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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19290771 - 12/17/13 09:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
That's not a SGFC with out perlite, also I never heard of "improved pf tek" but I can't see what the improvement could be.




As I've stated before, I'm noobish. :-) I assume that the SG in SGFC means "shot gun". Correct? I was just guessing about what "shot gun" actually meant. Either way, that picture is a close approximation of my current setup with a couple of exceptions already noted above.

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
You definitely need to fan mushrooms love fresh air. Also your humidity is kinda low.  I keep mine over 90 at all times.  I'm not trying to be a dick but the tek your using sounds kinda bunk. You should look at some of the teks on this site.





Also, as I stated in the short paragraph above the picture I posted, the fruiting chamber I posted a picture of isn't exactly my current setup. So the humidity in that picture is not the humidity I currently have. You may also notice, that I said, "Also, I've placed a wet paper towel in the chamber (off to one side) to increase humidity, which worked like a charm." It was right there, with the picture. I'm also not trying to be a dick, but if you take a minute to scan entire thread, you'll see that we've covered where I'm getting my "improved" PF Tek from. It's not bunk just because you've never heard of it. :-)


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19290876 - 12/17/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just cause you have holes in your tub does not mean its a SGFC. A proper SGFC has 4" of wet perlite, 1/4" holes in a 2" grid pattern on all six sides with the chamber elevated a few inches. If you decide to go off and use an experimental unproven tek then there really isn't anything anyone can do to help you. If you want fruits, build a proper SGFC, and do the pf tek the way it was meant to be done.

From looking at what you have posted I can tell you that that setup will probably have low RH and low FAE which will yield crap results. Since that is not what you actually have this is just a guess, but from what you have described I'm gonna bet that you will have crap results.


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19290939 - 12/17/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Almost looks like an enoki set up


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: cronicr]
    #19290966 - 12/17/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The 'improved pf tek' was published in a 2006 book on mushroom growing.

I'm sorry man but that is really old info. Put some wet perlite in the chamber (4 - 5 inches) and pop the cakes out of the jar, dunk them in water over night and then roll them in vermiculite. Put them back in the chamber on a small piece of foil.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


Edited by elasticaltiger (12/17/13 10:48 PM)


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19290984 - 12/17/13 10:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
The 'improved pf tek' was published in a 2006 book on mushroom growing.

I'm sorry man but that is really old info.



:themoreyouknow:


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OfflineEthos
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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19291711 - 12/18/13 03:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Just cause you have holes in your tub does not mean its a SGFC. A proper SGFC has 4" of wet perlite, 1/4" holes in a 2" grid pattern on all six sides with the chamber elevated a few inches. If you decide to go off and use an experimental unproven tek then there really isn't anything anyone can do to help you. If you want fruits, build a proper SGFC, and do the pf tek the way it was meant to be done.

From looking at what you have posted I can tell you that that setup will probably have low RH and low FAE which will yield crap results. Since that is not what you actually have this is just a guess, but from what you have described I'm gonna bet that you will have crap results.




I feel like I'm just repeating myself. While I know that everyone's intention is to be helpful, and everyone is, to an extent, what's not helpful is when people make assumptions. I'm right here. Why not just ask me to clarify something rather than make assumptions? If you're not familiar with the modification of the PF technique, don't make suggestions before you ask me some questions. I may be a noob, but I'm happy to answer questions, if I can.

Now, getting more specific to what you said, Pasywhyte, my setup is NOT experimental. And I've said this many times in this thread. My setup and technique is directly from a book. I've talked about the book and listed the authors. Even if you've never heard of the book and the authors, the book was well-reviewed. And personally, I think it's well-written and I like the book, even though I still have some questions.

Here's a short quote from the book:

*  *  *

"At this point in the original PF Tek, the "cakes" of mycelium are knocked out of the jars and placed upside down on a bed of moistened perlite at the bottom of a clear container such as an aquarium or a plastic storage bin, which is covered to maintain high humidity levels. The fruiting chamber is placed beneath a light source (fluorescent grow lights connected to a timer or even a brightly lit window). The cover is removed once or twice a daily, and the cakes are fanned by hand to remove built-up CO2, then misted with water from a hand spray bottle. In time, primorida form on the outer surface of the cake and eventually mature into full-sized mushrooms.

