|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Slaughterhouses
#19295939 - 12/19/13 12:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
So I was watching a documentary today on the lifestyle of certain Native American tribes, and one section of the doc discussed hunting and preparing meat for the rest of the tribe. Obviously there was no legitimate footage but they interviewed some real old relatives who talked about how they would chase after buffalo on horse and they would drag it back and thank the earth for providing such food. Now I'm not a religious person, but I had a lot of respect for the appreciation and thankfulness they expressed towards the earth and the animal. The animal was also slaughtered and prepared in a wooden teepee style house.
After finishing the doc, I started thinking about our modern day meat industry and how cold and disconnected it seemed when compared to the process of hunting performed by native Americans. I mean, the whole thing seems so much colder, dirtier, more unnatural. Just watching clips of some modern day slaughterhouses makes me quite uncomfortable. I understand that they're necessary, meat is sold on a huge scale and we dont all have time to go out and hunt our buffalo. I do hope though that in the future, we improve our slaughter houses, right now they just look disgustingly industrial. I've got a bias against stuff like that though.
Thoughts?
|
CounterCulturest
-Positive Mental Attitude-

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 3,662
Loc: Nesting on modems
|
|
Do you eat meat ? They aren't don't have to be necessary.
Edited by CounterCulturest (12/19/13 12:20 AM)
|
LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
|
|
It's best not to think about it IMO. I have enough things to be disgusted and feel guilty about.
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
|
I did not eat any meat other than fish for about 2 years, but recently started reintroducing myself. I started with Bison and Beef, but of which I have been heavily enjoying. I want to try some of the gamey meats such as elk and kangaroo. Are you saying slaughterhouses aren't necessary? I don't see how they couldnt be, there are a ton of people who eat meat and the animals gotta be prepared somehow. I just about the cleanliness and design are improved as we move forward
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
|
Quote:
LordSenate said: It's best not to think about it IMO. I have enough things to be disgusted and feel guilty about.
I feel you, but I'll be honest, tripping makes me feel obligated to think about it and understand it. I'm putting this stuff into my own body, I should understand the origin should I do not?
|
Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach
|
|
Yeah it's fucked up. Then again, life is painful and fucked up. It's the nature of the beast, so to speak.
Quote:
OliverJames said: I do hope though that in the future, we improve our slaughter houses, right now they just look disgustingly industrial.
How would you improve on an industrial, mechanized way of killing animals?
Quote:
Now I'm not a religious person, but I had a lot of respect for the appreciation and thankfulness they expressed towards the earth and the animal. The animal was also slaughtered and prepared in a wooden teepee style house.
There are rituals present in slaughterhouses sometimes. It's called "kosher".
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
|
LordSenate
One of the Lost


Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
|
|
Yeah. I hate to admit it but I have enough stuff on my plate. I honestly can't handle trying to understand and process anymore information that I already know.
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Set]
#19296077 - 12/19/13 12:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Yea I really don't know exactly how I'd improve it. Were definitely not goin back to Native American style prep, its too inefficient.
Gonna sound idealistic, probably wont come to this for many years, but I imagine a ultra clean assembly line style operation, utilizing some sort of flash to render the animal unconscious as well as lasers to cut and trim away at the body. Vacuum sealed chambers, completely sterile, all white, operated by mech arms. Quiet, quick, efficient. Just brainstorming 
I don't bother lecturing people about it, its not my place, but part of me just finds it sorta fucked up that people will gladly indulge in a slab of bacon but cannot for the life of them watch the pig being raised, slaughtered, packaged, and sent out. Just huge amounts of disconnect
For the same reason that a lot of people find surgery disgusting. I used to, but I've been trying to expose myself to it as of recently, I think its important to understand the physical internal aspect of ourselves.
I'm not saying everybody else has too haha, these are just personal dilemmas I've been thinkin about for a while, mostly induced by tripping, strange what the ole mushrooms will do to ya
|
Legend
RIP Sasha



Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 28,336
Loc: TX
|
|
I do believe we do not respect the earth enough for what it gives us. Thats one thing i really admire about the native americans. You'll find a lot of hunters, and farmers who feel the same.
--------------------
No sympathy for the devil, keep that in mind. [url=]Buy the ticket, take the ride. [/url]Are you lost?
|
Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach
|
|
Quote:
OliverJames said: people will gladly indulge in a slab of bacon
I hear you. The world is fucked, might as well accept it though.
Amazon Shop for: Delicious Bacon
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Set]
#19296116 - 12/19/13 01:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I suppose you are right
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
|
|
I agree with most of the sentiments in this thread. I plan to live in unison with the land as best I can one day, but unfortunately it is currently beyond my meager means.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
|
I think we should suspend all animal slaughter until we've invented a means to communicate with the animals we want to eat. Then, if they give consent to being killed and eaten, it's okay.
-------------------- I have pneumonia
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
|
|
I doubt they would consent. 
What's your sig and ava from?
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
|
They're swedish yule goat costumes! The yule goat comes on yule eve to deliver presents or kidnap kids, depending on the story. Like a creepier and less jolly santy claus. I'm making a goat mask right now!
-------------------- I have pneumonia
|
TheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.



Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
|
|
Somebody tried to show me one of those slaughterhouse "scare tactics" films, It made me hungry. I'm Texan.
-------------------- A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs
|
jsad316
Boost whore



Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 114
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
|
|
The episode of South Park where the calf is born onto the conveyor and immediately gets chopped up did it for me.
--------------------
Don't stop 'till the music does.
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
|
|
Quote:
TheGreenArrow said: Somebody tried to show me one of those slaughterhouse "scare tactics" films, It made me hungry. I'm Texan. 
I'm also a Texan, and worked on a cattle ranch for a little while. It's still deeply disturbing to me no matter how I look at it. That doesn't mean I'll refuse to eat the burger placed in front of me...that I maybe ordered on my own accord because it sounded damn tasty.
This society is filled with lots of ethical dilemmas like this which is why I hope to eventually live purely by my own means one day.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
|
|
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
|
rulesq
Bad Mogambo



Registered: 05/10/13
Posts: 5,317
Loc: Суомалиа
|
|
Shop for: Delicious Bacon, Ranch Dressing, Scales
--------------------
|
broken
455 member(s)



Registered: 09/07/10
Posts: 14,063
Loc: fuckyeah!
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: rulesq]
#19296950 - 12/19/13 07:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
at least the animals die quickly, i hope to be so lucky. chickens raised for laying eggs live in much worse conditions then those who are raised for butchering, and then die slowly. dairy farm are not too pleasant either.
if given the choice between slowly dying of a disease or old age or whatever, and being slaughtered and eaten, i'll take the quick death.
--------------------
|
Ellis Dee
Archangel


Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Set] 1
#19297069 - 12/19/13 08:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Set said: There are rituals present in slaughterhouses sometimes. It's called "kosher".
I understand that's the most inhumane way of slaughtering animals too. Instead of a quick shot with a pneumadic bolt gun they get their throat slit open and hoisted up in the air by their hind legs to drain the blood. While there are better ways and more humane ways to slaughter animals it should be made a crime to slaughter animals in the kosher way. There's no reason to tolerate these savages torturing animals to death in a sadistic tribal ritul when they can get a quick shot and have no misery.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
|
k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
Last seen: 6 months, 4 days
|
|
Quote:
OliverJames said: I do hope though that in the future, we improve our slaughter houses, right now they just look disgustingly industrial. I've got a bias against stuff like that though.
Thoughts?
i think you are misguided
when you kill a buffalo with a bow and arrow, or even a gun
you dont kill it instantly
you aim for a major organ and then the buffalo bleeds out over a long period of time. miles upon miles of chasing a bleeding out buffalo
in a slaughterhouse they put a metal rod through its forehead and the animal is instantly dead.
-------------------- AMU - AMU Q & A - MyVideo Teks!
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
Quote:
OliverJames said: Are you saying slaughterhouses aren't necessary? I don't see how they couldnt be, there are a ton of people who eat meat and the animals gotta be prepared somehow.
That's the thing, though, you don't have to eat meat. In fact, it would vastly improve quality of life on the planet if nobody did.
It's not just about how the animals die, either. At least when hunted they have a chance to escape, and can live their lives in freedom. An animal in a factory farm is born to be eaten and is raised in suffering, under whatever conditions are cheapest for the company.
|
GabbaDj
BTH



Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
|
|
Uncomfortable?
The modern day slaughter house utilizes much more of the animal for the benefit of man and animal than the Indians ever could have dreamed of.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: GabbaDj] 2
#19297232 - 12/19/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Make no mistake, nothing in a slaughterhouse is designed for the "benefit of the animal."
Again, it's just whatever is most cost efficient. A lot of times, for example, chickens are tossed alive into scalding water to defeather them, and pigs are often skinned alive because their throats were incompletely cut and they don't want to stop the processing line to finish them off.
|
GabbaDj
BTH



Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
|
|
Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Set said: There are rituals present in slaughterhouses sometimes. It's called "kosher".
I understand that's the most inhumane way of slaughtering animals too. Instead of a quick shot with a pneumadic bolt gun they get their throat slit open and hoisted up in the air by their hind legs to drain the blood. While there are better ways and more humane ways to slaughter animals it should be made a crime to slaughter animals in the kosher way. There's no reason to tolerate these savages torturing animals to death in a sadistic tribal ritul when they can get a quick shot and have no misery.
The kosher way allows suffering to the animal. Current modern methods require a much quicker death before processing. Neither are perfect.
It's time to realize that we have too many people on the planet to organize feeding all of us using "the old ways".
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
|
GabbaDj
BTH



Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
#19297246 - 12/19/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said: Make no mistake, nothing in a slaughterhouse is designed for the "benefit of the animal."
Again, it's just whatever is most cost efficient. A lot of times, for example, chickens are tossed alive into scalding water to defeather them, and pigs are often skinned alive because their throats were incompletely cut and they don't want to stop the processing line to finish them off.
I will dare you to keep a pet chicken for one year. Not just kept for food or eggs, you keep a chicken as a pet for one year.
Then you come back and say that it was worth it.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: GabbaDj]
#19297254 - 12/19/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Meat itself is actually a pretty inefficient way to feed our exploding population. It takes a lot more plants to sustain most of the animals that we raise for food than it does to sustain ourselves.
Quote:
At present, the US livestock population consumes more than 7 times as much grain as is consumed directly by the entire American population (11). The amount of grains fed to US livestock is sufficient to feed about 840 million people who follow a plant-based diet (7).
From the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
|
GabbaDj
BTH



Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver] 3
#19297410 - 12/19/13 10:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
But meat is 1000x more tasty.
-------------------- GabbaDj FAMM.ORG
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: GabbaDj] 2
#19297698 - 12/19/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
GabbaDj said: The modern day slaughter house utilizes much more of the animal for the benefit of man and animal than the Indians ever could have dreamed of.

