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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
    #19312793 - 12/22/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think codependence is the right word.... conditional sounds better.... only time love isn't great/happy/content is when it is conditional?


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (12/22/13 05:28 PM)


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OfflineIcyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa
Male


Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 27 days
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
    #19312798 - 12/22/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The thought of it.


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: absols]
    #19312853 - 12/22/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I dunno, I guess your perceptual make up is much different then mine and I haven't understood that side of objectivity.


not based on personal feeling or opinions/having actual existence in the real world/not influenced by the mind... seems like what I said earlier would still be subjective... which definition of objectivity are you using? can you show me?


by those above definitions, nothing you say regarding mental positivity/negativity/superiority are objective; all created by the mind.. not objectively real... subjectively real yes(based on personal feeling and opinions)

objectivity is the clean slate; synonyms impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral


"when we are conscious what is the use of being?" no idea what your perceptual make up is asking here..


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: Icyus]
    #19312864 - 12/22/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icyus said:
The thought of it.





or held to a standard


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineHierophant
Ritualistic Mystic
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 942
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse] * 1
    #19312881 - 12/22/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

OP, there is no highest high because there is no limit to possibility in an ever expanding and evolving playground of potential, if you think you've achieved the "highest" level or state of mind then you are robbing yourself of the possibility of experiencing more.

just align yourself with the natural progression of the universe and expansion of consciousness and ride on the cusp of your personal evolution.

~PEACE


--------------------
There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.


Edited by Hierophant (12/22/13 05:51 PM)


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: HeartAndMind]
    #19312949 - 12/22/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

power to ya bro ham

its nice to test your might :smile:




:sunny:


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
    #19313238 - 12/22/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

True success of life depends on our growth in awareness. Success is in our spiritual evolution. Success is in our kindness expressed. Success is in liberating ourselves from all kinds of dependency. Success is in gaining simplicity. Success is in knowing oneself. Success is in success itself. All material successes are temporary and transitory. They come and go and involve either happiness or sorrow, but not equanimity. And yet, equanimity in happiness and sorrow, is the true success.

MOHANJI




Equanimity - No Regrets

I got no regrets,
I've lived my life a warrior like
Boba Fett, so when everyone around me's
Jumpin Jehosaphet!
I stay well composed, don't fret
Because a crooked path doesn't pose a threat to the most wet
Life givin river
flowing everywhere to hither where some
Boats wreck,
Fatally trying to steer clear from
Right here, capsized by their own fear then
Baptized, born again
Back to the present feeling
Warm again
Unknown paths we are chartering just
Following the nudges from the Universal stomach
The gut,
Cause following the mind you would plummet while I'm
Standing on the summit lookin down at you
like What's
Wrong with the world today? I write songs that
Try to take the hurt away, send thoughts that
Widdle down the murder rate
Wouldn't that be great?
But it seems to me that fate
Has another dish upon its plate
So my wishes they can wait, While all the
Viciousness grates upon my soul like cheddar
Cheese, please oh please! make it better while I'm
Wailin on my knees, beggin for release
Cause I cannot find the peace of mind
Needed to release the bind
That I find my mind intertwined in
Grindin my soul to little bits that could fit through the
Hole of a needle's eye
When will evil die?
When a no-winged bow-legged eagle flies
There will always be a thunderstorm beneath the skies
Still the people rise up to the occassion
Brazen, blazin a path it's amazin
One family, codename: Humanity
All the insanity and damaging could cease
If we all just plant a tree
Spreading positive seeds
More love
That's what all of us need

VERSE 2:

I used to live in bliss
Before I even knew my name was Chris
And that pure innocence is what I miss
So softly as the hiss of a cat, I dream about the
Day when I transform from this back to that
Essence, where every single day feels like a blessin
And I don't know, what the hell is stressin
I'm guessin that it's
Something that a grown up feels
I hear that a heart that was broken then sewn up heals
Eventually, it might take a century
For the light rays to get to the dark place so that
I'll maybe rest in peace
Before the day that they lower down my casket
And rot starts digestin me
Or it can happen in a fraction of a second
The mending of hearts gets me bendin like Beckham
Over,
in Joy like a witness to Jehova
Feelin more lucky than the
Fourth leaf of a clover

