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InvisibleSimplepowa
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Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame
    #19295786 - 12/18/13 11:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

December 17, 2013 - By Meghan Ralston

Reports on deaths related to Ecstasy and methamphetamine use are always heartbreaking. It’s easy to understand why people are worried about young people consuming stimulants at music festivals. Drug-related fatalities at large music events are, thankfully, still pretty rare given the sheer number of music festivals and the enormous crowds many of them draw, and with a little effort, we could reduce drug-related harms even further. But don’t expect event promoters to do all the work—people who use drugs and our prohibition-approach to all of this bear some responsibility, too.

People who use drugs, particularly young people, need access to the information that could save their lives. We do an abysmal job at educating about the basics of drug use safety and risks. We tell young people, “Ecstasy can be dangerous, don’t use it.” But we fail to provide lifesaving information, such as “If you do decide to use Ecstasy, make sure you have constant access to water, sip it frequently, and remember to take ‘chill out’ breaks from dancing to avoid potentially dangerous overheating.”

Concert promoters should be encouraged to share this kind of lifesaving information with attendees. It would be so easy and simple for musical festivals to add a “Stay Safe” section on the event’s website, including information about how to avoid or respond to a suspected drug overdose. The promoters could allow non-profit organizations such as DanceSafe to make drug safety testing kits available at the event.

Just two festivals alone – Burning Man and Coachella – each attracting more than 50,000 guests each year--could set an incredible precedent for the rest of the festival industry by stepping up and simply making overdose prevention and response information more widely available to their customers, on the event website and at the event itself.

Many young people, despite our warnings and threats, will experiment with drug use at music festivals and other major events that attract scores of their peers. This is reality, whether we like it or not. One of the best ways to reduce the possibility of drug-related death is to not ingest a substance without knowing what it is--and to have a plan in place to deal with the very rare health emergencies that might occur.

Don’t use drugs alone. Stay hydrated. Rest if you feel fatigued. Don’t mix different substances. Take small amounts of a substance until you can determine how it affects you, “start low and go slow.” And most importantly, call 911 if someone needs emergency help. California has a 911 Good Samaritan law that protects callers and overdose victims from arrest for small amounts of drugs and drug paraphernalia when medical assistance is summoned to the scene of a suspected drug overdose.

Music event promoters need to do their part to help save lives, but so do all of us. Talk to young people about what it means to be safe if they choose to use drugs. Educate yourself about risky drug combinations and overdose response. It’s simple education, and it can save lives.

Meghan Ralston is the harm reduction manager for the Drug Policy Alliance.

http://www.drugpolicy.org/blog/molly-not-whats-killing-people-music-festivals-prohibition-blame


--------------------
Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

---

Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

---

Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19295806 - 12/18/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I knew it had to be a from a paper or site that no one will ever read...  Unless they're already in favor of chemical liberation.  I knew it was too good to be true that a major league reporter who knows better stepped up and said what needs to be said.  Some day soon I hope.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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OfflineLittleman

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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19296717 - 12/19/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

unfortunatley stuff like this just cant really happen in the UK.
a festival can easily have its liscence revoked before it goes ahead if the local area's council or any other higher-ups suspect it of encouraging drug use.
a harm reduction page on the site would be amazing, but you'll never find it.
to all official means they all need to be strictly anti-drugs.
even the ones that are very drug friendly once you're there will just have a cut&paste disclaimer like this on their site:

"What Are The Policies And Procedures In Place For Drugs And Illegal Substances?
The dealing in or use of illegal substances is against the law and is in no way condoned by ______ festival. These laws are in place at the ______ just as they are at any other location throughout the country. Police and security will be onsite to carry out searches to prevent any illegal substances from being brought onto the site and prevent any use or dealing within the site. Persons suspected of dealing or using illegal substances at Mischief will be searched and may be ejected from the site. Not only that but you are also likely to be arrested and dealt with by the Police.

Using drugs is likely to cause frightening, disorientating and dangerous situations, especially in crowds. You may suffer adverse reactions and become ill, depressed or frightened. There is so much ______ to be enjoyed that this will not aid your weekend in a positive manor. If you need help or assistance then either visit our medical or welfare facilities onsite or ask one of our staff to guide you to them. For further advice please click here and talk to frank."


there is one group called kosmicare http://www.kosmicareuk.org/ which is entirely volunteer run and appears at a few of the smaller uk festivals but ive never seen anything like it done by the organisers proper.


--------------------
"Well Right after the 4th hit he was so far gone he puked all over him self. He had no clue that he threw up on him self and was finger painting in it on his stomach."
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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Littleman]
    #19296921 - 12/19/13 07:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A group of my people and I were talking about making up to date harm reduction pamphlets to hand out at shows and ask for small donations to put back into it and keep it going. 

