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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
    #19277526 - 12/15/13 02:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Democracy is NOT what the people want. People in general don't want mob rule (democracy).


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Think for yourself, question authority


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InvisibleEchro
Psychedelic Nihilist
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
    #19277527 - 12/15/13 02:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
What do people think of a free market as a means of non-violent democracy?




I think it's the shit.

"The capitalist system of production is an economic democracy in which every penny gives a right to vote. The consumers are the sovereign people. The capitalists, the entrepreneurs, and the farmers are the people’s mandatories. If they do not obey, if they fail to produce, at the lowest possible cost, what the consumers are asking for, they lose their office. Their task is service to the consumer. Profit and loss are the instruments by means of which the consumers keep a tight rein on all business activities." ~Ludwig Von Mises


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
    #19277535 - 12/15/13 02:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Echro said:
Quote:

Shins said:
What do people think of a free market as a means of non-violent democracy?




I think it's the shit.

"The capitalist system of production is an economic democracy in which every penny gives a right to vote. The consumers are the sovereign people. The capitalists, the entrepreneurs, and the farmers are the people’s mandatories. If they do not obey, if they fail to produce, at the lowest possible cost, what the consumers are asking for, they lose their office. Their task is service to the consumer. Profit and loss are the instruments by means of which the consumers keep a tight rein on all business activities." ~Ludwig Von Mises





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Think for yourself, question authority


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Invisibler72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 1,327
Loc: Chicago Flag
Re: Define Democracy [Re: psyconaught]
    #19277544 - 12/15/13 02:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
Democracy is NOT what the people want. People in general don't want mob rule (democracy).




You're twisting what I'm saying. (And what you're saying)

By definition, Democracy is what the people want. You even gave that in your definition. It's a government by the people. The majority being the people.

If they don't want that, cool. That's a whole different matter. That doesn't change the definition of democracy. This thread was define democracy. I was pointing out that what people are attacking as democracy isn't true democracy by democracy's definition. That's it.


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
    #19277558 - 12/15/13 02:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

r72rock said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
Democracy is NOT what the people want. People in general don't want mob rule (democracy).




You're twisting what I'm saying. (And what you're saying)

By definition, Democracy is what the people want. You even gave that in your definition. It's a government by the people. The majority being the people.

If they don't want that, cool. That's a whole different matter. That doesn't change the definition of democracy. This thread was define democracy. I was pointing out that what people are attacking as democracy isn't true democracy by democracy's definition. That's it.




I See your point :smile:


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: Define Democracy [Re: r72rock]
    #19278780 - 12/15/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

By definition, Democracy is what the people want.



The problem comes with defining "the people". In Democracies, it is the majority. Or, at least the majority of those who can be bothered to vote. Therefore it is mob rule. Whoever has the biggest gang wins.

Democracy is an absolutely terrible way to run a society. The best way to run a society is as a constitutionally-limited republic, always assuming the constitution is as good as (or better than) the constitution of the United States at protecting individual rights, especially property rights.

The people charged with manning the various government positions can be elected through a democratic process, though. That is certainly an acceptable way to fill them.


Phred


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OfflineAEL1911
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Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 342
Loc: Japan
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Phred]
    #19287107 - 12/17/13 04:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

2 wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.


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Check out some fungi in Japan!


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OfflineDrugsRGood
Analytical Anarchist
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Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 689
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Define Democracy [Re: AEL1911]
    #19288343 - 12/17/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

'Majority rule' don't work in mental institutions.
Sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions.

--Idiots Are Taking Over, NOFX

I love that line in that song, it describes democracy and its failure beautifully.


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Life is an adventure; not knowing what's ahead brings a great sense of anticipation; and meeting women is the reward.


Edited by DrugsRGood (12/17/13 12:26 PM)


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: Define Democracy [Re: DrugsRGood]
    #19288351 - 12/17/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know why Americans always want to spread such a shitty system all over the world. Like wtf.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineDrugsRGood
Analytical Anarchist
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Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 689
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
    #19288363 - 12/17/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They say "Power to the people".

Yea right!


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Life is an adventure; not knowing what's ahead brings a great sense of anticipation; and meeting women is the reward.