HOOK / BRIDGE (x2):

Damn, life is such a beautiful jam
Lets dance, hold hands make plans
Advance to the next stage, livin in the best age
In the book of life its time to turn the next page

VERSE 3:

Fresh from the inside
bowels clean, liver tight
Catch me living like a
Downstream river might
Forever flowing effortlessly
The dynamo effervescent emcee
Blessin the beat
Always stressin unique flavor like
Sesame seeds
Goin back to the basics like
Sesame street yes
The essence is peace
But bear in mind that the
Stressin won't cease cause you wish it to
You gotta get into the nitty gritty,
Face all the shitty parts of life
Stop suckling on the titty
The unexamined life ain't a life worth living so
Class, take out your magnifying glass
And hold it to the mirror
See yourself a little clearer and
Ask, are you just a passenger
Or the steerer of your lifeboat
Headed for a final destination?
If so,
Then it's time for celebration!


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: absols]
    #19313589 - 12/22/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think I may have found your definitions of objective

not familiar with it myself until now.



1

a :  relating to or existing as an object of thought without consideration of independent existence —used chiefly in medieval philosophy 

b :  of, relating to, or being an object, phenomenon, or condition in the realm of sensible experience independent of individual thought and perceptible by all observers :  having reality independent of the mind <objective reality> <our reveries … are significantly and repeatedly shaped by our transactions with the objective world — Marvin Reznikoff> — compare subjective 3a 

c of a symptom of disease :  perceptible to persons other than the affected individual — compare subjective 4c 

d :  involving or deriving from sense perception or experience with actual objects, conditions, or phenomena <objective awareness> <objective data>

2

:  relating to, characteristic of, or constituting the case of words that follow prepositions or transitive verbs


3

a :  expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations <objective art> <an objective history of the war> <an objective judgment> 

b of a test :  limited to choices of fixed alternatives and reducing subjective factors to a minimum


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (12/22/13 08:46 PM)


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Offlineabsols
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
    #19314975 - 12/23/13 06:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sse said:
I dunno, I guess your perceptual make up is much different then mine and I haven't understood that side of objectivity.


not based on personal feeling or opinions/having actual existence in the real world/not influenced by the mind... seems like what I said earlier would still be subjective... which definition of objectivity are you using? can you show me?


by those above definitions, nothing you say regarding mental positivity/negativity/superiority are objective; all created by the mind.. not objectively real... subjectively real yes(based on personal feeling and opinions)

objectivity is the clean slate; synonyms impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral


"when we are conscious what is the use of being?" no idea what your perceptual make up is asking here..




I like the definitions you gave later to objective thing

but to reply here according to my means, being objective is the freedom individuality out of positive else existence right facts, subjects are the freedom sense, so nothing objectively, which could be positive still existence right, when it is a relative right living

but the major point that could make you understand how a subject can be objective, and I mean any subject can be totally objective, because objectivity is the exclusive existence, so it is already clear out of any conscious being, that is how everyone know everything, and anyone who deny anything is revealed and proved being lying

so the point, is else superiority.. when you realize the way of being yourself through else superior rights realizations, else being the truth so no one particularly but through anyone being and anything else reality being right perspectives, that way is objective ways, because the superior reference is else, while positive reference is self freedom result

what is objective is existence reality value, realizing objective value is being through existence right fact in truth

that is how others like you, cant mean objective value, the value reference is always yourself because you mean to be you first before opening up to everything else ... which is wrong as impossible way
the more you are the more you cant relate to else concept the more you cant be true nor real

few but not only me, recognize themselves as a matter of being fact not for its value .. so by being honest with ownself .. when it is about you or ownself this is the value, the fact of being that cant be but you being there, the conscious of sitting and being, that what matter, the positive of its state being constant and right for you

the value is the only way to get in touch with else, you are not the other nor the thing you see, but you can relate with objects or others by seeing them through the concept of superiority in truth, that justify their existence being objective seen present still right realities

the concept of superiority in truth, is the fact of being in constant plus terms, always adding something right potentially, which is the reason of positive constant right objective reality still as it is the truth anyways out of nothing, the right free ways

what is new or plus from you given to out so else not you, is not about you, it is truth average ways, but unfortunately conscious stop the process of truth for itself identification as positive will, so refuse to give out anything positive to keep it all to itself

conscious hate to see others being positive.. which in a way prove how all existence is to fallacy so it cant continue.. at a point something is gonna force it to stop being .. this is of course is a subjective opinion ..

