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OfflineTombc1
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Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
Last seen: 1 year, 1 day
Ayahuasca Death?
    #19293872 - 12/18/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://sebastopol.towns.pressdemocrat.com/2012/09/news/sebastopol-teen-died-in-peru-trying-to-further-open-his-mind/

What is this? It seems like the most disgustingly biased article i've ever seen but I was just wondering if anyone can shed some light on it


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: Tombc1]
    #19293906 - 12/18/13 03:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

doesn't seem that biased to me honestly. The kid probably ignored the fasting instructions and took some medications or something that interacted badly with the MAOI's in the brew.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineIcyus
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Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19293915 - 12/18/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

One needs to die before being reborn..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: Icyus]
    #19293977 - 12/18/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's biased and completely dishonest because they make it out like it was the dmt that killed him. It wasn't the dmt, it was the fucking maoi. Natural or not, maoi, as can be seem in this case, are clearly dangerous


--------------------
On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze

Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky
We all need more love, and mainly less hate
Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye
That makes the heart's eye cry
Locked deep away in the skies of our minds

It's all in the mind


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #19294023 - 12/18/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

maoi's themselves do not kill or harm anyone. They allow dangerous interactions to take place with other drugs, they take down a defensive enzyme system in your gut. And i think you are letting emotions cloud your judgement. Usually i'd agree that drug related articles are horribly biased. But I don't see that in this one, the only mention of DMT was stating the main active ingredient in Ayahuasca. The focus was more on the actions of the retreat employee's.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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InvisibleJohnnyTripsAlot
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Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 870
Loc: Canada
Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #19294043 - 12/18/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I also don't think its really all that biased, you cant expect a news writer to defend drugs especially in an article about a young persons death

This article makes me sad, let us all never forget how important it is to be responsible with these substances


--------------------




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OfflineHarryL
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Registered: 11/16/10
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #19294046 - 12/18/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Someone who dies while on a drug does not equate to died because of the drug... Poor logical argument but one used by the anti-drug establishment for years

Depends who is reporting it... Their bias or need to use it to further their agenda

On Aya, allergic to bees, stung and dies... Must be the drug
On mushrooms and has their third heart attack and dies.. Must be the drug

Not saying that was the case... But who would know...
History is written by the one with the most to gain....

Peace


--------------------
Mushroom hunting:  One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Registered: 11/04/10
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: HarryL]
    #19294067 - 12/18/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the article didn't blame the drug for his death. It simply stated what drug he was on when he died and the events leading to his death.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19294070 - 12/18/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

in fact the article even cites the father saying that the drug seems to be safe and that he didn't think his son was irresponsible about it.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineAcidreamer
altered ego
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Registered: 08/05/12
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19294146 - 12/18/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Perhaps the shaman put toé (Datura) in it? That can be dangerous. Either way it's a REALLY sad and unfortunate story, both for the family involved and for the reputation of ayahuasca itself.


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Offlinerikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: Tombc1]
    #19294250 - 12/18/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

...


Edited by rikuni (03/16/14 05:24 AM)


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Invisibleopenmind
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Registered: 08/03/07
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: rikuni]
    #19294356 - 12/18/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Acidreamer said:
Perhaps the shaman put toé (Datura) in it? That can be dangerous. Either way it's a REALLY sad and unfortunate story, both for the family involved and for the reputation of ayahuasca itself.



Quote:

rikuni said:
This is old but it did come out after a while that this Manculuto was not that great of a shaman. He did lie about many things and he had nothing to do with the ancient traditions he was talking about.
But the most severe mistake he made and probably the reason for the death of that kid was that he ADDED Toe as well as other plants to the brew to make it stronger!






I was going to say....I think I've heard a couple accounts of this happening over the past few years, toe being added to the brew and resulting in the death of a "westerner". Then it appearing as if, or once the stories reach the media, that it was the aya vine/dmt itself that's deadly.





-OM

.


--------------------


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InvisibleMagicalOrangutan
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Registered: 06/29/12
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: openmind]
    #19294443 - 12/18/13 06:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Obviously yes it is biased because obviously when some ignorant parent reads this, what are they gonna say about dmt? Are they gonna think it's a good thing, or a dangerous thing that will kill their kids if they get ahold of it? I mean seriously, if most parents read this and then their kid said "I wanna try dmt" what is that parent gonna say? Clearly they will mistake concomitance with causation and say "this kid died and was on this dmt drug, my kid is in danger if they take any form of dmt". Obviously that's how most people think


--------------------
On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze

Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky
We all need more love, and mainly less hate
Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye
That makes the heart's eye cry
Locked deep away in the skies of our minds

It's all in the mind


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
    #19294454 - 12/18/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thats the fault of the parents for lazy and illogical thinking. The article was simply stating facts. Besides if a parent is still making decisions for a kid (under 18) they probably shouldn't be doing such a powerful psychedelic in the first place.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineNoven
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Registered: 11/20/13
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19294695 - 12/18/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We were discussing this case at a ceremony I was attending this year. Someone at the ceremony actually had connection to the events from what I remember the kid had drug problems prior to his death and was bringing in his own substances, on one occasion he went of by himself and they had to go out and look for him, he had a lot of issues. Either way the shaman was responsible for trying to cover up the death.

I don't know how reliable the sources were but apparently they knew the actual shaman, so I'm just relating what I have heard so take it as hearsay.


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OfflineTombc1
Shroomerite
Male


Registered: 09/06/12
Posts: 299
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: Noven]
    #19297550 - 12/19/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Mhm, despite the fact that the article doesn't directly attribute his death to the drug itself, it certainly implies it.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: openmind]
    #19298099 - 12/19/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

Acidreamer said:
Perhaps the shaman put toé (Datura) in it? That can be dangerous. Either way it's a REALLY sad and unfortunate story, both for the family involved and for the reputation of ayahuasca itself.



Quote:

rikuni said:
This is old but it did come out after a while that this Manculuto was not that great of a shaman. He did lie about many things and he had nothing to do with the ancient traditions he was talking about.
But the most severe mistake he made and probably the reason for the death of that kid was that he ADDED Toe as well as other plants to the brew to make it stronger!






I was going to say....I think I've heard a couple accounts of this happening over the past few years, toe being added to the brew and resulting in the death of a "westerner". Then it appearing as if, or once the stories reach the media, that it was the aya vine/dmt itself that's deadly.





-OM

.




What exactly is Toe?


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19298293 - 12/19/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
What exactly is Toe?




Brugmansia suaveolens more commonly known as datura.


--------------------


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Offlines240779
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Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: muistrue]
    #19299012 - 12/19/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, brugmansia is a different plant from datura. Both names are official titles. Brugmansia just contains the same group of tropane alkaloids that datura contains -- and there are even more plants that contain these alkaloids.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.
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Registered: 06/22/12
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Re: Ayahuasca Death? [Re: s240779]
    #19299054 - 12/19/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We're basically still talking about an interaction between the maoi and the scopalamine and other tropanes that killed the kid right?


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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