"In our 'improved' PF Tek, we leave the substrate in the jar, and mushrooms fruit only from the top surface of the jar. This serves a number of purposes. One, it eliminates the need for elaborate and messy tubs of perlite. Instead, the jars are placed into any clear enclosed container, or even a plastic bag, perforated to allow gas exchange. Two, the need for high ambient humidity is reduced, because the top layer of pure vermiculite acts as a casing layer, holding a reservoir of water that the developing fruits can draw upon."

*  *  *

Obviously, it goes on and explains more about the reason for this modification. With posting this short quote, I hope everyone will:

A) Quit making assumptions about this technique. If you're not familiar with it, it's okay. You're not a bad person. :-)
B) Quit assuming that my humidity is too low, especially if you're not familiar with the modified PF Tek. Ask questions first.
C) Quit trash-talking this technique. Just because it's not the more common technique that you might use or be familiar with, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or that it's a bad technique, or that it doesn't work.

Alright....moving along....

Does anyone have any further suggestions or observations?


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19291718 - 12/18/13 03:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
The 'improved pf tek' was published in a 2006 book on mushroom growing.

I'm sorry man but that is really old info. Put some wet perlite in the chamber (4 - 5 inches) and pop the cakes out of the jar, dunk them in water over night and then roll them in vermiculite. Put them back in the chamber on a small piece of foil.





Really old info? If you call a few years old "really old" then don't use the technique you suggested to me because it predates the modified technique I'm currently using...the one that was published in that book in 2006. So, thanks, I'll stick to this more recent technique rather than the older standard PF Tek for now. ;-)


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19291770 - 12/18/13 04:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Oh god this is painful. Let me be more specific. That FRUITING CHAMBER IS OUT OF DATE.  Nobody uses a damp paper towel anymore. I know you read it in a published book. But that may as well have been published eons ago.  Let me repeat myself. NOBODY USES THAT TECHNIQUE THE WAY YOU'VE DESCRIBED IT.

The shotgun fruiting chamber in it's current incarnation is more recent than 2006, at least in the form it takes now.  Please please for the love of god we are trying to help you. That book is out of date. The moist towel isn't doing anything for your humidity.  There is no reason to cover the sides of the cakes, you are only preventing the mycelium from harnessing light from all sides.  You are not preventing side pins.  You are setting yourself up for shitty results.  You are not getting fresh air exchange without the proper amount of perlite in the chamber. You have not created a proper dynamic airflow. 

Can someone please back me up here?  Where the fuck are you notahacker420 when I need you?

But what the fuck do I know.  Do whatever the fuck you want and come back here asking us what went wrong when you're not satisfied with your results.

P.S.  If, in 7 years, a child can be born, then learn to walk, read, do cartwheels, tell jokes etc... Then IMAGINE what we could have learned about mycelium in the same amount of time with an exponentially growing community running independent tests of different methods from all over the world.

7 years may as well be 700.  For all we know, four years from now people will be telling us the shotgun fruiting chamber is out of date but it sure as shit won't be in favor a wet towel.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


Edited by elasticaltiger (12/18/13 04:10 AM)


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19291774 - 12/18/13 04:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

At this point in the original PF Tek, the "cakes" of mycelium are knocked out of the jars and placed upside down on a bed of moistened perlite at the bottom of a clear container such as an aquarium or a plastic storage bin, which is covered to maintain high humidity levels. The fruiting chamber is placed beneath a light source (fluorescent grow lights connected to a timer or even a brightly lit window). The cover is removed once or twice a daily, and the cakes are fanned by hand to remove built-up CO2, then misted with water from a hand spray bottle. In time, primorida form on the outer surface of the cake and eventually mature into full-sized mushrooms.