We'd include what current prints to look out for that were suspect RC.  How to tell if your print or powder might be an RC.  What to be suspicious of in a dealer.  How to call bullshit.  What to do to keep yourself healthy on whatever substance you are on.

Just as many things as we could collectively think of to help spread the word and keep people safe.....


But really the same person who is going to die on an RC are probably the same people who would disregard a pamphlet, or any caution for that matter.


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OfflineAtrium
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Littleman]
    #19296984 - 12/19/13 08:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Littleman said:
There is so much ______ to be enjoyed that this will not aid your weekend in a positive manor..



I read this as "...so much shit" and it made it better :smile:


--------------------
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The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry. :tongue2:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Simplepowa]
    #19297136 - 12/19/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That is some stupid shit.  How, exactly, is prohibition stopping promoters and others from telling people to stay hydrated on molly?

Typical druggie logic: It's not the drug's fault..it's prohibition's fault.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297328 - 12/19/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Typical druggie logic: It's not the drug's fault..it's prohibition's fault.




It's prohibition's fault that many people can't access the drug they want to experience and are instead given a more dangerous chemical in its place by unscrupulous or uneducated sellers.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19297334 - 12/19/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's not what the story in the OP is about, though.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297344 - 12/19/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

True, but what you refer to as "typical druggie logic" is about more than whether festival promoter's say to drink water or not, it was about whether the drug or prohibition is at fault for what's 'Killing People at Music Festivals..'.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19297355 - 12/19/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The title of this thread says that molly doesn't kill people, prohibition does....then it goes on to talk about education and informing people to drink water.

Obviously prohibition does create some problems, but arguments like this that blame every drug issue on prohibition are nonsense, and they hurt credibility.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297366 - 12/19/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well I agree with the title.  Molly isn't what's killing people.  Other drugs sold as molly are.  Which, without prohibition, would really not be happening.  I see what you're saying and do agree to some extent.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297374 - 12/19/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That is some stupid shit.  How, exactly, is prohibition stopping promoters and others from telling people to stay hydrated on molly?

Typical druggie logic: It's not the drug's fault..it's prohibition's fault.



Prohibition does so you cant publicly speak about drugs in your events..

even though 90% of event partakers do drugs

you have to keep it silent

then someone dies, from an unknown drug

and 10 other people overdose on unknown drugs, and ambulances get called, happens every month
taxpayers pay here

only due to prohibition


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InvisibleEminence
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297376 - 12/19/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That is some stupid shit.  How, exactly, is prohibition stopping promoters and others from telling people to stay hydrated on molly?

Typical druggie logic: It's not the drug's fault..it's prohibition's fault.




She mentioned wanting test kits at concerts and festivals. People buying drugs so often that aren't what they paid for is prohibition's fault, but that was barely mentioned. Bad wording for the title


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19297377 - 12/19/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Right, because without prohibition, no one would die from overheating on molly.

:facepalm:


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297387 - 12/19/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's no longer the most common cause of death or health issues at festivals.  Getting sold things as MDMA that are not MDMA is.  I was at a bar the other weekend and got to talking to some guy.  He got to telling me about the "bomb molly" he had.  Didn't sound right to me so he took me over to look at it.  It was CLEARLY methylone.  First time it really hit me how prevalent and how uneducated people are.  This dude was selling the shit, and didn't know any better.  He really thought he had some fire MDMA.  At my recommendation he bought a test kit and texted me the other day saying I was right and thanking me.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297388 - 12/19/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Right, because without prohibition, no one would die from overheating on molly.

:facepalm:



Overheating is not the problem... please think/research before you exclaim nonsense

most people die from unknown drugs mixed in with their molly, or E-pill

again due to prohibition...


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19297390 - 12/19/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Irrelevant to this thread and to the title thereof.

This thread is about people dying at festivals because of lack of education/information.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297397 - 12/19/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Irrelevant to this thread and to the title thereof.

This thread is about people dying at festivals because of lack of education/information.




No it's not irrelevant.  You can't go from speaking about prohibition and "druggy logic" in these sweeping, general terms, and then cutting back and defining everything in terms of "only what the article says" about overheating.  Prohibition is a bigger issue than just overheating at festivals, so why not stop acting like you are discussing prohibition in general if you really just want to talk about people drinking water at festivals?

Aside from that, teaching kids "Just say no" and nothing beyond that is all related to prohibition and does a lot more harm than if they had some straight information growing up.  Not everyone who wants to try something as popular as MDMA gets on the shroomery or erowid or has even heard of either of those.  Nor do they probably even know that its possible to get something that ISN'T MDMA when people say its "molly".