Good one.
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
#19297905 - 12/19/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
OliverJames said: Are you saying slaughterhouses aren't necessary? I don't see how they couldnt be, there are a ton of people who eat meat and the animals gotta be prepared somehow.
That's the thing, though, you don't have to eat meat. In fact, it would vastly improve quality of life on the planet if nobody did.
It's not just about how the animals die, either. At least when hunted they have a chance to escape, and can live their lives in freedom. An animal in a factory farm is born to be eaten and is raised in suffering, under whatever conditions are cheapest for the company.
Hahahaa let me guess, you are a strict vegan on your way to enlightenment? Get your pop culture, elitest shit out of here. Human's were meant to eat meat whether you like it or not
--------------------
|
KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
|
Meant to? Get your intelligent design shit out of here.
-------------------- I have pneumonia
|
unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
|
|
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Meant to? Get your intelligent design shit out of here.
Look at your teeth and the way our digestive system works. You'd be unintelligent to come to a different conclusion elsewise.
--------------------
|
KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
|
Humans don't have predator teeth. Humans have very long digestive tracts. Humans evolved from vegetarian animals (that probably ate insects etc as well), fleshy meat is a relatively recent thing, and it's entirely possible to do without it.
If you want to eat meat that's your problem. Don't say it's necessary. And I have no idea what "pop culture" and "elitist" are supposed to mean.
-------------------- I have pneumonia
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...



Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 3 months, 26 days
|
|
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Humans don't have predator teeth. Humans have very long digestive tracts. Humans evolved from vegetarian animals (that probably ate insects etc as well), fleshy meat is a relatively recent thing, and it's entirely possible to do without it.
If you want to eat meat that's your problem. Don't say it's necessary. And I have no idea what "pop culture" and "elitist" are supposed to mean.
Humans are really just omnivores.
You don't have to eat meat, but you will need supplementation to otherwise avoid it. I don't think I could ever give up milk, cheese, and eggs.
And are you in Sweden?
-------------------- Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu.. *Cough* *Cough* Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu... At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Humans don't have predator teeth. Humans have very long digestive tracts. Humans evolved from vegetarian animals (that probably ate insects etc as well), fleshy meat is a relatively recent thing, and it's entirely possible to do without it.
If you want to eat meat that's your problem. Don't say it's necessary. And I have no idea what "pop culture" and "elitist" are supposed to mean.
This is false. We have predator canines and incisors, These are for rending flesh, nut nuts and berries. If they ate insects then they weren't vegetarians. We are omnivores and have omnivore dentition. Chimpanzees eat monkeys.
--------------------
|
KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
|
Yeah, good luck biting a lamb to death with those incisors and then tearing its flesh off with your strong neck muscles. Though if you're talking carrion, and ripened flesh, then yeah, I can believe human ancestors ate that before they had fire and tools.
-------------------- I have pneumonia
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Yeah, good luck biting a lamb to death with those incisors and then tearing its flesh off with your strong neck muscles. Though if you're talking carrion, and ripened flesh, then yeah, I can believe human ancestors ate that before they had fire and tools.
They aren't for killing and neither are our fingernails claws. Some of our teeth are designed for tearing flesh. This is indisputable.
--------------------
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
|
I think he deserves a
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
Quote:
unknown1123 said:
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Meant to? Get your intelligent design shit out of here.
Look at your teeth and the way our digestive system works. You'd be unintelligent to come to a different conclusion elsewise.
Not really. Evolution has no purpose or design to it. Some of our teeth are optimized for tearing flesh, but that doesn't mean we were 'meant to' eat meat, it just means that early humans who had the OPTION of eating meat were favored by natural selection.
In any case, our evolutionary history has no bearing on whether or not we should eat meat today. We live in a far different world than our ancestors did. We have farming and agriculture now. We're no longer nomadic tribes traveling around and living off the local ecosystem, and our brains have evolved enough since then for us to make reasoned, ethical decisions about our diet.
Also, you'll really have to explain what you mean by "pop culture elitist shit," as I am not a vegan and did not claim I'm on my way to enlightenment. I cited peer-reviewed sources backing up my claims that eating meat is far less environmentally efficient and sustainable than eating plants. Do you consider anything that you disagree with to be "pop culture elitist shit," regardless of the evidence corroborating it?
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: k00laid]
#19298189 - 12/19/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Sorry, probably should have been a bit clearer in my original post. This post was somewhat related to the way the animals are treated and the pain they endure but was supposed to be more focused on the disconnect between people who eat meat and the origin of the meat itself. When people see videos of slaughterhouses, many are disgusted, why? Because people don't seem to really realize that the origin of their bacon was from a living breathing animal.
Seriously, don't get me wrong, I'm not some kind of vegan elitist. I personally think the consumption of meat is necessary. Yes if your downing tons of red meat every week and not working out it will be detrimental to your health. But if you work out and treat your body right, the protein and fats derived from meat can be extremely beneficial.
I just find it interesting that people can't watch videos of animals being killed in a slaughter house. I don't know about you, but I find it easier to watch a buffalo being shot and killed with a gun shot or stabbed by a spear, then see a massive group of animals herded through a dirty factory to eventually be stunned and then torn apart. I'm not sure why, just disgusts me a bit.
I remember in HS a video was shown during a class about the meat industry and tons of kids went temporarily vegetarian, and the video wasn't even criticizing the industry, it was just explaining how it operates.
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
#19298216 - 12/19/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Are you a vegetarian/vegan Samurai Drifter? I've read loads and loads of conflicting evidence about whether the consumption of meat is truly necessary. Your definitely right on it being environmentally inefficient, but I have read a decent bit on how some meat is important to the development of the human brain
|
billy jowl
blah