By the way, this does NOT describe the currently accepted PF Tek.  There is no covering. The quote of yours doesn't mention holes all over.  When the perlite in the bottom is COMBINED with the holes all over it creates passive fresh air exchange. When you mist and fan the cakes it promotes evaporation off the substrate WHICH IS NOW KNOWN TO BE ONE OF THE TOP PINNING TRIGGERS NEXT TO FULL COLONIZATION AND FRESH AIR.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


Edited by elasticaltiger (12/18/13 04:13 AM)


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19291843 - 12/18/13 04:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ethos said:
I'm not sure everyone commenting is familiar with the "Improved PF Tek" that's outlined in the book I mentioned above. I'm not doing the typical PF technique. I'm not dunking and rolling my cakes and then placing them on perlite for growing. With the modified or "Improved" PF technique, this isn't required, neither is fanning the cakes. In fact, this technique is designed so that you don't have to use perlite and it's made to be simpler than the typical PF Technique.

Has anyone here tried this specific technique successfully? I feel like if I start using methods designed for the perlite grow chambers, I'm going to be mixing my methods. I'm thinking I should stick with one method, but what do I know? This is my first grow and I'm getting mixed messages.

Since I'm leaving the cakes in the jars during fruiting, and I'm restricting the growing to the top surface of the exposed casing layer, I don't think I should be fanning, since the book doesn't talk about needing to do this with this version of PF Tek.

I'm a noob, so I'm also easily confused. So...PE is harder to grow...PE is NOT harder to grow....??? Arrrgh!

Thoughts? Comments?




Now to answer your questions you've posted.  But it's hard to do since you're so determined to go by your book.

No, no one has experience with that method because no one uses it.

Some people say PE is harder to grow. Some people get lucky. For every successful PE grow on cakes you will find two unsuccessful grows on cakes.  When spawning to bulk substrate it is documented that success is more common at least in terms of shroomery threads.

Your humidity is low. Maybe the book told you that 75% was acceptable but the standard these days is 99%.

There should be no standing water in your jars. This creates a reservoir for bacteria to grow.

You should mist when the cakes look dry.  After misting you should always fan to promote evaporation.  Your book didn't talk about it because their understanding of pinning triggers was incomplete.

Yes something is wrong, you are using a method that is not ideal, possibly not ideal for that variety you've chosen to grow.  You have no pins in 16 days which is, while not unheard of, not normal.

One other thing of note.  Your cake is probably super dry.  You didn't dunk it in water for 24 hours (again, this is the standard these days.) your mycelium has used up all the water in the substrate and needs to be rehydrated.  NO misting is not enough to replenish this moisture. You need to dunk it.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19294382 - 12/18/13 05:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
No, no one has experience with that method because no one uses it.





I didn't quote everything because it doesn't matter. I know that you don't speak for everyone, so what you said above is just silly.

I never said that the book suggested a moist paper towel. In fact, I've removed the paper towel. My fruiting chamber is exactly correct for the technique I'm using.

The quote I shared from the book is merely an excerpt. And that specific excerpt wasn't meant to be a step-by-step guide for the traditional PF Tek. You missed the point.

As far as I can tell, everything you said is irrelevant to my situation because it doesn't apply to the technique I'm using. And frankly, I trust published authors from 2006 who have gown mushrooms using this technique.


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19295410 - 12/18/13 10:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)



Quotes about the Improved PF Tek from Trusted cultivators.
Quote:

Shea25 said:
Not really an ideal version of the PF tek by any means. You would get much better results birthing and dunking and rolling the cakes

That should be called the lazy PF tek or Oops I used the wrong type of jars pf tek(in the event you so happened to)




Quote:

hyphae said:
New improved? LOL You guys are right it's a step back not forward.




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
You can fruit that way, but in no way is it 'improved'.  In fact, it's the old school way we did it in the early 80's. It lessens the area available for fruiting, thus reducing yields.
RR




Your method is bunk.

Quote:

Ethos said:
Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
No, no one has experience with that method because no one uses it.





I didn't quote everything because it doesn't matter. I know that you don't speak for everyone, so what you said above is just silly.

I never said that the book suggested a moist paper towel. In fact, I've removed the paper towel. My fruiting chamber is exactly correct for the technique I'm using.




And your technique is bunk.

Quote:

The quote I shared from the book is merely an excerpt. And that specific excerpt wasn't meant to be a step-by-step guide for the traditional PF Tek. You missed the point.




