Home | Community | Message Board

Out-Grow.com - Mushroom Growing Kits & Supplies
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineYthanA
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/08/97
Posts: 18,774
Loc: NY/MA/VT Borderlands Flag
Last seen: 2 hours, 29 minutes
In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime"
    #19291883 - 12/18/13 05:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime"
dallasobserver.com

Police in Parker County had been watching Michael Fred Wehrenberg's home for a month when, late in the summer of 2010, they received a tip from a confidential informant that Wehrenberg and several others were "fixing to" cook meth. Hours later, after midnight, officers walked through the front door, rounded up the people inside, and kept them in handcuffs in the front yard for an hour and a half.

The only potential problem, at least from a constitutional standpoint, was that the cops didn't have a search warrant. They got one later, before they seized the boxes of pseudoephedrine, stripped lithium batteries, and other meth-making materials, while the alleged meth cooks waited around in handcuffs, but by then they'd already waltzed through the home uninvited. They neglected to mention this on their warrant application, identifying a confidential informant as their only source of information.

Wehrenberg's lawyers argued during materials that the seized materials had been taken illegally and shouldn't be allowed as evidence. The motion was denied -- the trial court cited federal "independent source doctrine," which allows illegally seized evidence a third party told them about beforehand -- and Wehrenberg pleaded guilty to one count of possession and one count of intent to manufacture, getting five years in prison.

The Second Court of Appeals in Fort Worth wasn't so eager to overlook what appeared to be a clear case of police misconduct and overturned the lower court's ruling.

But it's the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals that has the final say, and last week they agreed with the trial court. In a majority opinion, Judge Elsa Alcala wrote that, while Texas' "exclusionary rule" bans illegally seized evidence from trial, federal precedent dictates that it can be introduced if it was first confirmed by an independent source.

Grits for Breakfast's Scott Henson, who first reported the case, isn't sure how significant the decision will prove to be on the ground.

"But the actions of police in the case don't pass the smell test," he writes. "If their informant was so credible, why not go to the judge for a search warrant in the 3-4 hours before their illegal entry? The judge was available in the middle of the night, so there's little basis to believe they couldn't have gotten it earlier. And why conceal the fact that they'd already swept the house and detained the suspects in the search warrant application if everything was on the up and up?"

He has a kindred spirit in CCA Judge Lawrence Meyers, who was the only justice to dissent. As Meyers wrote, "it is obvious to me that this search warrant was obtained based upon the officers' unlawful entry into [Wehrenberg]'s residence."

Quote:

There was more than enough time to secure a search warrant before the officers' intrusion into the premises, but they deliberately chose not to attempt to obtain it until after they had conducted the unlawful entry. Further, had the officers entered the home and found the occupants only baking cupcakes, the officers would not have bothered to then obtain the warrant at all. It was only after unlawfully entering and finding suspicious activity that they felt the need to then secure the warrant in order to cover their tracks and collect the evidence without the taint of their entry.



In addition, Meyers argues that the confidential informant's report that Wehrenberg was "fixing to" cook meth wasn't independent evidence but a prediction of a future crime. The majority's decision, he writes, means that "search warrants may now be based on predictions of the commission of future crimes," which is an uncomfortable concept to say the least.

Update on December 19: Lisa McMinn, the attorney who prosecuted the appeals case on behalf of the state, takes issue with Meyers' opinion. Only natural, given that that's her job, but she says Meyers is mistaken on a matter of fact.

The only issue before the Court of Criminal Appeals was the search warrant. The search warrant wasn't based on the "fixing to cook methamphetamine" statement-- only on the chemicals the confidential informant had previously seen at the house.

"The search warrant wasn't based on the "fixing to cook methamphetamine" statement-- only on the chemicals the confidential informant had previously seen at the house," McMinn writes.

She quotes from the search warrant.

Quote:

The source further detailed, that within the past 72 hours, the source personally observe the suspected parties in possession of certain chemicals with intent to manufacture a controlled substance....The sourse detailed personally observing the suspected parties involved in the preparatory stages of the illicit manufacturing of the controlled substance methamphetamine.



The source reported seeing meth-making chemicals and "illicit laboratory items" like ammonia, rock salt, lithium batteries, clear tubing, pseudoephedrine, funnels, possible drain cleaner containing sulfuric acid, at Wehrenberg's house.

Quote:

Further your Affiant relays that within the past 72 hours, the source personally observed the suspected parties in possession of a useable amount of methamphetamine at the suspected place.