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 1,496
|
|
If slaughter houses had glass walls, there would be alot more vegetarians.
~Paul Mcartney
--------------------
Edited by billy jowl (12/19/13 03:25 PM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
I doubt it. What there would be a lot less of is faggots whining about animals dying for people food. Almost every animal that dies in the wild dies a hideous death, either from disease or predation. Some of them get lucky and a rock falls on them from a great height and kills them instantly. That is a luxury death in nature. Does that pampered twat not know this?
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
Nature is cruel, this is true--but I still think most humans have an aversion to causing unnecessary suffering--not having this quality is known as being a psychopath.
Your assertion that increased knowledge of the practices within a slaughterhouse would lead to a decreased number of people complaining about said practices isn't a very logical one.
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Why? I think it would habituate them. Years ago most people lived an agrarian lifestyle and did their own killing and it didn't horrify them. Who gives a shit if the Upper West Side wimps are distressed. They get distressed when the buses run late.
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
If people were directly involved with the process of slaughtering an animal, they would be less off-put by the concept of slaughtering an animal. This is true. But, the modern day slaughterhouse industry often displays levels of cruelty and suffering that are unnecessary for the actual act of slaughter. Most people are intentionally ignorant of this aspect of the industry, for the exact reason that knowledge of ones role in the unnecessary suffering of another creature makes many people uncomfortable.
If you look at most cultures that are still closely connected to a hunting or pastoral way of life, you will find that most harbour a deep respect for the animal(s) they closely associate with, and try to cause as little suffering as possible--in cases where suffering is still present, a deep awareness of the suffering and sacrifice on the part of the animal is still present.
This connection to the animal is not present for most people who buy their food prepacked from a grocer.
example:
Quote:
khoj özeeri, the Tuvan method of killing a sheep. If slaughtering livestock can be seen as part of humans’ closeness to animals, khoj özeeri represents an unusually intimate version. Reaching through an incision in the sheep’s hide, the slaughterer severs a vital artery with his fingers, allowing the animal to quickly slip away without alarm, so peacefully that one must check its eyes to see if it is dead. In the language of the Tuvan people, khoj özeeri means not only slaughter but also kindness, humaneness, a ceremony by which a family can kill, skin, and butcher a sheep, salting its hide and preparing its meat and making sausage with the saved blood and cleansed entrails so neatly that the whole thing can be accomplished in two hours (as the Mongushes did this morning) in one’s good clothes without spilling a drop of blood. Khoj özeeri implies a relationship to animals that is also a measure of a people’s character. As one of the students explained, “If a Tuvan killed an animal the way they do in other places”—by means of a gun or knife—“they’d be arrested for brutality.”
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: If people were directly involved with the process of slaughtering an animal, they would be less off-put by the concept of slaughtering an animal. This is true. But, the modern day slaughterhouse industry often displays levels of cruelty and suffering that are unnecessary for the actual act of slaughter. Most people are intentionally ignorant of this aspect of the industry, for the exact reason that knowledge of ones role in the unnecessary suffering of another creature makes many people uncomfortable.
If you look at most cultures that are still closely connected to a hunting or pastoral way of life, you will find that most harbour a deep respect for the animal(s) they closely associate with, and try to cause as little suffering as possible--in cases where suffering is still present, a deep awareness of the suffering and sacrifice on the part of the animal is still present.
This connection to the animal is not present for most people who buy their food prepacked from a grocer.
example:
Quote:
khoj özeeri, the Tuvan method of killing a sheep. If slaughtering livestock can be seen as part of humans’ closeness to animals, khoj özeeri represents an unusually intimate version. Reaching through an incision in the sheep’s hide, the slaughterer severs a vital artery with his fingers, allowing the animal to quickly slip away without alarm, so peacefully that one must check its eyes to see if it is dead. In the language of the Tuvan people, khoj özeeri means not only slaughter but also kindness, humaneness, a ceremony by which a family can kill, skin, and butcher a sheep, salting its hide and preparing its meat and making sausage with the saved blood and cleansed entrails so neatly that the whole thing can be accomplished in two hours (as the Mongushes did this morning) in one’s good clothes without spilling a drop of blood. Khoj özeeri implies a relationship to animals that is also a measure of a people’s character. As one of the students explained, “If a Tuvan killed an animal the way they do in other places”—by means of a gun or knife—“they’d be arrested for brutality.”
It is true that there is no spiritual connection to the animal. I have no use whatsoever for the claptrap of "spirituality". It us complete bullshit in my opinion. Ask the water buffalo whose entrails are being swallowed by lions while he is still lowing plaintively for help from the herd about spirituality. Animals killed for human food die a much more humane death than almost any other animal.
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
You miss my point. I'm referring to a humans aversion to causing undue suffering, and made no reference to spiritual concepts--respect for life does not require any metaphysical assumptions. The Tuvan example is an extreme one, but sometimes that is best to illustrate a point.
I agree that many folks are off put by the idea of killing animals, period. Their argument is not mine. I'm talking about people who are habituated to the slaughter of animals still have the aversion towards causing undue suffering, and feeling elsewise is a mark of a psychopath.
It's the difference between asking someone to kill a chicken by quickly chopping off it's head, vs killing a chicken by repeatedly smashing it against a hard object.
Once again, I'm not talking about avoiding any suffering on the part of the animal--but to avoid unnecessary suffering. Humans have means at our disposal which that lion out on the savannah doesn't.
If I had to, I would not hesitate to rip out a buffalos belly to bring it down--but, currently, I don't--and so I won't.
--------------------
|
TheFakeSunRa
Bitch Splitter