No I didn't, the book reflects a very old understanding of what PF tek used to be. Now it's changed. There are only a handful of threads that mention using the method you've described. Why do you think that is?  Is it because the method your using sucks?

Definitely.


Quote:

As far as I can tell, everything you said is irrelevant to my situation because it doesn't apply to the technique I'm using. And frankly, I trust published authors from 2006 who have gown mushrooms using this technique.




Right because only smart people and experts can publish books and they're definitely never wrong about anything and always give correct information.  Certainly a community of dedicated growers conducting experiments daily has nothing on these geniuses.

You wanted advice.  You wanted to know how to get pins. We are telling you and you're throwing it back in our faces because you want to stick with what you're doing (which obviously isn't working.)

Birth the cakes, dunk them in water over night, roll them in dry vermiculite the next day.  Put 5 inches of wet perlite in that chamber and put the cake in it on a piece of foil.  Mist and fan the cakes.

Do you want mushrooms or not?

One thing you completely ignored from my post is that evaporation of moisture off the substrate is one of the main pinning triggers.  We know this now.  We didn't know it 7 years ago.  The environment you created does not allow this evaporation to occur.

Quit being thick and set yourself up for success.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19295522 - 12/18/13 10:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid: :lol:


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19309820 - 12/21/13 10:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Okay. I'd like to post what I consider to be the conclusion of this thread. So here goes...

For those of you who were trying to be helpful and were civil about it, I sincerely appreciate your help. Just because I hadn't gotten any pinning yet, that didn't mean my method was bad or didn't work. It turned out there was another reason for this and only one person figured it out. In the end, SuperSillyUs was right on target when he said:

Quote:

SuperSillyUs said:
Well, pinning and waiting for pinning is a common theme for anyone involved in this hobby. Sometimes they pin slow sometimes they pin fast. (16 days isn't that long)
Also depends if you let it 'consolidate.' After 100% of the outside is colonized, sometimes the inner core still needs a bit of work.




When I subtracted about 7 days from the time my jar had been in the fruiting chamber to account for the inner core being populated with mycelium, it had only been 9 days at the time I posted the first post of this thread. So I was premature in asking for help, but I didn't know that. And when I asked for help, I started to get some.

I got a lot of advice that mostly didn't apply to my method of growing. But for some reason, a couple people seemed to take it personally that I wasn't willing to use the more common method which was considered, by the God's of Mushroom Growing, to be so obviously better than my out-dated method. So instead of being patient with a noob and fostering fellowship in our wonderful mushroom-growing community, they got rude and unfriendly. Well-played, guys. Way to make a noob feel at-home.

So the "Improved" PF Tek method that I'm using was called "bunk". I was told that nobody uses it because it doesn't work. I was told that it sucks. And the authors of the book I got this method from were basically discredited. I picked the "Improved" PF Tek method because it seemed simpler, cheaper, a little less messy, and seemed to require less effort during the fruiting stage.

With this method...

  • There is no need to birth the cakes - they stay in the jars.
  • There's no need to soak the cakes in water overnight.
  • You don't have to roll them in dry vermiculite.
  • There's no need to prepare perlite and put 5 inches of wet perlite in the fruiting chamber.
  • You don't need to place the cakes on a piece of foil and on top of the wet perlite.
  • There's also no reason to keep high humidity in the fruiting chamber.
  • And lastly, there's no reason to fan the cakes after misting to stimulate pinning.


This method is so much simpler...but we've advanced far beyond this simpler method by today's standards, I am told. Basically, I was told that it's no wonder I wasn't getting any pinning since this method obviously didn't work.

To those of you who said this method sucked and doesn't work and that you obviously know better than the authors of the book who simplified the standard PF Tek method...

You can suck my Penis Envy!! :-)




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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19309825 - 12/21/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

too bad there's only one fruit to suck and we can't all share the harvest:smirk:
best of luck in the future Ethos and be sure to keep posting, new things are not the end of the world maybe you can find ways to make your own tweaks down the road:thumbup:


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: cronicr]
    #19309851 - 12/21/13 10:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
too bad there's only one fruit to suck and we can't all share the harvest:smirk:
best of luck in the future Ethos and be sure to keep posting, new things are not the end of the world maybe you can find ways to make your own tweaks down the road:thumbup:




Thanks, cronicr.  :grin:  I'm in this for the long haul. And I'm just getting started. I have 8 great-looking jars about ready join this lonely jar. And for now, I'm sticking with this method, better or not. It's certainly MUCH simpler, and that's good enough for me right now.

