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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: You just can't get past that, eh? "Oh, look at those animals acting inhumanely! "
We wouldn't call it acting humanely, if they weren't qualities perceived to be uniquely human.
Why would I want to get past a fact? Animals slaughtered for human consumption almost always die an easier death than any others. Nature is a motherfucking heinous bitch.
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Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
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Quote:
tahp93 said: I could care less how the animal is killed, as long as I can pick up some fresh turkey meat, chicken, or steak from the market. Nothing satisfies me like meat and especially the proteins. For the most part vegetarian's are skinny or underweight, from whom I have met; not enough daily protein in vegetables.
really, literally nothing statisfies you like meat ? 
Proteins are in vegetables, fruits, nuts and grains aswell and easier for us to absorb than animal protein, so that's not a valid reason.
It really depends on how much you get into nutrition and inform yourself about how to get a proper diet. You need to do it right, whenever you eat meat or not. it's possible to have a vegan junk food diet .
Vegans / vegetarians don't have nutrition issues if they do it right, supplements are not necessary
Health comes around if you have a good balance in your diet.
wrong nutrition is the root of most modern diseases.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,430
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 2 minutes, 8 seconds
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: You just can't get past that, eh? "Oh, look at those animals acting inhumanely! "
We wouldn't call it acting humanely, if they weren't qualities perceived to be uniquely human.
Why would I want to get past a fact? Animals slaughtered for human consumption almost always die an easier death than any others. Nature is a motherfucking heinous bitch.
Because the discussion, at least as I understand it, is regarding the method(s) of slaughter used in the present day slaughter industry--whether these practices are humane or not--and whether these practices can be improved upon.
The point that animals do not give other animals a humane death has nothing to do with this conversation, and is akin to someone continually piping up that animals don't have consent laws in a discussion on rape and sexual assault.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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I think they do a pretty good job.
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i like cow poo
Nature Lover


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
Loc: Mother Nature's Vagina
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19308712 - 12/21/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Does anyone else think its fucked up that pigs are as smart as dogs and many people eat them?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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People eat dogs, too.
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Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: People eat dogs, too.

