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Offlineblojo02184
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2 qts down, is the last one down also??
    #19292976 - 12/18/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So, I knocked up one qt Rye Berry. It colonized nicely. I then transferred it into 3 more qts inside my still air box. I believe 2 of them are fucked as i found this inside the jar last night upon inspection.

These jars were transferred into about 2 weeks ago. ~12 days


Jar one


Jar Two


What would have lead to this happening?
Is the one other jar fucked like these 2?
Did i not wash them enough?
Did i sterilize wrong?
Improper sterile technique?
My still air box not still enough????

:kingcrankey: ARGH!!!


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19293250 - 12/18/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yeast contam i think, couldn't tell ya y though:shrug:


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OfflineSynKyd
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19293412 - 12/18/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not familiar with that but it doesn't look horrible.....you may want to wait it out until fully colonized then smell them and see what you got.  If they start to stink before then you're probably :screwed:


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: SynKyd]
    #19294604 - 12/18/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

SinysterKyd said:
I'm not familiar with that but it doesn't look horrible.....you may want to wait it out until fully colonized then smell them and see what you got.  If they start to stink before then you're probably :screwed:



:facepalm:
No, I will PC contents then rid these fuckers. Back to square one...


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19294613 - 12/18/13 06:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You don't have to PC it to throw it away. Just do it outside if you're worried.

edit - open it outside


Edited by Juicin (12/18/13 06:37 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: Juicin]
    #19294640 - 12/18/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It looks bacterial, but don't quote me. If it's bacterial you could open it in your grow room. Sporulating fungal infections are the real problem.


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Offlineinvitro


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19294764 - 12/18/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's somewhat rare but I can say with some degree of confidence that you have mites.  They eat the grains and poop out those little nuggets, and multiply.  The mites are so small that you can barely see them.  Most of the time they don't even move, like aphids.  He's probably burrowed into the grain.  Once they multiply by the tens of thousands it becomes quite obvious whats going on because the mites will be all over the glass.  They are usually whitish or translucent.  They are smaller than aphids but shaped similarly.

I had quite a bad problem with these and I didn't know what was going on for months, they seem to be able to get into jars even with lids on, provided that the lids are rubber side up.  Thus I have decided to go rubber down from now on.  They attack fruiting mushrooms and straight-grain cakes, I don't know how a bulk tub would fare because I didn't try it.  You may not be able to use that room for fruiting anymore unless you blast the room with your favorite noxious chemical, even then you may have problems.  I'd pc the those jars fast and hope for the best.

Also quarantine the third jar - get it out of the house.


Edited by invitro (12/18/13 07:25 PM)


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: invitro]
    #19294768 - 12/18/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

wouldn't those nuggets be bigger than the mites themselves if it's hard to see the mites and they can crawl under lids?


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19294781 - 12/18/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't really know what the nuggets are, but those are the right size.  Perhaps they are eggs, cocoons.  It looks exactly like what I had.  If you want to wait and see, take it out of the house, wrap up the seal ring so no mites can escape and watch.  I'm betting it won't turn out well, sorry.  The mites are about 5x the size of those little nuggets by the way, easy to see when you blow it up with a camera pic, but not so easy with the naked eye, when there are a bunch of little nuggets all over the place, and they don't like to move, and you don't know what your looking for.  I can spot the mites no problem now, so they are hard to see if your not aware of them is what I meant.

I'm 99% sure you have mites, the size and pattern of those balls is their calling card, I've seen it enough times to have very little doubt.  The mycelium won't slow down the mites at all in case your wondering, they will eat pretty much everything.  It's hard to say if they are eating the myc but they will eat the grains that are colonized by myc, even if it's been consolidating for weeks.


Edited by invitro (12/18/13 07:42 PM)


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: invitro]
    #19294804 - 12/18/13 07:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

crazy stuff. Never heard of a mite problem but it sounds very plausible. I want to know now haha.


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19294976 - 12/18/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well then, its settled.

Saran wrapping jar opening, then adding clear packing tape so as to make a better seal. And possibly some silicone or Vaseline, something greasy to adhere both surfaces.

I will update with pictures roughly every 12 hours. Sometimes 8 sometimes 16.

Invitro, do you think storage of the dry rye could be propagating them also?
And for size reference, as small as an aphid or smaller? Like them really tiny red spider/thingies.
Will they survive a PC cycle if they are burrowed into the grain?


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19295055 - 12/18/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

blojo02184 said:
Well then, its settled.

Saran wrapping jar opening, then adding clear packing tape so as to make a better seal. And possibly some silicone or Vaseline, something greasy to adhere both surfaces.

I will update with pictures roughly every 12 hours. Sometimes 8 sometimes 16.

Invitro, do you think storage of the dry rye could be propagating them also?
And for size reference, as small as an aphid or smaller? Like them really tiny red spider/thingies.
Will they survive a PC cycle if they are burrowed into the grain?




your jars are going to still need gas exchange.


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Offlineinvitro


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19295076 - 12/18/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

They multiply kind of slowly but steadily.  You might see an 7 fold increase in activity within a week, but that is a very rough estimate.
It took a few months for them to get to full force for me, because I didn't know it was mites.  I thought it was some kind of weird bacteria.