Cheers!


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19309973 - 12/21/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry if I was overly harsh on your methods, I guess I was under the misguided impression that you wanted good results. Since you seem to be happy with the single fruit you got then I guess congratulations are in order. I guess that so many of us are so concerned with yields as the benchmark for success that we forget that there may be other things that people hope to get out of the growing experience.

Hope to see you perfecting your methods and sharing your results going forward. Happy growing :super:


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Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19312761 - 12/22/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's funny how the single fruit he has came from the side of the jar because that was the only place where the environment was right for pinning.

Way to starve your mushrooms of water.

And congratulations. I didn't realize that a single malformed fruit was the result you wanted. My bad.  I'm sorry I questioned your decision.

Over time you're going to learn pretty quickly that this really isn't the hobby for people that want to make everything easier.  But all in good time.


--------------------
First time growing cakes? DON'T make a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber

The Shmuvbox. - The Old TC's Like it :shrug:

Afraid to Start Growing From Your Own Prints? Drop it Like a Tiger!
No Pouring. No Syringes. No Cutting. No flaming. No Contamination. No Bullshit.

"The best thing to do while your waiting is to start more stuff. I usually got so much happening that I have tossed projects simply because I didn't have time for them. -Pastywhite QFT

Pastywhite's Easy Agar Tek (PastyPlates)

Tiger Drop Video Demos By munchauzen

Van Gogh would’ve sold more than one painting if he’d put tigers in them.―Bill Watterson

EZEKIEL 23:20


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Offlinesytar
Radiant
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 381
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19312799 - 12/22/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You should really listen to elasticaltiger and pastywhyte. You're coming off like an arrogant newbie. In the mushroom community seven year old information might as well be 10,000 year old information from cave people banging their heads against rocks. The people you're arguing with have probably read the book you're referring to. Sit down and listen. Not trying to be harsh but srsly they are trying to help and they more or less do speak for everyone here.


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I post from my phone. Excuse the typos and autocorrects.


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OfflineEthos
Beginner
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 24
Last seen: 3 years, 26 days
Re: 16 Days and No Growth [Re: Ethos]
    #19313398 - 12/22/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not a mean person. I try to always treat other's the way I want to be treated--with kindness, patience and understanding. Likewise, if I'm treated in ways I don't approve of, mainly in harsh or aggressive ways, called names or cursed at, etc., then you are the one who has the problem. Not me.

And honestly, if you get frustrated with me because I'm a newb and I seem to be stubborn, then don't bother with me. Seriously.  I would rather not have your help then be treated badly by you. You helping me isn't worth it if you can't do it without getting frustrated with me. YOUR time is more valuable than that as well.

Also, I don't care if you're a GOD of mushroom growing. If you're not a nice person (or if you come off that way), I want nothing to do with you. I don't mean anything bad by that, I don't like to be around people who are like that. Being a God of mushroom growing with years of experience doesn't give anyone the right to be a jerk toward first-time mushroom growers.

Obviously, I'm speaking to everyone in general, not any one person. There's no way for me to express my tone here or my attitude. So what I'm saying may come off the wrong way. If you knew the sincerity with which I am saying this, or if you were to hear me speaking these words, you would know that I am being honest and sincere and I'm not trying in any way to be mean or to anger anyone.

If you can help me and your help comes across with kindness and patience, I'll gladly accept your help. If you are going to get frustrated and be shitty, then just ignore me or leave me alone. I won't be offended. Just go silent and ignore me if you think I'm not worth helping and I'll be cool with that.

I might be too ignorant to know the grand wisdom being imparted to me. I accept that and know that it's probably going to happen a million times before I become wiser and can recognize it. If you can accept that (because it likely happened to you too when you were just starting out), then offer your help. But don't get frustrated when I'm too ignorant to use it.

Good luck to you all with your future growing endeavors. I hope that if our paths cross in the future, it's in a positive light.


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