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OnlineKickleM
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does culture only work with belief?
    #19290541 - 12/17/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If everyone within a culture stops buying into the cultural story, what happens?

This is strictly a thought experiment. I see no way this could ever happen. But I'm curious what others think humans are behind the cultured veneer.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #19290697 - 12/17/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Liberation?


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Invisiblecez
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19290852 - 12/17/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I imagine a new culture..:shrug:


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle] * 4
    #19291051 - 12/17/13 11:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

widespread weirdness ensues.. like unkempt tufts of hair suddenly sprouting from our animal skin, people begin to grow in peculiar ways.. they sway to strange asynchronous tunes, their eyes grow dull and peer off to some impossible distance.

odd runes are left scratched in the dirt, codes tapped out from inside walls, dialects proliferate at an insane pace, entire languages localized to single human beings... it may actually already have happened you guys, and only culture would have us believe anything otherwise


Edited by quinn (12/17/13 11:55 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: quinn]
    #19291674 - 12/18/13 03:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

culture is
a bit like a self winding watch,
in that while it is in action,
it charges its main spring(s).


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19291929 - 12/18/13 05:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Culture works in spite of disbelief.  We have been trained and regimented over so many years, it's habit.  We can try to overcome the habit, but we are more than addicted to a substance.  Other than we must eat more pablum every day in order to be satisfied. 



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Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: LunarEclipse] * 1
    #19292211 - 12/18/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think no matter how disbelieving/rebellious someone may be, they are still buying into substantial elements of their culture.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Brian Jones]
    #19292218 - 12/18/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Right, rebellion is a cultural myth. :haha:  Once you're in you can't get out. :evil:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Icelander]
    #19292261 - 12/18/13 08:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Right, rebellion is a cultural myth. :haha:  Once you're in you can't get out. :evil:






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Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleMr Person
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19292470 - 12/18/13 09:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think it's possible for humans to exist in a cultural vacuum.  It's a fundamental part of what makes us human.  Iconoclasts break with old cultural beliefs all the time and something new always rushes in to fill the void.  As long as humans are alive and communicating with one another there will be some kind of culture created between them.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19292502 - 12/18/13 09:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's like asking what would happen if everyone suddenly stopped using language.  The human brain cannot function at all without a meme-structure to wire it up.  To abandon culture -- really defined as the set of basic ideas of a particular social group -- simply isn't possible, and doesn't make any sense even as a thought experiment.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: quinn]
    #19292553 - 12/18/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

quinn said:
widespread weirdness ensues.. like unkempt tufts of hair suddenly sprouting from our animal skin, people begin to grow in peculiar ways.. they sway to strange asynchronous tunes, their eyes grow dull and peer off to some impossible distance.

odd runes are left scratched in the dirt, codes tapped out from inside walls, dialects proliferate at an insane pace, entire languages localized to single human beings... it may actually already have happened you guys, and only culture would have us believe anything otherwise




Haha that's great man. For the record I speak kicklanese quite well.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #19292667 - 12/18/13 10:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
That's like asking what would happen if everyone suddenly stopped using language.  The human brain cannot function at all without a meme-structure to wire it up.  To abandon culture -- really defined as the set of basic ideas of a particular social group -- simply isn't possible, and doesn't make any sense even as a thought experiment.




Yeah i agree mostly. The point of this thread, for me at least, was to notice that there is no human separate from culture. That there is nothing of note to see aside from culture.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19292724 - 12/18/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

True indeed. Well, doesn't that let us off the hook in a way? We are made what we are before we even know the deed has been done.  Relax and float down stream. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #19292803 - 12/18/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I wonder, where culture does start ? Is belief really needed ? Or can one see an ant hive as cultural as well ?
I mean, there are different human cultures on planet earth, even if diversity even here is falling free fall.
What makes an belief a belief ? Isn't it the surrounding context of the environment combined with genetic urges and abilities ?
I think a belive is a part of imagination, so I wonder if imagination is necessary for culture ? Does an ant has some kind of imagination ?
Oh I wonder...what a wonderful world :sun:


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #19293359 - 12/18/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

klick lekik *thank you*


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dripping with fantasy


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Icelander]
    #19294530 - 12/18/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
True indeed. Well, doesn't that let us off the hook in a way? We are made what we are before we even know the deed has been done.  Relax and float down stream. :satansmoking:




Yeah id say so. Genetics factoring in as they do. I'm not sure where the wiggle room is.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19298033 - 12/19/13 01:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking...what do you mean by "cultural story"? Are you talking about religion, or other forms of culture?  I'm not sure what you're post has to do with "belief," or if you mean belief in a religious way or not.  Could you clarify?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: clam_dude]
    #19299042 - 12/19/13 05:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I mean all forms of culture. I mean belief as faith (in culture as truth).