when we are conscious what is the use of being ; I was pointing how the conscious is beyond being, so being cant matter
but the fact that conscious is to being true so being reality is an objective thing of existence
so I wasn't asking anything, I just meant to show how there cant be an answer or a reason.. like you know how you exist without having to be a body, so why the body ? because existing is true, so being is truth fact, not about oneself

which is how according to me, conscious beings are superior to gods, because they are individuals through truth fact, so their individuality out of everything cant be a lie within being right

nothing is closer to everything then any other relative thing, because nothing can be true like everything is certainly true
so nothing and everything can be right individuals free existence of positive truth, constant plus superiority

what is through truth, cannot be opposed to while it is not necessarily right, this is how the subjective value matter more for objective existence to be real


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: absols]
    #19315793 - 12/23/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so what your saying as objective is basically what is viewed (somewhat)subjectively but by all observers, so objective truth/experience regardless(though possibility of differentiation, still superior constant positivity in objectivity.)

everyone's experience would yield positivity in objectivity, after experiencing a life of subjectivity? So objectivity would be objectively superior in that sense.

So in essence objectivity in this sense is a universal (somewhat)subjective(though objective ;P) truth. Reality may be uncreated but there is an objective reality within our human creations. A bit confusing for me, haven't fully grasped it yet.


I guess people could have huge variations in their feelings of negativity, but negativity is objectively real, not distorted by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretation, there is a negativity. Not distorted by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretation, there is positivity. Not distorted by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretation, there is objective superiority?


what about a persons subjective experience of the objective negative/positive reality? Positive being positive and negative also effecting positively... where then is the negativity? Its there traditionally in the form of ? Is it even negative anymore?

sorry if im misinterpreting this... my chickens haven't hatched yet.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (12/23/13 12:05 PM)


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
    #19316965 - 12/23/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"This is the very nature of life. No one in this world experiences only pleasure and no pain, and no one experiences only gain and no loss. When we open to this truth, we discover that there is no need to hold on or to push away."-Sharon Salzberg


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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Offlineabsols
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
    #19317079 - 12/23/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

NO It is not what I said at all

the problem seem what your reference is god and his teachings through jesus you seem to know..

you want to impose negative as positive source, which is the print of god, when he is one only by being the free superior out of confusing all and everything positive rights for negative ends ..

what seem powerful now for you or technically possessed by livings, even eternal ones, is not positive fact ... what matter is the end while any more then ever look negative now infinitely

I never mention anything about subjective perspectives... this is your words out of mines.. you shouldn't do that... if you don't see positively what I say, then do your own sense, don't deform others words for your means

I said, for intelligent people they can see it logically, how superior way is the objective way ... it stays limited because infinite superiority cant be reached ... while truth is infinite positive right ways ...  but I said clearly how in concept it is in a way reachable like the same fact end ... by conceiving else superiority in whatever you see or not see, you are definitely being objective, because truth is positive constant facts, so what you are giving to superior existence from nothing but free will, is pointing the positive you are always

this is how at the end, truth is simple, it is about the positive you can be without nothing at all
the positive truth being all values reasons

again I repeat, a lot of people for instance are that positive clearly, but you might not see it objectively because of evil ways to abuse rights livings or beings

at the end.. only positive will exist .. it is simple fact that obviously will get there at the end, the only thing free truly that don't need anything else, truth superiority, like how what is true is really present and what is present is positive always and what is always is superior means infinitely ... etc... it all goes down to being true or to truth value 


Edited by absols (12/23/13 04:53 PM)


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OfflineSse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
Re: The highest high [Re: absols]
    #19317096 - 12/23/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ay dios mios

so much misconstruction... where to begin :p

also I never deformed your words or projected my thoughts onto you, those are my words... read again.