I'm only guessing they got through the lid, they may have survived the pc cycle but I find that very hard to believe.  I never found them in dry grains and they certainly had the opportunity to attack nearby dry grains.  They are about the size of the red spider mite things that you sometimes see in a garden.  I don't know what species they are.  Sounds like a good plan you have about wrapping them up.

Remotely possible they could burrow through the sfd and leave a hole so small as to not be detected, but I haven't found evidence of this.  Good luck.


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: invitro]
    #19295544 - 12/18/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well, in defense of the sfd, if said creature buried a hole in sfd, then it would render said sfd useless because it will not have a uniform micron size of .2micron.

And bodhista... Very valid points. I have inspected areas with a typography scope. It almosts looks like an invisible/transparent mycelium with the balls at the end of spikes. The grains with said material on it has turned a pinkish/orangey color.

And as far as I'm concerned, whatever it may be, mites+bacteria/sporulating mold, it can die a slow painful death by suffocation and observation. :lol:


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19295560 - 12/18/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
That's contaminated. Those jars are, most probably, lost to it. Regarding the kind of contam, I don't know but I would say it's some kind of fusarium sp.




Fusarium species is a possibility.


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Offlineinvitro


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19295588 - 12/18/13 10:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It could be that in my case the mites carried a fusarium.  Maybe you'll get lucky and just have the fusarium without the mites, I hope.


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: invitro]
    #19295608 - 12/18/13 10:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hopefully.
If I have mites, I got some serious cleaning to do.

A couple says of observation will tell


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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blojo02184]
    #19295667 - 12/18/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

man mites are ugly little suckers... this is what those nuggets look like that they lay..



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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: silverstem]
    #19295857 - 12/18/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

it looks like yeast.

take a look at this thread...

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18436762

looks like tiny tiny dots.  I had one also, but my dots were pink



I can't find it now, but there was a post about someone letting a jar con tamed with yeast (at 80% colonization) finish, and the myc beat the yeast.  he/she spawned with success, so I figured I'd try (I DO NOT ADVOCATE THIS).  so when the jar was 100%, I could see no pink at all, I waited an extra week and spawned to coir/verm 1:1 ratio in small bucket.  the jar did not smell bad, or like a normal good mushroom smell.  looks like this now



note that while spawn run was normal for that ratio for me, like 5 days or maybe 4, it has been in Fruiting conditions for over a 13 days with no hyphal knotting, but no bad smell.  just an experiment, again I DO NOT ADVOCATE THIS (I don't need constant supply of fruits, so after a good mono harvest, I kinda experiment with grains/substrates, FC's, etc. this is an example).  I was just in the mood to see if myc could fight yeast (if that indeed was/is what u have).  mine did not smell at spawning, and the extra time after 100% colonized maybe helped (except with fruiting...?).  Even Transcending Life in that thread mentions that myc doesn't "overtake con tams" it just "covers them" so what I did was just a "what if" 

better to ditch jars most likely.


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19295893 - 12/19/13 12:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ok so i found the thread about the dude who spawned with yeast, again I do not advocate this, and also we r unsure what ur jar problem may be...

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14131235#14131235


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19295970 - 12/19/13 12:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I had a jar like the one blindingleaf posted, little white dots randomly distributed.  The "yeast" held part of the jar, the bottom part.  The good myc held the top jar and there they sat for about 2 weeks at a stand off.  If I recall, I removed the metal lid from under the sfd.  The myc took over.  I guess the yeast couldn't handle the lower humidity once the fae was increased.  I had low humidity (55%) at that time and higher temps (80 or so during the day).  I think the yeast couldn't handle the climate change.  I tried fruiting it as straight grain, I don't think it did well but it was MS so it's hard to say. 


Edited by invitro (12/19/13 12:26 PM)


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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: invitro]
    #19297288 - 12/19/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Amanita virosa said:
yeast.

powdery and speckled!  you can still use it for spawn and will likely not notice  much of a difference in performance so long as the cube myc is also growing along




Amanita Virosa Ive seen say numerous times that yeast infections in spawn isn't really a big deal, and I do believe Amanita owns a mushroom farm if I'm not mistaken. For one or two quarts though is it worth it ?

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
I would simply change my agar type until the yeast problem ends. Use something like rye agar or brf agar, it's very dark and you will be able to see the yeast. It's also just as simple to prepare. I have been successful just grinding some rye berries into a flour with a coffee grinder, add water until it's runny, thats all the ingredients and prep. Of course you cannot see through it.

Just use this agar temporarily to get a clean yeast-free culture, then transfer from it.

I've also had yeast in my grain jars and no idea where it came from, however my mycelium always tends to win the battle over yeast, it will fully colonized contaminated grains, just a bit slower.




Edited by Trusted cuItivator (12/19/13 09:55 AM)


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19298115 - 12/19/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for that man!

My powdery speckles are a pinkish/orangey color sadly to say. Once j get home I'll post pictures of todays progress on whatever it was.


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Offlineblojo02184
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Re: 2 qts down, is the last one down also?? UPDATE!!!! [Re: blojo02184]
    #19299182 - 12/19/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



So, this is the 2 jars today.
Pinkish/Orangey Color still there. Balls seem to have grown in number, not size.

First 2 pictures go with the the second jar.
second set of 2 pictures go with the First jar.


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