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
    #19289526 - 12/17/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I don't know why Americans always want to spread such a shitty system all over the world. Like wtf.




America isn't even a Democracy. It's a Constitutional Republic. We have Democratic elections, but we are a Republic


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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Simplicitry]
    #19290388 - 12/17/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know, so why don't they try to spread republicanism around the world?

:/


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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OfflineAEL1911
Stranger
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Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 342
Loc: Japan
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
    #19332169 - 12/27/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
I don't know why Americans always want to spread such a shitty system all over the world. Like wtf.



I don't know what Americans you have met but I want to spread anarchy.
Of course being an American citizen is being a player in a game, in a land with imaginary borders and some f'ed up rules.
Everyone's world is full of anarchy but governments and media have convinced many to believe in lies and deceptions.


--------------------
Check out some fungi in Japan!


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
Through Brass
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Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Shins]
    #19334188 - 12/27/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Because it's much easier to vote yourself someone elses swag than work for your own, duh


--------------------
Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between.

pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold.

AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
Re: Define Democracy [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19334572 - 12/27/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Most of you people are absolutely wrong about the American system.  The American system as a constitutional republic with a limited Federal Government is an excellent system made to prevent abuse.


What's fucked up is THE PEOPLE HAVE ALLOWED a large number of turds to float to the top of the bowl and abuse the system.  By turds I mean--Obama,Boehner,Paul Ryan,Mitch McConnel,Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid,GW Bush--you get the picture.

The only way to change it is to get those fuckers out.  How?  By writing them?  LOL, as if that is going to do anything.  No.  Go to your neighbors, talk to everyone you know and convince them that the assholes need to be thrown out. 

That's the only way THE PEOPLE are going to take the country back.

And when I hear poltiicians crying about 'people wanting to cut government' fucking A i want to cut government.  Cut government and make THE PEOPLE the source of power, not a bunch of asshole lawyers in suits who give your money away to keep themselves in power. 

YOU are either in favor of The Government and the people now in power, or you are against it and FOR THE PEOPLE.  Being against it means you cant kiss the Ass of a democratic or republican and think they are going to fix it. They aren't.  Both parties shit stinks horribly and its time we get rid of them.


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InvisibleEchro
Psychedelic Nihilist
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
Re: Define Democracy [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19334782 - 12/27/13 10:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
The American system as a constitutional republic with a limited Federal Government is an excellent system made to prevent abuse.




Intentions and outcomes are two very different things. In Theory, and Principle, maybe so, but history does not seem to agree with you here. In the end the Constitution did little to prevent the vast centralization of power we have today. It was a noble experiment however, I will give it that much.


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
Through Brass
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
    #19334808 - 12/27/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I didn't hear no bell


--------------------
Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between.

pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold.

AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 26 days
Re: Define Democracy [Re: Echro]
    #19334856 - 12/27/13 10:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Echro said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
The American system as a constitutional republic with a limited Federal Government is an excellent system made to prevent abuse.




Intentions and outcomes are two very different things. In Theory, and Principle, maybe so, but history does not seem to agree with you here. In the end the Constitution did little to prevent the vast centralization of power we have today. It was a noble experiment however, I will give it that much.





You didnt read my whole post.  The people have the power to fix it.  It's their fault that they allow these assclowns to get away with the abuse.


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InvisibleEchro
Psychedelic Nihilist
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
Re: Define Democracy [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19334868 - 12/27/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I read your whole post. I just happen to have little faith in the efficacy or efficiency of a system that is dependent on the right people supporting it, & the right people running it.

I'd be content with something vastly decentralized in comparison to what we have now, however. There's a picture somewhere of "Jeffersonian America" but I can't seem to find it now.
Lincoln screwed state sovereignty when he abolished State's rights of Secession. It's been interesting hearing about Counties across the country proposing secession, but I have little current optimism about the prospects.


Edited by Echro (12/27/13 11:05 PM)


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OfflineBarack Obama II
Commander in Chief
Male


Registered: 12/25/13
Posts: 54
Loc: Chicago, Illinois Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Define Democracy [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19339440 - 12/28/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Democracy: A dictatorship/hereditary monarchy under the fine and able Obama leadership.


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