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19297403 - 12/19/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

druggie logic=blaming every harm from drugs on prohibition, even ones that have nothing to do with prohibition.

That is exactly what the OP did here.

What part of that is hard to understand?


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297428 - 12/19/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Drug-related fatalities at large music events are, thankfully, still pretty rare given the sheer number of music festivals and the enormous crowds many of them draw, and with a little effort, we could reduce drug-related harms even further. But don’t expect event promoters to do all the work—people who use drugs and our prohibition-approach to all of this bear some responsibility, too.

People who use drugs, particularly young people, need access to the information that could save their lives. We do an abysmal job at educating about the basics of drug use safety and risks. We tell young people, “Ecstasy can be dangerous, don’t use it.” But we fail to provide lifesaving information, such as “If you do decide to use Ecstasy, make sure you have constant access to water, sip it frequently, and remember to take ‘chill out’ breaks from dancing to avoid potentially dangerous overheating.”




She very clearly isn't blaming the fact that the drug is illegal, in itself, as the cause of people not knowing this information.  She talks about things that arise because of prohibition, like the "Just Say No" bullshit instead of teaching kids the truth and ways to stay safe IF they ever choose to take something.  She puts the blame on promoters and the people who use the drugs themselves, as well as on prohibition.  I don't think you read very carefully if you're implying that she is ONLY blaming prohibition and saying there would be no harm ever done to anyone if only they were legal haha.  Very obvious that she is not saying they are harmless.  She's not saying prohibition stops promoter's from telling people to drink water, rather that this information should be made available in a class where they are being brainwashed with "just say no, just say no" and likely would have access to sensible information like this if it weren't for prohibition.


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19297488 - 12/19/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

First, "just say no" IS sensible information. 

Second, what is stopping promoters and others from distributing additional information?


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297537 - 12/19/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

She didn't say anyone is stopping them! She is advising them to do just that. She's not saying aw, prohibition makes it impossible to do that.  You're twisting the words of the author in order to have something to argue about.

Secondly, just say no works about as well as sex ed classes telling kids to abstain from sex until they're married and telling them nothing else. It's not going to happen, period. So do we want 16 year olds fucking with no idea of what std's are or how a condom works or do we want them to do it safely if they are going to choose to participate?  It's the exact same with drugs. The only different is that sex isn't illegal. Hence prohibition being to blame for this childish approach to drug "education".


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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InvisibleSynthe
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19297922 - 12/19/13 01:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Typical druggie logic: It's not the drug's fault..it's prohibition's fault.



:agentgtfo:


--------------------



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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Synthe]
    #19298137 - 12/19/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Are there any actual data on festival deaths?

I'd assume plenty of people die from alcohol intoxication at bars/parties etc. and its legal. 

I'm not convinced legalizing MDMA and handing it out like candy at festivals would decrease deaths; even if safety procedures and education were implemented.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Offlinedokunai
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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19298624 - 12/19/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The title of this thread says that molly doesn't kill people, prohibition does....then it goes on to talk about education and informing people to drink water.

Obviously prohibition does create some problems, but arguments like this that blame every drug issue on prohibition are nonsense, and they hurt credibility.





OK, let's imagine a kid at a festival, through his own naivete manages to ingest too much MDMA.  I suppose you've never taken too much of anything either by accident or being sold the wrong substance or even just stupidity.  But if you did, wWhat did you likely do next?  "I'll ride it out, it feels like I'm having a stroke, this is the worst I've felt in my entire life but I won't die because I've tripped balls way harder than this."  Or more importantly, "no matter what happens to me it can't be worse that what the police will do."  Maybe you've heard of good samaritan laws here in the US.  If you call in to report a life-threatening drug overdose, medical responders here would rather see the overdosee's life saved instead of the responsible person who called in the emergency face possibly decades in jail.  Makes it a real toughy of a decision, how to act in such a circumstance, doesn't it? 

Imagine another kid who isn't such a hard headed psychonaut as you mate and is really afraid he will die.  What options does he have?  Heading for the nearest hospital in an abmbulance can likely have a plethora of terrible consequences.  Provided he survives, we could be looking at many $10,000s of thousands of dollars that will likely see his wages garnished because he happens to be a fry cook at a local eatery.  He will also be labeled as a junky with drug seeking tendencies.  A few years later when he tears an ACL during a game for his work league and can barely walk, Dr. Fuckwit will certainly see that he doesn't get anything stronger than ibuprofen.

