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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: What is it?
Mt. Everest?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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all this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Re: The highest high [Re: Chronic7]
#19301868 - 12/20/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: The very highest must be without opposite
LOL. 
And without you knowing your "lowest low," my friend, just HOW do you think you would recognize your "highest high"?
It's precisely our lows that define and give shape to our highs.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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I don't disagree 
"The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain" - Kahlil Gibran
Still, if you want the infinite, you must stay beyond opposites, and want
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Edited by Chronic7 (12/20/13 08:47 AM)
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HeartAndMind


Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Re: The highest high [Re: Chronic7]
#19302181 - 12/20/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
HeartAndMind said:
Quote:
all this beauty said: The highest high is when you're at peace with your lowest low.
This, I would add also that it is when you're at peace with highest high.
Unswayed by pain or pleasure
The very highest must be without opposite

How can one recognize it/abide in it, I wonder? By seeing that it's already here, just clouded by thoughts?
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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let go of personal dichotomy and just abide, reality is there uncreated. Unitary vision
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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HeartAndMind


Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
#19302262 - 12/20/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It seems all easy, but I find it hard to bring into practice.
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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"our habit energies are often stronger than our volition. We say and do things we don't want to and afterwards we regret it. We make ourselves and others suffer, and we bring about a lot of damage. We may vow not to do it again, but we do it again. Why? Because our habit energies (vashana) push us."
"we need the energy of mindfulness to recognize and be present with our habit energy in order to stop this course of destruction. With mindfulness, we have the capacity to recognize the habit energy every time it manifests. "Hello, my habit energy, I know you are there!" If we just smile to it, it will lose much of its strength. Mindfulness is the energy that allows us to recognize our habit energy and prevent it from dominating us."
The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching by Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (12/20/13 10:59 AM)
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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"we have to learn the art of stopping - stopping our thinking, our habit energies, our forgetfulness, the strong emotions that rule us. When an emotion rushes through us like a storm, we have no peace. We turn on the TV and then we turn it off. We pick up a book and then we put it down. How can we stop this state of agitation? How can we stop our fear, despair, anger, and craving? We can stop by practicing mindful breathing, mindful walking, mindful smiling, and deep looking in order to understand. When we are mindful, touching deeply the present moment, the fruits are always understanding, acceptance, love and the desire to relieve suffering and bring joy."
"Forgetfulness is the opposite. We drink a cup of tea, but we do not know we are drinking a cup of tea. We sit with the person we love, but we don't know that she is there. We walk but we are not really walking. We are someplace else, thinking about the past or the future. The horse of our habit energy is carrying us along, and we are its captive. We need to stop our horse and reclaim our liberty. We need to shine the light of mindfulness on everything we do, so the darkness of forgetfulness will disappear. The first function of meditation - shamatha - is to stop."
The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching by Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
#19302377 - 12/20/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"the second function of shamatha is calming. When we have a strong emotion, we know it can be dangerous to act, but we don't have the strength or clarity to refain. We have to learn the art of breathing in and out, stopping our activities, and calming our emotions. We have to learn to become solid and stable like an oak tree, and not be blown from side to side by the storm. The Buddha taught many techniques to help us calm our body and mind and look deeply at them. They can be summarized in five stages:
(1) Recognition - If we are angry, we say, "I know that anger is in me." (2) Acceptance - When we are angry, we do not deny it. We accept what is present. (3) Embracing - We hold our anger in our two arms like a mother holding her crying baby. Our mindfulness embraces our emotion, and this alone can calm our anger and ourselves. (4) Looking deeply - When we are calm enough, we can look deeply to understand what has brought this anger to be, what is causing our baby's discomfort. (5) Insight - The fruit of looking deeply is understanding the many causes and conditions, primary and secondary, that have brought about our anger, that are causing our baby to cry. Perhaps our baby is hungry. Perhaps his diaper pin is piercing his skin. Our anger was triggered when our friend spoke to us meanly, and suddenly we remember that he was not at his best today because his father is dying. We reflect like this until we have some insights into what has caused our suffering. With insight, we know what to do and what not to do to change the situation."
The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching by Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (12/20/13 11:14 AM)
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
#19302429 - 12/20/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"After calming, the third function of shamatha is resting. Suppose someone standing alongside a river throws a pebble in the air and it falls down into the river. The pebble allows itself to sink slowly and reach the riverbed without any effort. Once the pebble is at the bottom, it continues to rest, allowing the water to pass by. When we practice sitting meditation, we can allow ourselves to rest just like that pebble. We can allow ourselves to sink naturally into the position of sitting - resting, without effort. We have to learn the art of resting, allowing our body and mind to rest. If we have wounds in our body or our mind, we have to rest so they can heal themselves."
"Calming allows us to rest, and resting is a precondition for healing. When animals in the forest get wounded, they find a place to lie down, and they rest completely for many days. They just rest and they get the healing they need."
"we have to learn to rest. Lying down is not the only position for resting. During sitting or walking meditation, we can rest very well. Meditation does not have to be hard labor. Just allow your body and mind to rest like an animal in the forest. Don't struggle. There is no need to attain anything. I am writing this book, but I am not struggling. I am resting also. Please read in a joyful, yet restful way. The Buddha said, "My Dharma is the practice of non-practice." Practice in a way that does not tire you out, but gives your body, emotions, and consciousness a chance to rest. Our body and mind have the capacity to heal themselves if we allow them to rest."
"Stopping, calming, and resting are preconditions for healing. If we cannot stop, the course of our destruction will just continue. The world needs healing. Individuals, communities, and nations need healing."
The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching by Thich Nhat Hanh
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (12/20/13 11:27 AM)
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absols
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Quote:
all this beauty said: It's precisely our lows that define and give shape to our highs.
too funny now I understand why all is flying under the sea
highs and lows has nothing to do with individuals .. you are a constant being you cant be through relative references superiority as well as inferiority is to objective freedom which is necessarily never one present thing while always relative to something
individual beings are totally through free wills of freedom value, the positive present you are which cant be according to something else, while all to what you enjoy doing in constant terms of being
the fact that you seem to be through some feelings of senses, is the free you are positive about .. that is why to you being angry is good to appreciate more the value of feeling being in peace.. it is your way of being through feelings, things that you never do nor realize
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Quote:
HeartAndMind said:
Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
HeartAndMind said:
Quote:
all this beauty said: The highest high is when you're at peace with your lowest low.
This, I would add also that it is when you're at peace with highest high.
Unswayed by pain or pleasure
The very highest must be without opposite