Quote:
An advert featuring a giant panda bear with a bleeding, hacked-off nose has been produced by a local advertising agency as part of an international campaign to curb the slaughter of Africa’s rhinos.
Produced by Durban agency Roots Branding, the advert was published in Wildside magazine this week along with several articles on the rhino poaching crisis in SA.
It calls for an end to the use of rhino horn in traditional Chinese medicine and questions what would happen to China’s dwindling population of panda bears if Africans held the belief that bear noses contained medicinal properties.
According to Roots designer Torsten Fehsenfeld, the ad was not intended as a malicious “tit-for-tat” response, but to raise public awareness by contrasting the plight of two endangered wildlife species which served as icons or national symbols on different continents.
The ad has also been translated into Mandarin in the hope that South Africans will pass it on to friends and acquaintances in China and other parts of the Far East where rhino horn is crushed into powder form as a traditional remedy for fevers, rheumatism and other ailments.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19308787 - 12/21/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Impulze said: Proteins are in vegetables, fruits, nuts and grains aswell and easier for us to absorb than animal protein, so that's not a valid reason.
since when are humans capable of digesting cellulose to unlock all that nutrition? yes, while all the protiens we need are available in seeds, grains, nuts, fruits and veggies, it's far more difficult for us to get, not just because our digestive tract isnt efficient at breaking down cellulose but also from a logistical standpoint
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Vegans / vegetarians don't have nutrition issues if they do it right, supplements are not necessary
heme-iron is one of the nutrients we need, we cant obtain from plant based sources, only from meat, there's a handful. another thing is those wonderful proteins and bioavailability, as mentioned, we cant digest cellulose so even if something is high in protein we arent able to make efficient use so we have to consume far more of it. I also mentioned logistics, what's easily available for you isnt there for me, that includes both food and diet supplements, for me it's never as easy as popping down to the store and picking up what I want, that's not available for at least 100 miles so to get that needed nutrition I have to do as many vegetarians in 3rd world countries have done for centuries, something frequently overlooked by those pushing 'plant based diets', I have to consume eggs and dairy.
Quote:
wrong nutrition is the root of most modern diseases.
no it's not, that sounds like crap from a holistic healing site such as the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. it's just flat out bullshit
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OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: NetDiver]
#19308876 - 12/21/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Samurai Drifter said:
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OliverJames said: Are you a vegetarian/vegan Samurai Drifter? I've read loads and loads of conflicting evidence about whether the consumption of meat is truly necessary. Your definitely right on it being environmentally inefficient, but I have read a decent bit on how some meat is important to the development of the human brain
Yes, I'm a vegetarian. I would like to see sources for your claim that consumption of meat is "important to the development of the human brain." I have never heard such a thing. Many renowned and long-lived intellectuals were vegetarian, and there's plenty of evidence indicating that lifespans for vegetarians are equal to or greater than those of meat eaters.
The difference between obligate carnivores such as lions and us is that we have a choice. And while it may be worse to be eaten by a lion than have your throat cut in a slaughterhouse, overall I would say it's indisputable that wild animals have a higher quality of life than those raised in factory farms. They get to run free in their natural environment and some of them may live out their whole lives without falling victim to a predator. In short, they at least have a chance at a long and happy life. In a factory farm an animal has no freedom; they're shoved together in cramped, tiny cages which are breeding grounds for disease. In the case of cows, they're constantly hooked up to milking machines which drain every last drop from them. Combined with growth horomones, this means they have nearly doubled the cows' natural production of milk, which makes it cost effective. The downside, of course, is the suffering inflicted on the animal, which is of no consequence to the people running the business.
When you consider the amount of people who have an appetite for meat and the money to be made, it's really no surprise that cruel practices have become the norm. The fact is, the consumption of meat is unhealthy, environmentally unsustainable, and simply unnecessary. It is a choice.
Sources:
National Health Service -- Vegetarian Diet Linked to Longer Lifespan
American Journal of Clinical Nutrition -- Does low meat consumption increase life expectancy in humans?
Compassion in World Farming -- Environment and Sustainability
It's actually pretty widespread information, I first heard it talked about on the science channel and then went and did my own research
Heres one source, if you'd like more I'd be happy to share: http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
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theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19308945 - 12/21/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Impulze said:
Quote:
tahp93 said: I could care less how the animal is killed, as long as I can pick up some fresh turkey meat, chicken, or steak from the market. Nothing satisfies me like meat and especially the proteins. For the most part vegetarian's are skinny or underweight, from whom I have met; not enough daily protein in vegetables.
really, literally nothing statisfies you like meat ? 
Proteins are in vegetables, fruits, nuts and grains aswell and easier for us to absorb than animal protein, so that's not a valid reason.
It really depends on how much you get into nutrition and inform yourself about how to get a proper diet. You need to do it right, whenever you eat meat or not. it's possible to have a vegan junk food diet .
Vegans / vegetarians don't have nutrition issues if they do it right, supplements are not necessary
Health comes around if you have a good balance in your diet.
wrong nutrition is the root of most modern diseases.
Yes nothing satisfies me like a slab of steak; what are you 12?
Meat is the highest and best source of protein; many essential amino acids in animal meat. Without meat and only veggies, nuts, etc.. you'd also have to consume way more calories to match the protein even in a 4 oz serving of chicken.
Lower bone density found in people who don't eat meat aswell; higher rate of fractures.
Edited by theRAPeutic (12/21/13 05:58 PM)
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Impulze
Another you

Registered: 10/14/12
Posts: 132
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Chill, i didn't mean to offend you.
Meat may have protein, but also contains cholesterol and saturated fats, which are unhealthy. 200g seitan (wheat protein) contains enough protein to reach the rda. proteins are broken down to amino acids and stored in the liver so it's not a problem to eat alot of different veggies over a period of time and not having enough protein.
It's a myth that plant protein is worth less than animal protein, the truth is that they're equal.
There are studies about the bone density in vegans and vegetarians and found equal to better than those of people who consume meat and dairy
Quote:
The study’s results suggest that vegetarian diets may be associated with slightly lower bone mineral density. "But the magnitude of the association is clinically insignificant," as the study’s lead researcher, Tuan Nguyen, explained in the paper’s conclusion.
Other studies have found that vegetarian and vegan diets have no clinically detrimental effect on bone health. Indeed, one recent study by the same researchers found that a lifelong vegan diet has no adverse effects on bone mineral density compared to an omnivorous diet. Many epidemiological studies show that high dairy intake is actually associated with increased fracture risk.
source: http://pcrm.org/media/news/vegetarian-diets-promote-bone-health
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Quote:
OliverJames said: Heres one source, if you'd like more I'd be happy to share: http://www.livescience.com/24875-meat-human-brain.html
Hate to tell you, but you misinterpreted that study. It's not talking about individual brain development at all; rather, it's discussing what led our ancestors to evolve larger brain sizes millions of years ago:
Quote:
Either way, the finding implies that meat must have been an integral, and not sporadic, element of the prehuman diet more than 1 million years ago, said the study's lead author, Manuel Domínguez-Rodrigo, an archaeologist at Complutense University in Madrid.
This supports the theory that meat fueled human brain evolution because meat — from arachnids to zebras — was plentiful on the African savanna, where humans evolved, and is the best package of calories, proteins, fats and vitamins B12 needed for brain growth and maintenance...
Both sets of researchers said their conclusion — that cooked food and meat were necessary for human brain development — is not a statement of how the human diet must have been, but rather how it likely was in order to make humans "human."
Today, we have global trade, refrigeration, and the ability to fortify non-animal products with vitamin B12, making it unnecessary to eat meat in order to gain proper nutrition.
Was meat once necessary for our survival? At one point. But technologically, we have advanced beyond that point.
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theRAPeutic
Hueman


Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
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Re: Slaughterhouses [Re: Impulze]
#19316631 - 12/23/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The cholesterol and fat's aren't unhealthy if you live an active life and exercise like you should.
Try eating enough veggies, fruits and nuts to consume enough protein for building muscle; It won't get done.
Edited by theRAPeutic (12/23/13 03:09 PM)
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i like cow poo
Nature Lover


Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 4,041
Loc: Mother Nature's Vagina
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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not true there is a football player that went vegan. I'm sure there are plunty of vegetarians out there that are strong as fuck. Please stop spewing nonsense
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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Quote:
i like cow poo said: not true there is a football player that went vegan. I'm sure there are plunty of vegetarians out there that are strong as fuck. Please stop spewing nonsense
Please stop spewing non sense about how eating meat is unhealthy. Who gives a flying fuck what the animal has to go through. Millions of people go through worse every damn year.
The funny thing is all these dumb fucks want to say they are trying to help lead better lives and help the world by being vegetarian, well guess what fucks? You are richer than 80% of the world to be able to decide on what type of food you want to eat every meal.
You bs causes and studies don't mean jack shit. We all die, what bitch wants to limit themselves on what they can and cannot indulge in? Dumb bitches that's who.
/rant
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OliverJames
Potion Brewer


Registered: 02/28/12
Posts: 3,085
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Quote:
tahp93 said: The cholesterol and fat's aren't unhealthy if you live an active life and exercise like you should.
Try eating enough veggies, fruits and nuts to consume enough protein for building muscle; It won't get done.
Gonna have to agree with this, I'd like to see some research into how meat consumption is not necessary for building decently large muscle mass. I've tried, I used to be vegetarian, it was extremely difficult and as soon as I started eating a piece of bison or fish a night, my gains increased dramatically.
And Samurai, that was my bad, I posted the wrong source, let me find another
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,430
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 2 minutes, 8 seconds
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Here's some facts folks:
it's possible to include meat in your diet, and still be healthy it's possible to not include meat in your diet, and still be healthy it's also possible to hold a strict vegan diet, and still be healthy
each of these diets provides benefits, and hold negatives--if you don't get your proper nutrition and a healthy amount of exercise, any of these diets can be unhealthy
you can generally stop listening to anyone who professes one type of diet as inherently better than another without losing out on any important information
ps: http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders
pps: the argument that being vegetarian is a choice afforded only to the rich is pretty funny--perhaps you are correct, if you are envisioning people who shop at 'whole foods markets' and other super expensive 'healthy organic' options--but if you take a look at the world, the ability to eat meat consistently is more often a luxury afforded only to the affluent, than it is to the poor (though, as in everything, exceptions do exist).
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,430
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 2 minutes, 8 seconds
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ppps: a personal anecdote, i've done several seasons of treeplanting--sometimes while holding to a vegetarian diet, other times eating a completely unrestricted diet if any change of diet carried over to my ability to preform this very physically intense job, it was not significant enough for me to notice
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theRAPeutic
Hueman

Registered: 07/22/13
Posts: 8,702
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Quote:
i like cow poo said: not true there is a football player that went vegan. I'm sure there are plunty of vegetarians out there that are strong as fuck. Please stop spewing nonsense
What isn't true? One football player switching to Vegan when he was already big doesn't constitute anything. It's not enough protein for an adequate diet, period.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,430
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 2 minutes, 8 seconds
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Quote:
tahp93 said: What isn't true? One football player switching to Vegan when he was already big doesn't constitute anything. It's not enough protein for an adequate diet, period.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: you can generally stop listening to anyone who professes one type of diet as inherently better than another without losing out on any important information
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