Registered: 03/01/05
Posts: 16,449
Loc: Dirdy SOUF
|
|
It's a hell of a process getting meat to the millions and millions of Americans who enjoy eating it. If I can afford it and it doesn't make me sick I'm fine with it. Grateful for it, even. I've seen animals slaughtered in real life. It doesn't bother me at all. I think the American meat industry does a respectable job keeping it reasonably humane and efficient.
-------------------- [quote]Asante said: You constantly make posts thatr fling middle school insults at people you don't like mixed in with maladjusted psychopathic comments about wanting to beat up the other poster with a crowbar. You know how shit you are, you just don't give a fuck for precisely that reason. I disendorse you.[/quote]
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: You miss my point. I'm referring to a humans aversion to causing undue suffering, and made no reference to spiritual concepts--respect for life does not require any metaphysical assumptions. The Tuvan example is an extreme one, but sometimes that is best to illustrate a point.
I agree that many folks are off put by the idea of killing animals, period. Their argument is not mine. I'm talking about people who are habituated to the slaughter of animals still have the aversion towards causing undue suffering, and feeling elsewise is a mark of a psychopath.
It's the difference between asking someone to kill a chicken by quickly chopping off it's head, vs killing a chicken by repeatedly smashing it against a hard object.
Once again, I'm not talking about avoiding any suffering on the part of the animal--but to avoid unnecessary suffering. Humans have means at our disposal which that lion out on the savannah doesn't.
If I had to, I would not hesitate to rip out a buffalos belly to bring it down--but, currently, I don't--and so I won't.
OK. I think we actually do a pretty good job of making it easier than nature
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
--------------------
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
Quote:
OliverJames said: Are you a vegetarian/vegan Samurai Drifter? I've read loads and loads of conflicting evidence about whether the consumption of meat is truly necessary. Your definitely right on it being environmentally inefficient, but I have read a decent bit on how some meat is important to the development of the human brain
Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I would like to see sources for your claim that consumption of meat is "important to the development of the human brain." I have never heard such a thing. Many renowned and long-lived intellectuals were vegetarian, and there's plenty of evidence indicating that lifespans for vegetarians are equal to or greater than those of meat eaters.
The difference between obligate carnivores such as lions and us is that we have a choice. And while it may be worse to be eaten by a lion than have your throat cut in a slaughterhouse, overall I would say it's indisputable that wild animals have a higher quality of life than those raised in factory farms. They get to run free in their natural environment and some of them may live out their whole lives without falling victim to a predator. In short, they at least have a chance at a long and happy life. In a factory farm an animal has no freedom; they're shoved together in cramped, tiny cages which are breeding grounds for disease. In the case of cows, they're constantly hooked up to milking machines which drain every last drop from them. Combined with growth horomones, this means they have nearly doubled the cows' natural production of milk, which makes it cost effective. The downside, of course, is the suffering inflicted on the animal, which is of no consequence to the people running the business.
When you consider the amount of people who have an appetite for meat and the money to be made, it's really no surprise that cruel practices have become the norm. The fact is, the consumption of meat is unhealthy, environmentally unsustainable, and simply unnecessary. It is a choice.
Sources:
National Health Service -- Vegetarian Diet Linked to Longer Lifespan
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition -- Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans?
Compassion in World Farming -- Environment and Sustainability
Edited by NetDiver (12/21/13 12:15 PM)
|
Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
#19307722 - 12/21/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Death is not the problem here, we're all going to die sometime. it's the life the animals are going through... dirty metallic slaughterhouses, full of fecies, fear and pain.
just watch: www.meatvideo.com these are just a few examples of how animals are held in mass "production" facilities.
eating meat is not necessary. our body is not quite optimal for eating meat, because of our digestive system. there are cultures who are mostly vegetarian/vegan, like a big part of india (look up hinduism) also we're not natural predators, without tools we couldn't do shit to harm the most animals living nearby. ever tried beating a cattle to death, then eating it raw ? only because we can eat meat, doesn't mean we're an omnivore, because we could eat cardboard aswell :P
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html (also check out the sources of the site (always check sources))
if you are open minded, do the research yourself and then decide what to think. always keep reminding yourself to check if the source is really reliable
when you feel bad about killing animals, causing them to suffer for their entire lifes by paying other people to basicly enslave and torture them, maybe you should consider your beliefs and eating habits.
Edited by Impulze (12/21/13 12:08 PM)
|
Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
OliverJames said: So I was watching a documentary today on the lifestyle of certain Native American tribes, and one section of the doc discussed hunting and preparing meat for the rest of the tribe. Obviously there was no legitimate footage but they interviewed some real old relatives who talked about how they would chase after buffalo on horse and they would drag it back and thank the earth for providing such food. Now I'm not a religious person, but I had a lot of respect for the appreciation and thankfulness they expressed towards the earth and the animal. The animal was also slaughtered and prepared in a wooden teepee style house.