How can one recognize it/abide in it, I wonder? By seeing that it's already here, just clouded by thoughts?
Yes, by seeing that YOU are already here
Just stay aware of yourself, as you already are, it's simple, natural, effortless, just being aware of yourself Most would soon think 'there's nothing there, that's boring', but you've come this far, you know it's worth it
'Remain aware of your Self and all else will be known' - Ramana
As your attention drifts with thoughts gently bring it back to effortless Self-awareness
the Self is ultimately unknown, unborn, uncreated, so don't seek to see it as a 'thing', don't seek to know it through thought, know it only through being it, by being Self-aware
Draw no conclusions
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The highest high [Re: absols]
#19302590 - 12/20/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I guess technically a person would remain objective; not influenced by personal opinions or feelings while still objectively observing others personal feelings and opinions. Then objectively it could be said for their situation, objectivity would be superior.
"Even though pious attendants and hermit buddhas claim that they understand [this single nature of mind] as the partial absence of self, They do not understand it exactly as it is. Furthermore, being fettered by opinions held in accordance with their respective literatures and philosophical systems, There are those who do not perceive the inner radiance[directly]: The pious attendants and hermit buddhas are obscured [in this respect] by their attachment to the subject-object dichotomy. The adherents of Madhyamaka are obscured by their attachment to the extremes of the two truths. The practitioners of Kriyantantra and Yogatantra are obscured by their attachment to the extremes of ritual service and attainment. The practitioners of Mahayoga and Anuyoga are obscured by their attachment to [the extremes of] space and awareness. All these [practitioners] stray from the point because they polarize the non-dual reality, And since they fail to unify [these extremes] in non-duality, they do not attain buddhahood. Thus, all of those beings continue to roam in cyclic existence, Because they persistently engage in [forms of] renunciation, and in acts of rejection and acceptance with regard to their own minds. Where [in reality] cyclic existence and nirvana are inseparable.
Therefore, one should abandon all constructed teachings,
The Tibetan Book Of The Dead
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
#19302608 - 12/20/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: The highest high [Re: Chronic7]
#19302662 - 12/20/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Agree completely with what you said therr