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19299520 - 12/19/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm still not sure what you mean - are you saying we need "faith" to have culture?

You say you mean "all forms of culture"...that would include art, literature, etc, as well as religion (if you want to call that culture).  So some forms of culture need faith I suppose, and a lot of them don't. 

I'm just not sure what your original point is - what do you mean by "cultural story"?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19299809 - 12/19/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
The point of this thread, for me at least, was to notice that there is no human separate from culture. That there is nothing of note to see aside from culture.




--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19299903 - 12/19/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I was a few years ago when this fully dawned on me.  That was about the time I was also first reading Becker.  I began to really suspect that culture was the perfect shield against death anxiety and a possible reason it would have a stranglehold on our psyche's. 

It's be very :feelsweirdman: ever since.  It was then I really began to question the idea of free will.  All the dominoes started falling and now, for me, nothing is left standing of my old belief systems.  For me it was the beginning of the great depression and I shall not recover easily.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Icelander]
    #19300037 - 12/19/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think it just adds to the pile for me. I went in a different order for landing in the twilight zone but I am here all the same :lol:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Kickle]
    #19301487 - 12/20/13 05:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup: Welcome to the asylum. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4nik8
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Icelander]
    #19301619 - 12/20/13 06:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I stoppped buying into western cult-ural values a couple of years ago. Surprisingly, I encountered far less of a battle than I anticipated. Once I stopped doing because society said I had to and started truely doing what I wanted to, the universe seemed to become a close, supportive friend instead of a place I was trapped. Sure, I still have to work and pay taxes and such, but now it feels more like indulging a playful infant than feeding the greed of evil men. So I suppose that the state of the observer deterimes their manifested experience.


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A wise man once told me: "don't sweat the small stuff, it's all small stuff"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: 4nik8]
    #19301633 - 12/20/13 06:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'll propose this even though I'm pretty sure you'll deny it. 

You are still most involved in your cultural paradigm and likely have no real idea what "you" want to be doing with your life.  You've seen through the surface layer of culture that seems obvious but most of it's influence on you is outside conscious awareness.  You can't escape culture. Once you're in you can't get out. :nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offline4nik8
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Icelander]
    #19302138 - 12/20/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Oh I agree, it is inescapable. But it is possible to choose how you view and deal with it. I totally know what I want to do with my life and take the steps I need to do so. Granted, you have to play the game to an extent. But I know that I can most times bend the rules and other times break them. The universe seems to be sympathetic to my cause and while I face challenges still they are only there to test my resolve and to keep me motivated. You can be imprisoned and choose to be free anyway, for no one can subjugate a soul against its will.


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A wise man once told me: "don't sweat the small stuff, it's all small stuff"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: 4nik8]
    #19302317 - 12/20/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

soul?:lol:  Whatever you say.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: 4nik8]
    #19302327 - 12/20/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You seem to be guessing at what the future holds while full of expectations for it to turn out in your favor. That strikes me as a dangerous game to play and what the majority of the population does. It might work out for you though as it does for some. Odds are against you however.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineabsols
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: Icelander]
    #19302433 - 12/20/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

it is more about the easy ways of freedom which are revealed being opposed to freedom truth and against it

cultural life is one of those ways

the most common one is evil way of being free, like to use anything or any other living being to pretend knowing everything, then act free of everything consciously

this is the most disgusting way .. 

another negative way is also something else

the way to pretend being superior conscious, from some knowledge of things, then act in terms of being beyond freedom value.. taking itself too seriously for one superior subject, when barely it can do anything even out of what it knows well

while true freedom is the absolute superiority fact that justify infinite existence as being positive present right

objective existence is only from true freedom value

I know you mean something else here, but I thought to put my 2 cts :cool:


Edited by absols (12/20/13 11:28 AM)


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Offline4nik8
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Re: does culture only work with belief? [Re: absols]
    #19304592 - 12/20/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You live your way and I'll live mine, we'll compare notes on the other side.


--------------------
A wise man once told me: "don't sweat the small stuff, it's all small stuff"


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