After finishing the doc, I started thinking about our modern day meat industry and how cold and disconnected it seemed when compared to the process of hunting performed by native Americans. I mean, the whole thing seems so much colder, dirtier, more unnatural. Just watching clips of some modern day slaughterhouses makes me quite uncomfortable. I understand that they're necessary, meat is sold on a huge scale and we dont all have time to go out and hunt our buffalo. I do hope though that in the future, we improve our slaughter houses, right now they just look disgustingly industrial. I've got a bias against stuff like that though.
Thoughts?
I think butchery is a beautiful craft. I'd rather raise my own pigs though.
I've worked in a slaughterhouse and agree mostly but yes it's a neccesity for our huge population.
They get administered CO2 so they lose their conciousness, then the throat is cut/a steel rod is put through. I wish we could do this in a more humane way but one way or another you're still killing the animal and i'd rather not have chemicals in meat. I don't think you can rationalize this without being a hypocrit unless you don't eat meat at all.
Over here they utilize every bit though, we were upgrading to machinery that was designed specifically for Pig anus because it's becoming way, way more popular 
The people in this industry have been of the most hilarious and cheerful kind, I really enjoyed working with them despite the conditions, they can seriously teach you A LOT.
"To me, life without veal stock, pork fat, sausage, organ meat, demi-glace, or even stinky cheese is a life not worth living. Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, an affront to all I stand for, the pure enjoyment of food. The body, these waterheads imagine, is a temple that should not be polluted by animal protein"
I'll eat everything and i'm grateful that we're omnivores. I felt proud bringing a quality piece of meat to the butcheryshop though at times it was a bit unnerving, the animals sometimes resembled human faces and that'd make me feel bad, that was due to the large scale though. If i'd end up lost in the woods i'd have no qualms killing an animal, hunger doesn't fare well with me. I don't eat meat everyday though, I don't think that's neccesary either 
Killing plants or killing animals, a man has to eat. i'm glad farmers take this upon them and respect them.
We're so fucked when the aliens land but then again, if we'd ever end up on another planet with life you know what i'd do? start eating everything there.
Edited by Beanhead (12/21/13 12:53 PM)
|
Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Set said: There are rituals present in slaughterhouses sometimes. It's called "kosher".
I understand that's the most inhumane way of slaughtering animals too. Instead of a quick shot with a pneumadic bolt gun they get their throat slit open and hoisted up in the air by their hind legs to drain the blood. While there are better ways and more humane ways to slaughter animals it should be made a crime to slaughter animals in the kosher way. There's no reason to tolerate these savages torturing animals to death in a sadistic tribal ritul when they can get a quick shot and have no misery.
also this, fuck kosher
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Beanhead]
#19308354 - 12/21/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The most inhumane way of slaughtering animals is that performed by non humans. See lions eating a water buffalo's entrails while it still lowing, a parasitic wasp laying an egg in a beetle and keeping it alive until the larva hatches. Starvation always seems like tons of fun and all animals live in fear all the time. Do I really need to go on?
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
You just can't get past that, eh? "Oh, look at those animals acting inhumanely! "
We wouldn't call it acting humanely, if they weren't qualities perceived to be uniquely human.
--------------------
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
|
I could care less how the animal is killed, as long as I can pick up some fresh turkey meat, chicken, or steak from the market. Nothing satisfies me like meat and especially the proteins. For the most part vegetarian's are skinny or underweight, from whom I have met; not enough daily protein in vegetables.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: You just can't get past that, eh? "Oh, look at those animals acting inhumanely! "
We wouldn't call it acting humanely, if they weren't qualities perceived to be uniquely human.
Why would I want to get past a fact? Animals slaughtered for human consumption almost always die an easier death than any others. Nature is a motherfucking heinous bitch.
--------------------
|
Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
|
|
Quote:
tahp93 said: I could care less how the animal is killed, as long as I can pick up some fresh turkey meat, chicken, or steak from the market. Nothing satisfies me like meat and especially the proteins. For the most part vegetarian's are skinny or underweight, from whom I have met; not enough daily protein in vegetables.
really, literally nothing statisfies you like meat ? 
Proteins are in vegetables, fruits, nuts and grains aswell and easier for us to absorb than animal protein, so that's not a valid reason.
It really depends on how much you get into nutrition and inform yourself about how to get a proper diet. You need to do it right, whenever you eat meat or not. it's possible to have a vegan junk food diet .
Vegans / vegetarians don't have nutrition issues if they do it right, supplements are not necessary
Health comes around if you have a good balance in your diet.
wrong nutrition is the root of most modern diseases.
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: You just can't get past that, eh? "Oh, look at those animals acting inhumanely! "
We wouldn't call it acting humanely, if they weren't qualities perceived to be uniquely human.
Why would I want to get past a fact? Animals slaughtered for human consumption almost always die an easier death than any others. Nature is a motherfucking heinous bitch.
Because the discussion, at least as I understand it, is regarding the method(s) of slaughter used in the present day slaughter industry--whether these practices are humane or not--and whether these practices can be improved upon.
The point that animals do not give other animals a humane death has nothing to do with this conversation, and is akin to someone continually piping up that animals don't have consent laws in a discussion on rape and sexual assault.
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
I think they do a pretty good job.
--------------------
|
i like cow poo
Nature Lover