Where I drew subjectivity from was how the relatable definitions I posted read at the end (compare to subjective)

basically me trying to interpret those definitions.

just an fyi, I almost never understand what you are saying.. so, much of what you say goes by the waste side, unfortunately... because I think if I could understand what you were saying there may be some insight or at least grist for the mill for me


I don't deny that objectivity is superior in many senses, my denial was of the objectivity of these words... which I am just now finding that there are other seemingly more complicated definitions.... my comprehension isn't what it used to be so I am having trouble grasping those other definitions.

"Wisdom sees that light and dark are inseparable and that shadows are also light"


if in the end only positive exists then doesn't it cease to be positive? objectively it just is... no real label for it if there are no contrasts or subjective relation(I guess if there is an objective positive this isn't correct).... just a middle ground... existence as is... shaped by what was?

What about the people who live in ignorance and are blissful in their subjectivity? Wrapping their heads around or actualizing objectivity may seem to them inferior... they are quite content in their personal feelings and opinions?

Can you give me some clear cut examples of a positive being objective, a negative being objective? especially would like to hear about the objective negative: is it basically all traditional negatives? murder? pain? rape? molestation? car wrecks? etc.?  Something perceived by most as a negative experience? But surely not a negative end... except for murder and such, it could end negatively hehe

then objective superiority due to constant positive end

objective positives... all the imaginable traditional positives and such

that makes sense I suppose


is it basically the gist of what this is saying...

"This is the very nature of life. No one in this world experiences only pleasure and no pain, and no one experiences only gain and no loss. When we open to this truth, we discover that there is no need to hold on or to push away."-Sharon Salzberg

that no one in this world experiences only pleasure and no pain... no one experiences only positive and no negative? So there is an objective positive and an objective negative... though the interpretation of them vary greatly.... objectively no matter who you are, there will be both pain and pleasure experienced(possibly). Objective fact of human existence? Though I don't have that gods eye view so as far I know there could be a blissed out person since birth or a person only experiencing pain since birth...

regardless no need to hold on to or push away either negative or positive... not being carried away by both... or observing them unbiased is the objectivity that I know. Eventually id imagine adhering that practice would lead to unitary vision(seeing the one in the all, all in the one; then negativity dissolves into the sea of joy immediately, not restrictive, much is out of ignorance fueled by conditions/subjectivity, things you may think of as an evil being may just be a person whose conditions have formed in such a way and that can be empathized with; because from what I can tell if you underwent the same exact genetic/environment conditions you would be the exact same, no inherent evil that I can see... seems all conditional)... become like a mighty oak tree unswayable... peace and happiness in what is(based on the discernment)... no adherence to personal feelings or opinions, no concrete self labels... just "innumerous impersonal processes"


also I think depending on your interpretation you could even say subjectivity is superior... what else is going to wake you up.

though objectively i'm still seeing subjectivity = objectivity

and to remain objective completely seems like a hassle... id still like to have my subjective experiences... beauty, tastes, personality... just be happy in what is with the insight to know when detachment is beneficial/conducive, no reason to get rid of the beauty imo. Even the Buddha commented before his death how beautiful the world is... the point is to dwell/cultivate happily in whatever life hands you... not to become sensory void/rock

experiences no experiencer, actions no actor... eventually you reach the plateau of evenness, true equanimity, bound/confined by nothing, free expanse of mind, the uncreated is realized. Unitary equitable vision... only the wholesome cultivates


Edited by Sse (12/26/13 12:03 PM)


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InvisibleLifeBoy
Blazing Color


Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 184
Loc: Here
Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
    #19320872 - 12/24/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lots of awesome responses!


I think love is the highest high, and fear is the lowest low.

Love comes after you find peace within yourself.

Peace comes from being aware of and dealing with your feelings in an honest and genuine fashion.  That way you can let go of harmful emotional hangups that crowd your mind and cloud your vision.


--------------------
John 4:14 - but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” - Jesus Christ

"People think love is an emotion.  Love is good sense." - Ken Kesey

If you get confused, listen to the music play!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E5JkPMB2DY[/url]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QTPndsG_KA4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6bM4XfqRRQ


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