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibletrampis
mad hatter
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3,545
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: Ythan]
    #19291973 - 12/18/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

First rule of cooking meth (or doing anything else illegal) is you don't talk about cooking meth.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblevinsue
Grand Old Fart
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ) Flag
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: Ythan]
    #19292405 - 12/18/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Judge Lawrence Meyers said:...In addition, Meyers argues that the confidential informant's report that Wehrenberg was "fixing to" cook meth...




They always be "fixing" to do sumpin' down there in Texas... :hank::bobbyhill: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSynthe
Gatorade me, bitch!
Male

Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
Loc: Three bags of Funyuns Flag
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: vinsue]
    #19293199 - 12/18/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Quote:

Judge Lawrence Meyers said:...In addition, Meyers argues that the confidential informant's report that Wehrenberg was "fixing to" cook meth...




They always be "fixing" to do sumpin' down there in Texas... :hank::bobbyhill: . . . :peace:



They be fixin to buy sum 10-cent colas and 15 gallin hats when they lynchin tom robinson fo justice


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: Synthe]
    #19293845 - 12/18/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yet another reason I would never want to live in texas.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineParafaragaramus
Conquistador
Male User Gallery


Registered: 01/21/13
Posts: 446
Last seen: 2 months, 22 days
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19294851 - 12/18/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"All the Troubles of the World" by Isaac Asimov
Great short story by one of my favorite authors.
Written in 1958 and I think it goes hand in hand with this story.
You might be able to find it online and it doesn't take very long to read. I would definitely recommend it and any of his other short stories/novellas.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeemstar
Doctor Deemstar
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/11/12
Posts: 883
Loc: The void Flag
Last seen: 15 days, 17 hours
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19294865 - 12/18/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lovely now pigs can walk into anyone's home with the help of a "confidential informant."


--------------------
Gnome-miii-odd
JAH!!! Pasta-far-eye!:bigblunt:
R.I.P. Georgie poor G
A.K.A. Jorgon Lucy


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBig_Dave
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/07/13
Posts: 393
Loc: DC burbs
Last seen: 5 months, 14 days
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: Deemstar]
    #19294986 - 12/18/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In texas....    for now.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineniteman

Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1,050
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: Ythan]
    #19294991 - 12/18/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This is screwed up but I'm honestly not surprised when I read my home state is infringing on an individuals rights . It is sad because I love where I live and it is an diverse and immensely beautiful state but it is so backwards in so many ways that sometimes I think it will always be this way. Everyone who reads this should know that most people here are normal individuals who don't have a bigoted bone in their body and they also feel the law enforcement and politicians are seriously overstepping their boudaries. It is hard for someone who doesn't live here to understand the level of corruption and double standards that drive our justice and prison systems.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: Ythan]
    #19297310 - 12/19/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This strikes me as a clear cut case of a warrantless search. A CI's tip is plenty to knock and talk and ask to have a look around, or perhaps even to get a warrant in some jurisdictions. These Texans did neither, they just stormed the place in a warrantless raid and only bothered to pretend to follow the law after the fact. This goes beyond Texas laws and standards because it violates the United States constitution requirement for a warrant. The logical appeal is to a Federal court which should set this man free.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
OTD God-King
 User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,505
Loc: Uncanny Valley
Re: In Texas, Search Warrants Can Now Be Based on a "Prediction of a Future Crime" [Re: Ythan]
    #19297527 - 12/19/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The title is misleading.  This case isn't about a "prediction of future crime."  It's not really a significant case at all from a jurisprudence standpoint.  The case simply stands for the proposition that the federal "independent source doctrine" applies in Texas.  That's about it.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.

Ask an Attorney

Fuck the Amish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Warrant explains Pandora's Box raid motamanM 3,317 6 04/22/03 02:36 PM
by mycophat
* High electric bill gets mom's house searched for pot grow carbonhoots 3,447 16 04/26/04 03:30 PM
by Tremor1127
* Judge Rules Mushroom Search Legal AnnoA 1,452 0 04/06/04 05:07 PM
by Anno
* Cops Searching Michael Jackson's Ranch motamanM 776 0 11/18/03 11:42 AM
by motaman
* Highway drug searches back in court again motamanM 2,742 3 06/15/03 11:26 PM
by zandorf
* Woman Dies After Police Mistakenly Raid Her Apartment motamanM 2,640 3 05/18/03 05:27 AM
by Revelation
* Sydney, Australia: Dogs to search for drugs on most trains AnnoA 1,042 0 04/26/04 04:19 AM
by Anno
* LANDLORD ORDERS SEARCHES FOR DRUGS motamanM 2,017 4 07/09/03 05:19 AM
by Sev

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, veggie, Alan Rockefeller, Mostly_Harmless
1,545 topic views. 0 members, 11 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.