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
Loc: Mother Nature's Vagina
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19308712 - 12/21/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Does anyone else think its fucked up that pigs are as smart as dogs and many people eat them?
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
|
People eat dogs, too.
--------------------
|
Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: People eat dogs, too.

Quote:
An advert featuring a giant panda bear with a bleeding, hacked-off nose has been produced by a local advertising agency as part of an international campaign to curb the slaughter of Africa’s rhinos.
Produced by Durban agency Roots Branding, the advert was published in Wildside magazine this week along with several articles on the rhino poaching crisis in SA.
It calls for an end to the use of rhino horn in traditional Chinese medicine and questions what would happen to China’s dwindling population of panda bears if Africans held the belief that bear noses contained medicinal properties.
According to Roots designer Torsten Fehsenfeld, the ad was not intended as a malicious “tit-for-tat” response, but to raise public awareness by contrasting the plight of two endangered wildlife species which served as icons or national symbols on different continents.
The ad has also been translated into Mandarin in the hope that South Africans will pass it on to friends and acquaintances in China and other parts of the Far East where rhino horn is crushed into powder form as a traditional remedy for fevers, rheumatism and other ailments.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19308787 - 12/21/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Impulze said: Proteins are in vegetables, fruits, nuts and grains aswell and easier for us to absorb than animal protein, so that's not a valid reason.
since when are humans capable of digesting cellulose to unlock all that nutrition? yes, while all the protiens we need are available in seeds, grains, nuts, fruits and veggies, it's far more difficult for us to get, not just because our digestive tract isnt efficient at breaking down cellulose but also from a logistical standpoint
Quote:
Vegans / vegetarians don't have nutrition issues if they do it right, supplements are not necessary
heme-iron is one of the nutrients we need, we cant obtain from plant based sources, only from meat, there's a handful. another thing is those wonderful proteins and bioavailability, as mentioned, we cant digest cellulose so even if something is high in protein we arent able to make efficient use so we have to consume far more of it. I also mentioned logistics, what's easily available for you isnt there for me, that includes both food and diet supplements, for me it's never as easy as popping down to the store and picking up what I want, that's not available for at least 100 miles so to get that needed nutrition I have to do as many vegetarians in 3rd world countries have done for centuries, something frequently overlooked by those pushing 'plant based diets', I have to consume eggs and dairy.
Quote:
wrong nutrition is the root of most modern diseases.
no it's not, that sounds like crap from a holistic healing site such as the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. it's just flat out bullshit
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
#19308876 - 12/21/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
OliverJames said: Are you a vegetarian/vegan Samurai Drifter? I've read loads and loads of conflicting evidence about whether the consumption of meat is truly necessary. Your definitely right on it being environmentally inefficient, but I have read a decent bit on how some meat is important to the development of the human brain
Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I would like to see sources for your claim that consumption of meat is "important to the development of the human brain." I have never heard such a thing. Many renowned and long-lived intellectuals were vegetarian, and there's plenty of evidence indicating that lifespans for vegetarians are equal to or greater than those of meat eaters.
The difference between obligate carnivores such as lions and us is that we have a choice. And while it may be worse to be eaten by a lion than have your throat cut in a slaughterhouse, overall I would say it's indisputable that wild animals have a higher quality of life than those raised in factory farms. They get to run free in their natural environment and some of them may live out their whole lives without falling victim to a predator. In short, they at least have a chance at a long and happy life. In a factory farm an animal has no freedom; they're shoved together in cramped, tiny cages which are breeding grounds for disease. In the case of cows, they're constantly hooked up to milking machines which drain every last drop from them. Combined with growth horomones, this means they have nearly doubled the cows' natural production of milk, which makes it cost effective. The downside, of course, is the suffering inflicted on the animal, which is of no consequence to the people running the business.
When you consider the amount of people who have an appetite for meat and the money to be made, it's really no surprise that cruel practices have become the norm. The fact is, the consumption of meat is unhealthy, environmentally unsustainable, and simply unnecessary. It is a choice.
Sources:
National Health Service -- Vegetarian Diet Linked to Longer Lifespan
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition -- Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans?
Compassion in World Farming -- Environment and Sustainability
It's actually pretty widespread information, I first heard it talked about on the science channel and then went and did my own research
Heres one source, if you'd like more I'd be happy to share: http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19308945 - 12/21/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Impulze said:
Quote:
tahp93 said: I could care less how the animal is killed, as long as I can pick up some fresh turkey meat, chicken, or steak from the market. Nothing satisfies me like meat and especially the proteins. For the most part vegetarian's are skinny or underweight, from whom I have met; not enough daily protein in vegetables.
really, literally nothing statisfies you like meat ? 
Proteins are in vegetables, fruits, nuts and grains aswell and easier for us to absorb than animal protein, so that's not a valid reason.
It really depends on how much you get into nutrition and inform yourself about how to get a proper diet. You need to do it right, whenever you eat meat or not. it's possible to have a vegan junk food diet .
Vegans / vegetarians don't have nutrition issues if they do it right, supplements are not necessary
Health comes around if you have a good balance in your diet.
wrong nutrition is the root of most modern diseases.
Yes nothing satisfies me like a slab of steak; what are you 12?
Meat is the highest and best source of protein; many essential amino acids in animal meat. Without meat and only veggies, nuts, etc.. you'd also have to consume way more calories to match the protein even in a 4 oz serving of chicken.
Lower bone density found in people who don't eat meat aswell; higher rate of fractures.
Edited by theRAPeutic (12/21/13 05:58 PM)
|
Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
|
|
Chill, i didn't mean to offend you.
Meat may have protein, but also contains cholesterol and saturated fats, which are unhealthy. 200g seitan (wheat protein) contains enough protein to reach the rda. proteins are broken down to amino acids and stored in the liver so it's not a problem to eat alot of different veggies over a period of time and not having enough protein.
It's a myth that plant protein is worth less than animal protein, the truth is that they're equal.
There are studies about the bone density in vegans and vegetarians and found equal to better than those of people who consume meat and dairy
Quote:
The study’s results suggest that vegetarian diets may be associated with slightly lower bone mineral density. "But the magnitude of the association is clinically insignificant," as the study’s lead researcher, Tuan Nguyen, explained in the paper’s conclusion.
Other studies have found that vegetarian and vegan diets have no clinically detrimental effect on bone health. Indeed, one recent study by the same researchers found that a lifelong vegan diet has no adverse effects on bone mineral density compared to an omnivorous diet. Many epidemiological studies show that high dairy intake is actually associated with increased fracture risk.
source: http://pcrm.org/media/news/vegetarian-diets-promote-bone-health
|
NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
|
Quote:
OliverJames said: Heres one source, if you'd like more I'd be happy to share: http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
Hate to tell you, but you misinterpreted that study. It's not talking about individual brain development at all; rather, it's discussing what led our ancestors to evolve larger brain sizes millions of years ago:
Quote:
Either way, the finding implies that meat must have been an integral, and not sporadic, element of the prehuman diet more than 1 million years ago, said the study's lead author, Manuel Domínguez-Rodrigo, an archaeologist at Complutense University in Madrid.
This supports the theory that meat fueled human brain evolution because meat — from arachnids to zebras — was plentiful on the African savanna, where humans evolved, and is the best package of calories, proteins, fats and vitamins B12 needed for brain growth and maintenance...
Both sets of researchers said their conclusion — that cooked food and meat were necessary for human brain development — is not a statement of how the human diet must have been, but rather how it likely was in order to make humans "human."
Today, we have global trade, refrigeration, and the ability to fortify non-animal products with vitamin B12, making it unnecessary to eat meat in order to gain proper nutrition.
Was meat once necessary for our survival? At one point. But technologically, we have advanced beyond that point.
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19316631 - 12/23/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The cholesterol and fat's aren't unhealthy if you live an active life and exercise like you should.
Try eating enough veggies, fruits and nuts to consume enough protein for building muscle; It won't get done.
Edited by theRAPeutic (12/23/13 03:09 PM)
|
i like cow poo
Nature Lover