More than anything, prohibition costs lives and ruins the ones that live to tell the tail.  But hey, what's more important?  A nameless, faceless corporation making hundreds of thousands of dollars off of the admittedly carelesss mistake of a young man.  Or is it providing a public service that doesn't have the side effect of financially crippling the remainder of the life of a foolish young man who felt the inescapable need to test the boundaries of the mystery of life?


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: dokunai]
    #19298634 - 12/19/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Cool rant, bro.  What does that have to do with education/information at festivals?


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19298659 - 12/19/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
First, "just say no" IS sensible information. 





Not really. Teens/young adults do drugs, telling them not to do it when they are gonna do it anyway is just redundant. Its like telling teens not to have sex and refuse to provide them with condoms. They are gonna have sex... so at least give them condoms and give them the option to be safe if they decide to do it.

Same thing for drugs... festivals should be able to provide a myriad of information about drug safety without having to worry about being shut down because it looks like they cater to drug users. Everyone knows there is drugs at festivals, promoting drug safety is essentially saying "Drugs are here!"


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19298663 - 12/19/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just stawp, you sound like some bias snobby asshole. Half of the questions you ask in your stuck up replies have already been answered.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Uzziel]
    #19298669 - 12/19/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's not redundant.  Ineffective, but not redundant.  That doesn't make the advice any less sensible, though.

Festivals CAN provide drug safety information.  If they choose not to for fear of being shut down, then that's on them.  There's no law against distributing such information.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19298679 - 12/19/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So if a festival doesn't hand out safety info due to fear of being persecuted for drug use it's their fault? I'm not sure if you are aware of how much $$$ festivals cost but the last thing the people hosting one will do is anything that would jeopardize it from happening.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: musiclover420]
    #19298697 - 12/19/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why would they be persecuted for handing out information?  That's just ridiculous.  This site has been up for a decade and a half, and has it been shut down?  Has it ever been harassed by LE?  The answer is no to both of those questions.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19298758 - 12/19/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_Drug_Anti-Proliferation_Act

Quote:

Enlil said:
Cool rant, bro.  What does that have to do with education/information at festivals?




You keep clinging to this statement like a child.  The post that you wrote that in response to was well thought out and written and clearly shows how prohibition can be a cause of deaths at festivals, which is what the fucking article is about.  Not just about handing out information at festivals, are you capable of seeing beyond that or no?


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19298770 - 12/19/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Why would they be persecuted for handing out information?  That's just ridiculous.  This site has been up for a decade and a half, and has it been shut down?  Has it ever been harassed by LE?  The answer is no to both of those questions.




You're comparing a festival to the shroomery?

One actually has drugs present. The shroomery is just an internet site that was designed for harm prevention.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19298881 - 12/19/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
The post that you wrote that in response to was well thought out and written



Actually, it was quite poorly written and failed to address the issues raised by the article in the OP.

I don't see why you don't understand this, but it obvious that you're not going to.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19298917 - 12/19/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Read the fucking title of the article.  The point she is making goes well beyond handing out information at festivals, which is apparently all that you are able to focus on here simply because she mentions it.  The author recommends that festival promoters give out information and that the drug takers themselves seek out information.  Where does she say that they can't hand out information?  She specifically says that she thinks they should.  What don't you fucking get?  As if prohibition implies 'prohibition of handing out information'.  Prohibition is what causes many of the deaths at music festivals.  For reason beyond the fact that the promoters didn't hand out info.  Yes, she mentions that in the article.  Does that mean you can't see beyond it?  Jesus man....  If the point was that handing out info at festivals is illegal she would have titled it accordingly, but clearly the topic is PROHIBITION.  And all of the various facets that that affects.

But also, it is illegal for places to profit from or maintain an area for the taking of drugs.  So I would not be at all surprised if the people in charge of festivals could be legally implicated as operating something for the purpose of people taking drugs if they were to be responsible for handing out information about how to safely take drugs at something like a gigantic music festival. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_Drug_Anti-Proliferation_Act


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


Edited by Shpongle1 (12/19/13 05:10 PM)


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Enlil]
    #19301169 - 12/20/13 03:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That is some stupid shit.  How, exactly, is prohibition stopping promoters and others from telling people to stay hydrated on molly?
.





quite simple:

Prohibition means promoters must adopt a strictly anti-drugs policy in the eyes of the law for their events in order for them to go ahead.


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Re: Molly is Not What's Killing People at Music Festivals, Prohibition is to Blame [Re: Littleman]
    #19312973 - 12/22/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't believe that prohibition forces people to misidentify research chemicals, adulterate them, and underestimate the doses.

And, I don't believe that taxation and regulation necessarily results in convenience and quality.


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