start eating everything there.



Edited by Beanhead (12/21/13 12:53 PM)


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19307901 - 12/21/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

Set said:
There are rituals present in slaughterhouses sometimes.  It's called "kosher".



I understand that's the most inhumane way of slaughtering animals too. Instead of a quick shot with a pneumadic bolt gun they get their throat slit open and hoisted up in the air by their hind legs to drain the blood. While there are better ways and more humane ways to slaughter animals it should be made a crime to slaughter animals in the kosher way. There's no reason to tolerate these savages torturing animals to death in a sadistic tribal ritul when they can get a quick shot and have no misery.




also this, fuck kosher


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Beanhead]
    #19308354 - 12/21/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The most inhumane way of slaughtering animals is that performed by non humans.  See lions eating a water buffalo's entrails while it still lowing, a parasitic wasp laying an egg in a beetle and keeping it alive until the larva hatches.  Starvation always seems like tons of fun and all animals live in fear all the time.  Do I really need to go on?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19308369 - 12/21/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You just can't get past that, eh?
"Oh, look at those animals acting inhumanely!  :crying:"

We wouldn't call it acting humanely, if they weren't qualities perceived to be uniquely human.


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InvisibletheRAPeutic
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19308376 - 12/21/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I could care less how the animal is killed, as long as I can pick up some fresh turkey meat, chicken, or steak from the market. Nothing satisfies me like meat and especially the proteins. For the most part vegetarian's are skinny or underweight, from whom I have met; not enough daily protein in vegetables.


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