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
Loc: Mother Nature's Vagina
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
|
|
not true there is a football player that went vegan. I'm sure there are plunty of vegetarians out there that are strong as fuck. Please stop spewing nonsense
|
unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
|
|
Quote:
i like cow poo said: not true there is a football player that went vegan. I'm sure there are plunty of vegetarians out there that are strong as fuck. Please stop spewing nonsense
Please stop spewing non sense about how eating meat is unhealthy. Who gives a flying fuck what the animal has to go through. Millions of people go through worse every damn year.
The funny thing is all these dumb fucks want to say they are trying to help lead better lives and help the world by being vegetarian, well guess what fucks? You are richer than 80% of the world to be able to decide on what type of food you want to eat every meal.
You bs causes and studies don't mean jack shit. We all die, what bitch wants to limit themselves on what they can and cannot indulge in? Dumb bitches that's who.
/rant
--------------------
|
OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
|
|
Quote:
tahp93 said: The cholesterol and fat's aren't unhealthy if you live an active life and exercise like you should.
Try eating enough veggies, fruits and nuts to consume enough protein for building muscle; It won't get done.
Gonna have to agree with this, I'd like to see some research into how meat consumption is not necessary for building decently large muscle mass. I've tried, I used to be vegetarian, it was extremely difficult and as soon as I started eating a piece of bison or fish a night, my gains increased dramatically.
And Samurai, that was my bad, I posted the wrong source, let me find another
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
Here's some facts folks:
it's possible to include meat in your diet, and still be healthy it's possible to not include meat in your diet, and still be healthy it's also possible to hold a strict vegan diet, and still be healthy
each of these diets provides benefits, and hold negatives--if you don't get your proper nutrition and a healthy amount of exercise, any of these diets can be unhealthy
you can generally stop listening to anyone who professes one type of diet as inherently better than another without losing out on any important information
ps: http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders
pps: the argument that being vegetarian is a choice afforded only to the rich is pretty funny--perhaps you are correct, if you are envisioning people who shop at 'whole foods markets' and other super expensive 'healthy organic' options--but if you take a look at the world, the ability to eat meat consistently is more often a luxury afforded only to the affluent, than it is to the poor (though, as in everything, exceptions do exist).
--------------------
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
ppps: a personal anecdote, i've done several seasons of treeplanting--sometimes while holding to a vegetarian diet, other times eating a completely unrestricted diet if any change of diet carried over to my ability to preform this very physically intense job, it was not significant enough for me to notice
--------------------
|
theRAPeutic
Hueman

Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
|
|
Quote:
i like cow poo said: not true there is a football player that went vegan. I'm sure there are plunty of vegetarians out there that are strong as fuck. Please stop spewing nonsense
What isn't true? One football player switching to Vegan when he was already big doesn't constitute anything. It's not enough protein for an adequate diet, period.
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,432
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 4 minutes, 12 seconds
|
|
Quote:
tahp93 said: What isn't true? One football player switching to Vegan when he was already big doesn't constitute anything. It's not enough protein for an adequate diet, period.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: you can generally stop listening to anyone who professes one type of diet as inherently better than another without losing out on any important information
--------------------
|
Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
|
|
Anyhow why is it always animals being raised on farms where people are so passionate about yet I never hear anything about the overfishing (large nets, TONS of fish, PACKED together), fishbreeding or eating fish in general?
are these 'lesser' animals somehow? Are they not as cute? Do you think they don't "feel" as much pain?
it's always the meat industry 
Edited by Beanhead (12/24/13 05:57 AM)
|
|