-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: The highest high [Re: Chronic7]
#19302672 - 12/20/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Isn't the highest high just happiness? Love can be happy but it isn't always. But the term happiness doesn't mean anything else but good. Everyone's just looking for a good time or happiness. Through drugs or something.
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Is love only unhappy/unsatisfied when it is codependent?
1. Love - Development of self first priority. Toxic love - Obsession with relationship. 2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow. Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness)
3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships. Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.
4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth. Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.
5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.) Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."
6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together. Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.
7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality. Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.
8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality. Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.
9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood. Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.
10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.) Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)
11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship. Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.
12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone. Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.
13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment. Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.
http://www.silcom.com/~joy2meu/codependent2.htm
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (12/20/13 12:27 PM)
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absols
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/13
Posts: 986
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: The highest high [Re: Sse]
#19303371 - 12/20/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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you don't seem to grasp the concept of objective right
another or others cant be objectively perceived, because you are someone too, then you belong to the same fact of being, same object
to be objective you must mean something else totally, like everything or something, as you are not a thing when you are a constant present conscious being, you can change you can realize something else and you can be free ... that is how truth is always objective else perspective, truth of anything or everything which is infinite possible existence
the true duality is the relation between facts and present value concepts, that are supposed to be for the same existence
the fact usually is never of value but it is the most obvious reality of something existence
the present value is always through superior freedom individualities, so conscious positive existence rights
facts must be existence rights forms and present must be objective positive realities sources
so what facts must be free and present should be real
as same existence reference
which cant be possible but truth existence, infinite fact free realities ends
when we are conscious what is the use of being ?? I am sure you cant answer that
that is why a lot of believers particularly, run to say that existence has no value, physically there cant be but negative ends, and everyone seek to be in powers over livings as being things
the only value of being, is the fact of truth being positive existence, so only what is in fact right or positively existing is a being, because it is always positive conception of being before being real
that is why creating beings is wrong, or meaning to do things is wrong
only true things must be objective, only what exist truly so positively must be real
truth is positive existence in the sense of being present
which prove totally how positive is to superiority and negative is wrong so a lie objectively when it is there
existence value is only in being constant ... which is impossible unless it is true
when existence is not constant so become negative to what it was, then reality would stop being possible and negative freedoms would be everywhere running to get positive anyways, so evil powers would be the rule
truth is beyond superiority fact, but truth is positive existence which is all the true superiority reference
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MotherNaturesSon
Neuromancer ☿



Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 1,037
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: The highest high [Re: absols]
#19306241 - 12/21/13 03:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The highest high is an ever-ascending one
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Excerpts of inner dialogue III-V-VIII: "Im no saint, but I do have genuine intentions." "So you believe in intensions?" "No. I believe in being genuine." "The goal is to become more child-like, and less child-ish."
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HeartAndMind


Registered: 01/09/10
Posts: 1,410
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Re: The highest high [Re: Chronic7]
#19306529 - 12/21/13 06:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sse said: "our habit energies are often stronger than our volition. We say and do things we don't want to and afterwards we regret it. We make ourselves and others suffer, and we bring about a lot of damage. We may vow not to do it again, but we do it again. Why? Because our habit energies (vashana) push us."
"we need the energy of mindfulness to recognize and be present with our habit energy in order to stop this course of destruction. With mindfulness, we have the capacity to recognize the habit energy every time it manifests. "Hello, my habit energy, I know you are there!" If we just smile to it, it will lose much of its strength. Mindfulness is the energy that allows us to recognize our habit energy and prevent it from dominating us."
The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching by Thich Nhat Hanh
I'm actually kicking my two habits right now, fapping and video games, on third week without both.
Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
HeartAndMind said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Unswayed by pain or pleasure
The very highest must be without opposite

How can one recognize it/abide in it, I wonder? By seeing that it's already here, just clouded by thoughts?
Yes, by seeing that YOU are already here
Just stay aware of yourself, as you already are, it's simple, natural, effortless, just being aware of yourself Most would soon think 'there's nothing there, that's boring', but you've come this far, you know it's worth it
'Remain aware of your Self and all else will be known' - Ramana
As your attention drifts with thoughts gently bring it back to effortless Self-awareness
the Self is ultimately unknown, unborn, uncreated, so don't seek to see it as a 'thing', don't seek to know it through thought, know it only through being it, by being Self-aware
Draw no conclusions
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